To sum up the current state of the deletion topic.

Several users think it is a good idea that every user be able to see a deleted page. The reasons given are 1) transparency (as we claim Wikipedia respects) and 2) possibility to reuse some edits in deleted pages.

As already mentionned, it so happens that some banned users edits are deleted very quickly, without going through the process of vfd. However, I read several times (or saw it myself) that parts of the edits of banned users were good and might be of interest to keep. (see for example for Lir http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-May/003689.html)

I suggested that edits of banned users be kept for a temporary time, either in a boilerplate, or in a blanked page history...but for the reasons given by Eloquence and others, I see this proposition is not good (too much strain on sysop cleaning, not fitting the requirements of either soft and hard banning). So, this option can not be kept. And even if the edits might be good, it is probably better to wait for a while until picking the stuff up (until the vandal is gone) and perhaps to put it back under another author name.

Consequently, because of the good arguments given against keeping stuff in the article space for longer than necessary, the only option left, is, to permit users to see the content of a deleted article.

In short, I think if Wikipedia wants to stay open and transparent, the deleted stuff should be visible. That is part of a feedback control which is important in every system.

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Three persons expressed negativity toward this proposition.

Jimbo and JeLuf indicated it was not a good idea because copyrighted material should not be seen from outsiders. Eloquence indicated it was not good - probably for this copyright reason, as well as for the reason it has been already discussed ad nauseum (where ?). (see http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004028.html http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004132.html http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004143.html)

As far as copyrighted material is concerned, I plainly agree it should not been seen by others than trusted people (hence, developers and sysops). I agree it would be potentially very damaging for Wikipedia that such an information be visible by others, as it could lead to legal troubles.

Then, I agree it is not a good idea that non-sysop users see material that has been deleted because of cp infringements.

However, as Toby mentionned, copyrighted material is *not* the only material deleted. Far from it. No good reasons were, till now, given to justify other-than-cp deleted pages not to be seen by non-sysop users.

Besides, quite a number of people, including Toby, Martin, Brion, Oliver, and I, think it would be good that users see deleted pages (See http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-May/003490.html or http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2003-May/003755.html or http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004136.html http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004154.html

Consequently, I think the solution is that somehow, deletions for cp issues and for other issues are just separated in the big black void (sorry, the deletion area of the db). This could be made possible if, when deleting the page, the sysop was somehow proposed to check a little box (say), which would automatically classify the deleted page in the cp category.

Then, the deletion log would be grossly separated in two types, cp stuff and other stuff. (I also think it would nice to separate per namespaces : deletion of encyclopedia article, deletion of users pages, deletion of meta pages).

When accessing the special:page undeleted, all the stuff with cp material will be invisible (as now) from non-sysop users, while other stuff (non copyrighted) is visible.

On top of that, I also think it is quite weird to keep forever in this deletion db, all this copyrighted material (or porn pictures perhaps :-)). Such a separation might give the developer the possibility to run a deletion query from time to time (such as "deletion of all copyrighted articles been in the deletion db for more than 2 months"). Hence, Wikipedia liability toward cp, would be reduced. (see also on similar topic http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004121.html and http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2003-May/004140.html)

Anthere

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