Again, somebody who seems to have skipped over everything I've ever
said about signed languages, going months and dozens of posts back.
Whatever.
The part of the e-mail that really struck me, though, was:
We might then run into
a situation similar to the båkmal/nynorsk, or the cantonese/mandarin
fiascos, in which each variant of sign language demands a seperate wiki for
itself. If we allow an ASL wiki, then how can we say no to an Auslan wiki,
a Gestuno wiki, an ISL wiki, etc.
1) Bokmål is spelt bokmål, not båkmal. Not that big of an issue
though, because people do things like that all the time, for example
Jimbo's "Mandarian" or Angela's "Sinetic" (though to be fair,
Angela's
"Sinetic" e-mail was in response to somebody else who used that
erroneous spelling).
2) Perhaps you're thinking of Traditional and Simplified Chinese,
rather than Cantonese and Mandarin? As countless native speakers have
testified here, Written Cantonese is very different from written
Mandarin, it can't be considered a variant logically.
3) Each variant of sign language is the part that really took away a
good part of my faith in the human race.
From the Wikipedia article on signed languages:
"However, contrary to
popular belief, sign language is not universal. Wherever
communities
of deaf people exist, sign languages develop, but as with spoken
languages, these vary from region to region. They are not based on the
spoken language in the country of origin; in fact their complex
spatial grammars are markedly different."
Chinese Sign Language and American Sign Language are AS DIFFERENT AS
ENGLISH AND CHINESE, if not more so.
In fact, relations between signed languages often offer interesting
contrasts to the spoken languages of the areas, for example:
American Sign Language is closely related to French Sign Language, but
is completely mutually unintelligible with British Sign Language.
Taiwanese Sign Language is closely related to Japanese Sign Language,
but is completely mutually unintelligible with Chinese Sign Language
or Hong Kong Sign Language.
Cheers?
Mark
On 09/09/05, Craig Franklin <craig(a)halo-17.net> wrote:
Scríobh Neil Harris:
ASL is most certainly a first-class language, but
it _must be written_
to be usable in a text-based system like Wikipedia.
I think this is the key here. Do deaf persons in the United States actually
write ASL in their everyday lives. A quick bit of Googling and research
seems to indicate that there isn't even a settled orthography for ASL, so
producing material in a written form seems counterproductive. Half a
million people might "speak" the language on a daily basis, but if only 5%
of people understand the particular form of notation that is used, it's
going to be close to useless for most deaf persons. We might then run into
a situation similar to the båkmal/nynorsk, or the cantonese/mandarin
fiascos, in which each variant of sign language demands a seperate wiki for
itself. If we allow an ASL wiki, then how can we say no to an Auslan wiki,
a Gestuno wiki, an ISL wiki, etc.
Sadly, I think that sign languages can, at the present time, be only
classified as being spoken and not written. If you can show me a commonly
accepted written notation for ASL (that has, for example, 50%+ understanding
from those who use ASL as a spoken language), that can be conceivably used
on the internet, then I'll be the first to call for the wiki's creation.
Unfortunately, I think this is a technical challenge that might not be
possible at the present time (since SignWriting, which seems to be the most
popular of the written notations, doesn't seem to have any Unicode support).
- Craig [[en:Lankiveil]]
-------------------
Craig Franklin
PO Box 764
Ashgrove, Q, 4060
Australia
http://www.halo-17.net - Australia's Favourite Source of Indie Music, Art,
and Culture.
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