Sounds like an utter mess. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain it to me, even if I'm still not sure why it's such a big issue =O
On 6/27/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Probably not. Dpotop's original message assumed that everyone was already familiar with the situation.
I will give a brief summary, trying to be unbiased -- i.e., I will include the points of view of some of my opponents.
Some background --
According to some people, Moldovan is a synonym for Romanian. According to some people, the Cyrillic alphabet was imposed on the Moldovan ASSR by Stalin. According to others, the Cyrillic alphabet was in continuous use in the MASSR thruought its history with an exception of 15 years in the interwar period.
There are additional (and mostly irrelvant) arguments about whether or not Moldovan was created as a separate language from Romanian by Stalin, or whether it developed naturally.
That aside, the main issue here seems to be use of the Cyrillic script.
According to some people, nobody uses the Cyrillic script to write this language anymore. According to other people, all people who use the script are forced to against their will. According to yet others, there are people who use the script by choice.
According to all parties involved, "Moldovan" using the Cyrillic script is one of 3 official languages of Transnistria. What is disputed, however, is the status of Transnistria. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria for details.
Some people have gone so far as to say a Wikipedia using Cyrillic script is an insult "to all Romanians who died" at the hands of Stalin for the Latin alphabet, although that is a bit of a stretch.
Another contentious issue is the quality of the Wikipedia. There have been allegations of poor grammar, misspellings, etc., but the people who claim they exist don't bother to point them out or fix them.
You may judge the quality of the articles yourself, see http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Randompage
There are other issues, for example the villification of yours truly by the other side as "an evil stalinistic KGB Jewish-American Russian agent who does not know Romanian". Perhaps not in the same sentence, but I have been called all of the above at some point or another in some language.
Ironically, the "does not know Romanian" part is usually accused in Romanian, and I understand it. (To be fair, Danutz would beg to differ -- he claims to have "figured out" how I supposedly use a machine translator to read and write)
Mark
On 27/06/06, mboverload mboverload@gmail.com wrote:
Am I the only one here that is completely an utterly confused?
mboverload_confused
On 6/27/06, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Now, here's some proof of deception.
Jacky/Dpotop claims here that the reasoning behind the proposal to close the Moldovan Wikipedia is that there are no native contributors (which is no longer true exactly).
As this message from an ally of his, Dapiks/Constanteanu shows, this is not the case; rather it is politically motivated:
"Buna,
A inceput un vot pentru stergerea "Wikipediei Moldovenesti", o creatie a unui Evreu-American, cu origini suspecte in Basarabia si care nu vorbeste limba wikipediei la care pretinde a fi sysop. Il cheama Node ue si pentru a crea impresia ca lumea doreste aceasta wikipedie, a apelat la toti utilizatorii rusi care au venit sa voteze de partea lui desi nu cunosc bine subiectul si li s-a spus ca voteaza pentru supravietuirea alfabetului chirilic. Asa a ajuns ca votul sa fie 31 pentru stergerea Mo wiki, si 42 impotriva stergerii - deci in alte cuvinte pentru pastrarea wikipediei in limba "moldoveneasca". Vino si voteaza aici[1] , ca sa sergem acesta creatura cu miros bolshevic, care insulta toti romanii de pe ambele maluri ale Prutului. Node ue le-a spus rusilor sa traduca mesajul lui in limba rusa si sa-l transmita mai departe. Trimite si tu mesajul acesta la toti utilizatorii romani-unionisti sau romani-moldoveni unionisti pe care-i cunosti pe en.wiki sau ro.wiki. Dapiks 23:36, 23 June 2006 (UTC)"
Hopefully some of you can guess what this means, but I will give you a summary of what he said.
He says that a vote has begun for the deletion of the "Moldovan Wikipedia" (in quotes), notes that it is the "creation of a Jewish-American with possible origins in Bessarabia" (Bessarabia is a historical term here used in a derogatory context to refer to the modern-day Republic of Moldova). He goes on to say that the Jewish-American's name is "Node ue", and that this person has "called all Russian users to vote on his side even though they do not know the subject well". He then notes the current number of votes in a belittling manner. He goes on to urge people to come and vote to delete "this ugly Bolshevik creation which insults all Romanians on both sides of the Pruth".
The particularly political part is at the end when he says "Send this message also to all Romanian or Romano-Moldovan unionist users which you know on en.wiki or mo.wiki."
An urge to spread a message to only people of a certain political background seems unacceptable. Yes, I did post at the village pump of the Russian Wikipedia and request a message to be translated into Russian (according to some Romanians, my message was anti-Romanian and deceptive, however when Dpotop posted a counter-argument, most Russians continued to maintain previous opinions). However, I encouraged EVERYONE to vote, which ultimately included one Russian user who voted for the closing of mo.wikipedia.
Mark
On 24/06/06, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello everybody,
Remember, you decided to leave the Moldovan wikipedia freezed, but
not
completely deleted. Now, its unique contributor [[:en:User:Node_ue]],
is
back (probably on school holiday), with his anti-Romanian edits. I
cite from
[[:mo:Wikipedia_talk:Administrator]]:
<i> Please don't write in Romanian here, write Moldovan. Every time
you
write Romanian on the Moldovan wikipedia, god kills a kitten. </i>
No to mention that he initiated a vote to become again sysop, then
tried
to falsify the results (because they were not favourable). The current version of the page [[:mo:Wikipedia:Administrator]] is that rigged by Node_ue, but take a look at the history on the vote page [
http://mo.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrator&oldid=... ],
which shows the true result of the vote according to the original
rules set
by Node_ue.
After this, he managed to invite the entire Russian wikipedia to
take
position on a language they know nothing about here: [[:meta:Proposals
for
closing projects]]. Take a look at his post here [[:ru:Википедия:Форум/Новости#Moldovan]], and notice the blatant lie concerning the cyrillic script (whereas the problem is in fact the
absence
of Moldovan editors).
In the meantime, Node_ue is copying articles from ro.wiki to mo.wikiand
pretends they are in a different language.
It must be noted that he is the only one on the entire wikipedia
(all
wikipedias took together) to pretend speaking a "Moldovan language" different from the Romanian one. Just take a look at
[[:en:Category:User
mo]], [[:mo:Category:User mo]], [[:ro:Category:User mo]], [[:ru:Category:User mo]].
Moreover he himself places himself at level mo-2. I can assure you
this
guy isn't able to write correct text in Moldovan. Any native Moldovan
can
tell you the same (in fact, this is why he keeps copying articles
from
ro.wiki).
While no native Moldovan editor exists, the Moldovan wikipedia will
continue to be a political statement that exacerbates nationalisms
from
Romania, Russia, and Moldova itself, and a playground for clever and
stupid
trolls.
It should be closed until a native Moldovan editor requires its
re-opening and assumes admin rights.
This argument has already been put forward here [[:meta:Proposals
for
closing projects#What decision makers need to know]].
Yours sincerely, [[:en:User:Dpotop]], [[:ro:User:Dpotop]]
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