Appreciate that Romanian and Montenegrin are understood as the names for
linguistic entities. In your reply you relate to people. You forget to name
the people living in Transnistria.
On 2/12/07, Liviu Andronic <landronimirc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/4/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra(a)ukr.net > wrote:
This is the point. It is my language, my country,
my region - if you
things that are important to me. I come from there. While he - he
No, I did not. I live in Kiev, not in Romania. Anyway, there is but one
problem in what you say: you keep confusing a language with a country.
don't. I understood quite well that you were in Ukraine. In previous
posts on this thread,
it was "that" country we - Gerard and I - were talking about. A bit
vague a notion,
something between country and region.
from WMF's POV they are 2 different things.
I am aware of this.
Here it's WMF, it's WMF laws
working, not your own or the Romanian laws.
I never intended to apply or impose any laws to WMF. I'm playing by its
WMF will never tell Romania how its street signs should look like, Romania
cannot tell WMF how a wiki page should look like.
Romania doesn't. Romanians do. And more important, perhaps, Moldovans do.
Failure to understand this
is... the soviet encyclopedia. A place where,
instead of being a SUBJECT
classification, politics become the SOURCE of classification. It's
in its purest form (whether red or black fascism
You may not like this, okay, that's your right. Then download the
it takes and make yourself an independent wiki.
Because here pillars are
pillars and they cannot be discussed. Over.
I do not discuss Wikipedia's pillars. I am quite OK with the committees
stance that decisions concerning linguistics are to be independent of
political decisions (or reality).
I sometimes hate these pillars myself. That's why Wikipedia is not a
monopolist to my spare time and yes I do start my
own projects. I have
own stupid personality and I love to show it (as
anyone else). Even in
most extreme fashion. Fantastic, that's what forums are for, for
find yourself one and have fun.
Do you really think that it is for fun that I am doing all
this? Explaining the realities of Moldova,
advocating for the closing of this Moldovan Wikipedia, voting for it,
getting involved in endless and
often fruitless or senseless debates? Do you consider that I'm enjoying
And when you are here either be a
wikipedian, or quit coming here at all.
I don't see how my doing all this has anything to do with my being a
Wikipedian. As a Wikipedian,
I contribute to the English and French Wikipedias, mainly. Expressing by
convictions on the Wikipedia-l mailing list does not take way this from
It's called context (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context
), I add a link
case you have doubts on the meaning. The usual
and fundamentalism is that they do no understand
what context is. They
cannot adapt, they are absolute in their essence. There's no such a
a private space to them. EVERYTHING on earth must either be their way or
vanish. Ok, you are free to love that
What makes you think that I accept that, or - more interesting -
love that? Are my arguments in
a "my way or the highway" style?
I would be OK with the situation, if a conversion script were
installed on the Romanian Wikipedia,
or if mo domain got renamed to something less confusing like mo-cyr (I
understand that this one is hardly
implementable). But WMF doesn't seem to intend any such compromise steps.
And if it is context <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context> we are talking
about, I believe that the WMF fails to realize certain
circumstances surrounding the Moldovan language. And the following is
addressed to the Language Committee, mainly.
First of all, how come does the WMF still consider Moldovan.. a language?
separate, independent language? At best, it is a dialect of the Romanian
language; at worst - a script used for writing the same Romanian
language. It was deemed as a language by the Soviet authorities, from
political considerations, for political purposes, through a political
decision and with the help of a customized
1930s (different from the original
script <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Cyrillic_alphabet> used for
writing the Romanian language). And currently there is
this POV, which happens - by the mere existance of the
Moldovan Wikipedia - to be WMF's POV.
In other words, the WMF simply takes over a Soviet time political
On this point, I find the
Horning <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Roberth> particularly
"the mere act of creating this language version of Wikipedia is making a
political statement that the WMF should stay out of and away from. I don't
know how you can create a NPOV Wikipedia in a language whose very
is expressing a political point of view."
So, why does this Moldovan Wikipedia exist? As far as I
am aware of the WMF policies,
WMF does not create wikipedias for dialects or scripts. Nor does it create
these from political considerations. Which - unintendedly - is the case
What I am doing here is trying to persuade the WMF decision makers that it
is not sensible <http://www.wordreference.com/definition/sensible> for the
WMF to tolerate the existance of this
Wikipedia. It is not reasonable to keep a Wikipedia based
on a "language" that is a political emanation. It is not reasonable to
a language version Wikipedia
whose natives are against it. It is not reasonable to expect much
future of this Wikipedia,
if contributions are made by one authentic
Mark Williamson. One argument to which I cannot
retort much is that this writing is still in use (at a limited scale).
However, the usage of a writing script is not a viable argument for
dedicating an entire Wikipedia to it.
These are my arguments.
, yet the fact that one may love
Securitate does not make Securitate's ways
acceptable to wikipedia.
WMF is WMF, you are yourself, it always was and it always shall be two
I don't confuse this either.
Learn to live with this, as we all did.
Berto 'd Sera
Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti
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