Hello!
When i talked yesterday on IRC with another wikipedian, we had both the same opinion that there's a problem with the communication, and staying up-to-date.
The problem is that people don't know for example, a feature had been enabled or similar (high priority?) news concerning Wikimedia. Also, most Wikis aren't up to date: They don't know for example, that it is also possible to block logged in people using the IP - Ban interface. Another problem is, that Wikis also couldn't know where they have to do requests like: Request for Permission, for switching the logo path, for queries, for updating a LanguageXX.php. Possibly they don't know there are IRC Channels and Mailing Lists, too. I would purpose two possible ways to change that, but feel free to purpose other ways :)
1) "Reactivating" the Announce-l Mailinglist. As far, as there are a lot of changed going on, (creation of language specific wikibooks, quote for example), it'd be a good idea to have this ML working, as far as people could post the announces there and people interested in the changes could suscribe to that list and get informed.
2) Creating a new Special page for all wikis (or similar), called "Useful_Links" or similar ( I haven't found a good title yet ;) ). People could read there where they can found the IRC Chat, where they can found specific mailing lists, and where they can post request (for permission, logo, query, etc), (Embassies?), etc. As far, people would have a good reference page and would fastly find a way where they can report a problem to the community, request and communicate within the community and with other users.
These are just ideas how to do that. If you have another idea, feel free to add it :).
--
Important issue about the mailing lists:
Are there regular contributors of zh: (!), ar:, ta:, sv: (!), da: (!), and pl: who would be interested to do list administrationsfor on of the language specific mailing lists for their wikis? I would expain them what and how to do. Please contact me at fire at kopfrechnung.de if you are interested, thanks!
Sincerly yours, Ronny
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:48:23 +0200, Ronny Raschkowan ronny@kopfrechnung.de wrote:
Hello!
When i talked yesterday on IRC with another wikipedian, we had both the same opinion that there's a problem with the communication, and staying
< up-to-date... (high priority?) news concerning Wikimedia.
Hi Fire, thanks for posting this. It /is/ sometimes hard to track high-priority news and changes, including changes in where devs/editors hang out, how to get things done, and how to be most effective as a contributor.
Another problem is, that Wikis also couldn't know where they have to do requests like: Request for Permission, for switching the logo path, for queries, for updating a LanguageXX.php. Possibly they don't know there are IRC Channels and Mailing Lists, too.
Or, even if they know they exist, they don't know how important these channels are.
As for your suggestions:
1) Announcement mailing list
We should definitely set up / reactivate an announcement mailing list that is read-only (restricted posting; one could suggest items for the next announcement, but couldn't respond to an announcement via the same list.) and low-traffic (one or two announcements a week, save for rare circumstances). I want to be able to subscribe to a list that I automatically flag as 'urgent' when new mail comes in.
2) A special page for coordination & communication
This sound as though it would make a better meta: page, with translations into many languages, than a Special: page on each wiki. I think such a page should link to each of the tasks one can accomplish on Meta: and IRC and mailing lists... and then link to something like [[m:All Wikimedia projects]].
[[m:All Wikimedia projects]] would in turn contain the kind of information currently on [[m:Wikipedia languages]] and [[m:Embassy]] and [[m:Administrators of various Wikipedias]], in tabular form. This extended project-list would include links to the main community pages, and the active contacts, for each local project. Elian has been talking about what such a page might look like...
3) Announcement translation and multilingualism
Let's say there are X languages interested in keeping up with/translating all announcements, perhaps having their own language-specific mailing list.
Instead of setting up announcement mailing lists in every language, which might involve delays for a moderated list, how about having very brief announcement emails, with a minimal bit of text and a link to a multilingual announcement page on meta:; the blurb would be translated into all X langs in the email (and if translators for one of those langs were unavailable for an urgent announcement, every interested recipient would at least know right away that something was going on).
The [[m:Announcements]] page could just be a reverse-chronological list of new announcements, translated into as many languages as possible (more than just X; contributors in other langs would more sporadically come and translate the page).
Discussions of new proposed announcements, and translations of the email blurbs, could take place on [[m:Talk:Announcements]], where some community consensus could be reached before adding non-urgent announcements to the list.
--:-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...] +sj+
Hi Fire, thanks for posting about this.
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:48:23 +0200, Ronny Raschkowan ronny@kopfrechnung.de wrote:
Hello!
When i talked yesterday on IRC with another wikipedian, we had both the same opinion that there's a problem with the communication, and staying
< up-to-date... (high priority?) news concerning Wikimedia.
It /is/ sometimes hard to track high-priority news and changes, including changes in where devs/editors hang out, how to get things done, and how to be most effective as a contributor.
Another problem is, that Wikis also couldn't know where they have to do requests like: Request for Permission, for switching the logo path, for queries, for updating a LanguageXX.php. Possibly they don't know there are IRC Channels and Mailing Lists, too.
Or, even if they know they exist, they don't know how important these channels are.
As for your suggestions:
1) Announcement mailing list
We should definitely set up / reactivate an announcement mailing list that is read-only (restricted posting; one could suggest items for the next announcement, but couldn't respond to an announcement via the same list.) and low-traffic (one or two announcements a week, save for rare circumstances). I want to be able to subscribe to a list that I automatically flag as 'urgent' when new mail comes in.
2) A special page for coordination & communication
This sound as though it would make a better meta: page, with translations into many languages, than a Special: page on each wiki. I think such a page should link to each of the tasks one can accomplish on Meta: and IRC and mailing lists... and then link to something like [[m:All Wikimedia projects]].
[[m:All Wikimedia projects]] would in turn contain the kind of information currently on [[m:Wikipedia languages]] and [[m:Embassy]] and [[m:Administrators of various Wikipedias]], in tabular form. This extended project-list would include links to the main community pages, and the active contacts, for each local project. Elian has been talking about what such a page might look like...
3) Announcement translation and multilingualism
Let's say there are X languages interested in keeping up with/translating all announcements, perhaps having their own language-specific mailing list.
Instead of setting up announcement mailing lists in every language, which might involve delays for a moderated list, how about having very brief announcement emails, with a minimal bit of text and a link to a multilingual announcement page on meta:; the blurb would be translated into all X langs in the email (and if translators for one of those langs were unavailable for an urgent announcement, every interested recipient would at least know right away that something was going on).
The [[m:Announcements]] page could just be a reverse-chronological list of new announcements, translated into as many languages as possible (more than just X; contributors in other langs would more sporadically come and translate the page).
Discussions of new proposed announcements, and translations of the email blurbs, could take place on [[m:Talk:Announcements]], where some community consensus could be reached before adding non-urgent announcements to the list.
--:-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...] +sj+
- Announcement mailing list
- A special page for coordination & communication
- Announcement translation and multilingualism
Related to this, just want to make sure everyone knows about these two pages for announcements and goings-on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Goings-on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Goings-on
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 05:47:04 +0800, Andrew Lih andrew.lih@gmail.com wrote:
- Announcement mailing list
- A special page for coordination & communication
- Announcement translation and multilingualism
Related to this, just want to make sure everyone knows about these two pages for announcements and goings-on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Goings-on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Goings-on
Not to mention the other sidebar-linked page, Wikimedia News!
Goings-on is the kind of overview page that might list a few News items and the most recent Announcements, but also lists a lot of other passing events and discussions on meta: and on specific projects. Very friendly, widely useful.
Announcements about major fundraising drives (we need the following translated in the next 12 hours), server downtime, critical votes or deadlines, or widespread changes in functionality, would be appropriate for a dedicated announcement-list.
Re: Anthere's idea of having a "New announcement" blip similar to the "You have new messages" blip at the top of every page -- we could potentially trigger such a blip on non-minor edits to such an Announcements page.
--:-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...] +sj+
Sj wrote:
Related to this, just want to make sure everyone knows about these two pages for announcements and goings-on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Goings-on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Goings-on
Not to mention the other sidebar-linked page, Wikimedia News!
That is part of the problem. When there are several WikiMedia news channels the compete whit there self. There should be one source page whit WikiMedia wide news. That page can be translated by all the WikiMedia wikis who care.
That page should be http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News
It's setup is easy. A date and some news. That is easy to translate. I do it for NL. The setup of "goings-on" is not so good for translating. To complicated.
"Wikimedia News" should include to news no on "Meta goings-on". Also now there is a lot of non-news on "Wikimedia News". Wikipedia is now so big it is no news anymore that some wikipedia now has X articles. That type of news should be limited as much possible to big steps of a wiki. A new wiki, the first 10 000 articles, 100 000 articles, 500 000 arcticles, ..
The Announce-l list is a good idea. I (know as "Giskart" in those days) have done a attempt to use it some years ago without succes.
See; http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/announce-l/2002-November/thread.html
Maybe the time is there now for this. But but for it to work people need to be disciplined enough to send the information to the correct list the correct way.
Now I see on Wikipedia-l still a lot of postings that should be on WikiEN-l. Even this tread does not belong here. The stuff about the Arbitration Committee is for wikiEN-l and talk about inter WikiMedia communciation is for Foundation-l
Walter Vermeir wrote:
That is part of the problem. When there are several WikiMedia news channels the compete whit there self. There should be one source page whit WikiMedia wide news. That page can be translated by all the WikiMedia wikis who care.
That page should be http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_News
I disagree.
I think Wikimedia_News should focus on news about Wikimedia for outsiders. While goings-on should focus on our internal kitchen stuff, which is not the business of outside people.
Now, if it is only a question of naming, I do not care, but we should have a page giving news for press, for potential donators and similar people, and this page should absolutely not be the goings on as currently are.
I think most firms have internal and external communication. This is what intranet and extranet are about. This is the same idea. Our internal little problems of organisation are not of interest for press people.
It's setup is easy. A date and some news. That is easy to translate. I do it for NL. The setup of "goings-on" is not so good for translating. To complicated.
We may change the set up of goings on if another is best.
"Wikimedia News" should include to news no on "Meta goings-on". Also now there is a lot of non-news on "Wikimedia News". Wikipedia is now so big it is no news anymore that some wikipedia now has X articles. That type of news should be limited as much possible to big steps of a wiki. A new wiki, the first 10 000 articles, 100 000 articles, 500 000 arcticles, ..
Actually, this Wikimedia News might be something meant to be on wikimediafoundation site if it is not welcome on meta ?
The Announce-l list is a good idea. I (know as "Giskart" in those days) have done a attempt to use it some years ago without succes.
See; http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/announce-l/2002-November/thread.html
Yes, I remember very well. But there was noone willing to participate to it then. It might be different now ?
Maybe the time is there now for this. But but for it to work people need to be disciplined enough to send the information to the correct list the correct way.
Now I see on Wikipedia-l still a lot of postings that should be on WikiEN-l. Even this tread does not belong here. The stuff about the Arbitration Committee is for wikiEN-l and talk about inter WikiMedia communciation is for Foundation-l
Sigh
Anthere wrote:
I disagree.
I think Wikimedia_News should focus on news about Wikimedia for outsiders. While goings-on should focus on our internal kitchen stuff, which is not the business of outside people.
Outsiders and Wikipedia & co? How can we be more public then we are now? Even this posting will go to several archives for prosperity. Internal stuff does not exist at wikipedia.
Now, if it is only a question of naming, I do not care, but we should have a page giving news for press, for potential donators and similar people, and this page should absolutely not be the goings on as currently are.
I think most firms have internal and external communication. This is what intranet and extranet are about. This is the same idea. Our internal little problems of organisation are not of interest for press people.
The current "Wikipedia News" page is not the good way to go for external communciation.
I suggest for that;
Make a WikiMedia Foundation newsletter. Not to many. 4 or 5 editions a year. Whit to most important news about WikiMedia and its project. It can include once in a year a notice to beg for money.
Put it on the foundation website and include an option to subscribe to the newsletter by email.
But that is more WikiMedia Foundation PR and not about what I care. I care about good internal news distribution and so helping to keep the family together.
It's setup is easy. A date and some news. That is easy to translate. I do it for NL. The setup of "goings-on" is not so good for translating. To complicated.
We may change the set up of goings on if another is best.
Lets do that. Like you say the name is not important. The basic listing style is the way to do it i find. It is about news not make-up.
Now whit the template system the "WikiMedia Foundation intern all wikis wide news" can be put in specific template. It is the information of that template that can be translated and spread accros the world of WikiMedia wikis.
"Wikimedia News" should include to news no on "Meta goings-on". Also now there is a lot of non-news on "Wikimedia News". Wikipedia is now so big it is no news anymore that some wikipedia now has X articles. That type of news should be limited as much possible to big steps of a wiki. A new wiki, the first 10 000 articles, 100 000 articles, 500 000 arcticles, ..
Actually, this Wikimedia News might be something meant to be on wikimediafoundation site if it is not welcome on meta ?
If Wikimedia News is supposed to be for external readers the Foundation website is the place for it.
Andrew Lih wrote:
- Announcement mailing list
- A special page for coordination & communication
- Announcement translation and multilingualism
Related to this, just want to make sure everyone knows about these two pages for announcements and goings-on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Goings-on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Goings-on
-Andrew (User:Fuzheado)
Related to this, I wanted to be sure anyone knew that these also existed in other languages, and that everyone is FREE and WELCOME to cross information between all of these.
ant
Hi Fire, thanks for posting about this.
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 16:48:23 +0200, Ronny Raschkowan ronny@kopfrechnung.de wrote:
Hello!
When i talked yesterday on IRC with another wikipedian, we had both the same opinion that there's a problem with the communication, and staying
< up-to-date... (high priority?) news concerning Wikimedia.
It /is/ sometimes hard to track high-priority news and changes, including changes in where devs/editors hang out, how to get things done, and how to be most effective as a contributor.
Another problem is, that Wikis also couldn't know where they have to do requests like: Request for Permission, for switching the logo path, for queries, for updating a LanguageXX.php. Possibly they don't know there are IRC Channels and Mailing Lists, too.
Or, even if they know they exist, they don't know how important these channels are.
As for your suggestions:
1) Announcement mailing list
We should definitely set up / reactivate an announcement mailing list that is read-only (restricted posting; one could suggest items for the next announcement, but couldn't respond to an announcement via the same list.) and low-traffic (one or two announcements a week, save for rare circumstances). I want to be able to subscribe to a list that I automatically flag as 'urgent' when new mail comes in.
2) A special page for coordination & communication
This sound as though it would make a better meta: page, with translations into many languages, than a Special: page on each wiki. I think such a page should link to each of the tasks one can accomplish on Meta: and IRC and mailing lists... and then link to something like [[m:All Wikimedia projects]].
[[m:All Wikimedia projects]] would in turn contain the kind of information currently on [[m:Wikipedia languages]] and [[m:Embassy]] and [[m:Administrators of various Wikipedias]], in tabular form. This extended project-list would include links to the main community pages, and the active contacts, for each local project. Elian has been talking about what such a page might look like...
3) Announcement translation and multilingualism
Let's say there are X languages interested in keeping up with/translating all announcements, perhaps having their own language-specific mailing list.
Instead of setting up announcement mailing lists in every language, which might involve delays for a moderated list, how about having very brief announcement emails, with a minimal bit of text and a link to a multilingual announcement page on meta:; the blurb would be translated into all X langs in the email (and if translators for one of those langs were unavailable for an urgent announcement, every interested recipient would at least know right away that something was going on).
The [[m:Announcements]] page could just be a reverse-chronological list of new announcements, translated into as many languages as possible (more than just X; contributors in other langs would more sporadically come and translate the page).
Discussions of new proposed announcements, and translations of the email blurbs, could take place on [[m:Talk:Announcements]], where some community consensus could be reached before adding non-urgent announcements to the list.
--:-------.-.--------.--.--------.-.--------.--.--------[...] +sj+
:-( How frustrating. Please excuse the redundant messages! Gmail has been failing to refresh for a little while, and kept giving me "server is busy, please try again in a few minutes" messages when I tried to resend that message... but it seems that all three copies went through.
sj<
Hi Fire,
Le Friday 23 July 2004 16:48, Ronny Raschkowan a écrit :
Hello!
When i talked yesterday on IRC with another wikipedian, we had both the same opinion that there's a problem with the communication, and staying up-to-date.
The problem is that people don't know for example, a feature had been enabled or similar (high priority?) news concerning Wikimedia. Also, most Wikis aren't up to date: They don't know for example, that it is also possible to block logged in people using the IP - Ban interface. Another problem is, that Wikis also couldn't know where they have to do requests like: Request for Permission, for switching the logo path, for queries, for updating a LanguageXX.php. Possibly they don't know there are IRC Channels and Mailing Lists, too. I would purpose two possible ways to change that, but feel free to purpose other ways :)
- "Reactivating" the Announce-l Mailinglist. As far, as there are a lot
of changed going on, (creation of language specific wikibooks, quote for example), it'd be a good idea to have this ML working, as far as people could post the announces there and people interested in the changes could suscribe to that list and get informed.
- Creating a new Special page for all wikis (or similar), called
"Useful_Links" or similar ( I haven't found a good title yet ;) ). People could read there where they can found the IRC Chat, where they can found specific mailing lists, and where they can post request (for permission, logo, query, etc), (Embassies?), etc. As far, people would have a good reference page and would fastly find a way where they can report a problem to the community, request and communicate within the community and with other users.
The problem is not to create new places because people won't come there more than they do now. It is to bring the information where they are and where they look for it. So there is no miracle solution.
Sincerly yours, Ronny
Regards, Yann
wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org