Hoi, Appreciate that Romanian and Montenegrin are understood as the names for linguistic entities. In your reply you relate to people. You forget to name the people living in Transnistria. Thanks, Gerard
On 2/12/07, Liviu Andronic landronimirc@gmail.com wrote:
On 2/4/07, Berto 'd Sera <albertoserra@ukr.net > wrote:
Hi
Hello
This is the point. It is my language, my country, my region - if you
want.
Some things that are important to me. I come from there. While he - he
came
in there.
No, I did not. I live in Kiev, not in Romania. Anyway, there is but one problem in what you say: you keep confusing a language with a country.
I don't. I understood quite well that you were in Ukraine. In previous posts on this thread, it was "that" country we - Gerard and I - were talking about. A bit vague a notion,
something between country and region.
And
from WMF's POV they are 2 different things.
I am aware of this.
Here it's WMF, it's WMF laws
working, not your own or the Romanian laws.
I never intended to apply or impose any laws to WMF. I'm playing by its own.
WMF will never tell Romania how its street signs should look like, Romania
cannot tell WMF how a wiki page should look like.
Romania doesn't. Romanians do. And more important, perhaps, Moldovans do.
Failure to understand this
is... the soviet encyclopedia. A place where, instead of being a SUBJECT for classification, politics become the SOURCE of classification. It's
fascism
in its purest form (whether red or black fascism it's absolutely irrelevant).
You may not like this, okay, that's your right. Then download the
software
it takes and make yourself an independent wiki. Because here pillars are pillars and they cannot be discussed. Over.
I do not discuss Wikipedia's pillars. I am quite OK with the committees stance that decisions concerning linguistics are to be independent of political decisions (or reality).
I sometimes hate these pillars myself. That's why Wikipedia is not a
monopolist to my spare time and yes I do start my own projects. I have
my
own stupid personality and I love to show it (as anyone else). Even in
the
most extreme fashion. Fantastic, that's what forums are for, for
example.
Go find yourself one and have fun.
Do you really think that it is for fun that I am doing all this? Explaining the realities of Moldova, advocating for the closing of this Moldovan Wikipedia, voting for it, getting involved in endless and often fruitless or senseless debates? Do you consider that I'm enjoying all this?
And when you are here either be a
wikipedian, or quit coming here at all.
I don't see how my doing all this has anything to do with my being a Wikipedian. As a Wikipedian, I contribute to the English and French Wikipedias, mainly. Expressing by convictions on the Wikipedia-l mailing list does not take way this from me.
It's called context (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context), I add a link in
case you have doubts on the meaning. The usual problem with
dictatorships
and fundamentalism is that they do no understand what context is. They cannot adapt, they are absolute in their essence. There's no such a
thing
as a private space to them. EVERYTHING on earth must either be their way or vanish. Ok, you are free to love that
What makes you think that I accept that, or - more interesting - love that? Are my arguments in a "my way or the highway" style? I would be OK with the situation, if a conversion script were installed on the Romanian Wikipedia,
or if mo domain got renamed to something less confusing like mo-cyr (I understand that this one is hardly implementable). But WMF doesn't seem to intend any such compromise steps.
And if it is context http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context we are talking about, I believe that the WMF fails to realize certain circumstances surrounding the Moldovan language. And the following is addressed to the Language Committee, mainly.
First of all, how come does the WMF still consider Moldovan.. a language? A separate, independent language? At best, it is a dialect of the Romanian language; at worst - a script used for writing the same Romanian language. It was deemed as a language by the Soviet authorities, from political considerations, for political purposes, through a political decision and with the help of a customized scripthttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_alphabet_created_ in the 1930s (different from the original script http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Cyrillic_alphabet used for writing the Romanian language). And currently there is onehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasile_Statiscientist supporting this POV, which happens - by the mere existance of the Moldovan Wikipedia - to be WMF's POV.
In other words, the WMF simply takes over a Soviet time political decision. On this point, I find the words< http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/User_talk:Robert_Horning#A_technical_question
of
Robert Horning http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Roberth particularly relevant: "the mere act of creating this language version of Wikipedia is making a political statement that the WMF should stay out of and away from. I don't know how you can create a NPOV Wikipedia in a language whose very existance is expressing a political point of view."
So, why does this Moldovan Wikipedia exist? As far as I am aware of the WMF policies, WMF does not create wikipedias for dialects or scripts. Nor does it create these from political considerations. Which - unintendedly - is the case here.
What I am doing here is trying to persuade the WMF decision makers that it is not sensible http://www.wordreference.com/definition/sensible for the WMF to tolerate the existance of this Wikipedia. It is not reasonable to keep a Wikipedia based on a "language" that is a political emanation. It is not reasonable to keep a language version Wikipedia whose natives are against it. It is not reasonable to expect much future of this Wikipedia, if contributions are made by one authentic Moldovanhttp://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilizator:Node_ue supporting it, Mark Williamson. One argument to which I cannot retort much is that this writing is still in use (at a limited scale). However, the usage of a writing script is not a viable argument for dedicating an entire Wikipedia to it.
These are my arguments.
, yet the fact that one may love
Securitate does not make Securitate's ways acceptable to wikipedia.
WMF is WMF, you are yourself, it always was and it always shall be two different things.
I don't confuse this either.
Liviu
Learn to live with this, as we all did.
Berto 'd Sera Personagi dl'ann 2006 per l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti
vojaotri)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-- Liviu _______________________________________________ Wikipedia-l mailing list Wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l