Wikipedia-l January 2006

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95 participants
93 discussions

This is a 'first-timer' - should I have missunderstood something then please have mercy for me
by Michael Laudahn 23 Jan '06

23 Jan '06

You're right, 'skimming' the issue is hardly the appropriate way to deal with it. You would have to take five minutes and READ concentratingly the thread opener. As mentioned in the inter-german correspondence since then, the discussion is about the refusal of the german Wikipedia hierarchy to accept also critical weblinks on their pages, not just neutral or acclaiming ones. This is something normal in e g anglo-saxon countries. Cf down on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_B._MacDonald . The replies from Germany were an insisting type of pretending to 'nix verstehn' ('not understand'), although they did understand - no doubt. How do YOU react when people try to treat you this way? Some sarcasm could be among the choices at one's disposal, according to my logic. Why you have chosen to react emotionally instead of rationally, I don't want to speculate over at this time. However, wouldn't you be free to correct this attitude at any given moment?

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This is a 'first-timer' - should I havemissunderstoodsomehting then please have mercy for me
by Michael Laudahn 23 Jan '06

23 Jan '06

Would you believe it - another german 'fuzzy' 'I don't know anything about this case/whatever and I don't want to engage in this matter however your logic sounds strange to me': What kind of contribution is this intended to be? The case is described in the thread opener. If you are unwilling to read it, why do you write in then? Can your commentary under these circumstances be other than rant? 'As this is obviously a matter of the german Wikipedia, why shouldn't people of dewp be allowed to state their point?' You would be more than welcome to participate in a discussion that deserves this name. If you, however, continue - and systematically so - to avoid the real question, then you show that something is wrong with you: Either you are unable to, or you prefer not to understand (for whatever reasons). 'And, if you say (I didn't look into this one either), that the normal processes for such a matter in dewp did not work and now your post should be a kind of appeal to international Wikipedia Community, why shouldn't dewp-people be allowed to defend their point of view?' If you only did so. You haven't even started to plead your case. Instead, you continue insisting that there isn't one. The issue again, and in a nutshell: Why is it not possible on german Wikipedia pages describing people or institutions to insert something that is usual on correspondent anglo-saxon Wikipedia pages: i e a section that lists not only 'neutral' (?) and acclaiming websites, but also such that are critical? I had given an example for that in the thread opener. I have described everything very clearly and in all necessary details in that first, slightly extended but almost complete contribution. You would be very well advised to take five minutes of your precious time and read this text, trying to follow the clear logic exposed there. International readers: Read the contributions from germans *) in this thread, and you'll understand why german society is 'kaputt', and why it apparently cannot be repaired. The german legal system does its part to keep things in their sad state, cf http://worldimprover.net/EN/en4.html , so the 'elite' of the political-juridical complex **) can continue their parasite existence at the expense of the german public. 'dewp-user but quite neutral in this case': What are you tryin to insinuate? You are active enough to be a member of this list, so are probably more than just a 'user'. I would consider you part of the german Wikipedia structure. As such, you cannot be neutral, as experience has shown. Wikipedia has become a power instrument, and it is treated like that, at least in Germany. *) I was born there, and german is my mother tongue. Still, due to my extended polyglot and worldwide CV (cf http://worldimprover.net/EN/en8.html ) I ask myseld if I should consider myself a member of that nation anymore - at least not a typical one. **) Remeber the defunct Soviet Union's military-industrial complex, which destroyed the country? Is something similar happening to Germany through its equivalent?

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This is a 'first-timer' - should I havemissunderstood somehting then please have mercy for me
by Michael Laudahn 23 Jan '06

23 Jan '06

'as user of de.wikipedia and one of the people with the Ströbele page on my watchlist I can only second Toms opinion.' Sure - it indicates that you suffer from the same typically german problems as your forerunner. You definitely carefully avoid to deal in detail with my argument chain. You can mobilise many more dummies over there to repeat your faulty conclusions, but that doesn't mean they were right. Mass doesn't replace class. This is the experience I habe been making with the german Wikipedia. And I've mentioned that already. Just read the original message. Who - other than german - wants to blame me for looking for international support in this matter? From my worldwide experience (cf http://worldimprover.net/EN/en8.html ), I would consider US americans to be in the best position. Not just because of their history, but also because Wikipedia is a US venture. Can anyone among you hear me? And once again: I really think we can from now on do without any more comments from Germany, as long as they don't develop. I thought this was clear already after my last message, but Till Westermayer proves that I was mistaken.

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Weekly digest from Wikimedia SCG
by Jovana Milicevic 22 Jan '06

22 Jan '06

First months of year 2006. were very succesful for Wikimedia SCG, especially in media promotions. First, at the last day of past year, in GNUzilla (electronic magazine dedicated to free software) is published an article about Wikimedia SCG and Wikipedia in serbian language. Then at January 8, daily newspaper "Glas javnosti" published article "Free competition-Wikipedia", comparing Wikipedia and Britanica, and Serbian Wikipedia was mentioned. January the 11th: -Milos Rancic talked about the Wikipedia and Wikimedia at the channel two of the Radio of Belgrade January the 17th: - Article about Wikipedia in daily newspaper Politika - Jovana Milicevic talked about at the Art television - On the Serbian television B92 site, in culture chapter, was placed the news about Wikipedia promotion with comments - The same promotion was announced on the site of the Belgrade January the 18th: - Milos Rancic talked on the radio B92 January the 19th: - Platform about Wikipedia took place in Youth center Dom omladine - Jovana's interviews were broadcasted on the radio Sajam and Radio of Belgrade - News about the platform published at the national television web site January the 20th: - Goran Obradovic speaked in the morning programe on the National television - Jovana Milicevic speaked in the morining programe on the television Metropolis - Goran Obradovic and Nikola Smolenski talked for weekly newspapers Vreme, and that interview will be published at Thursday 26th January Wikimedia SCG meetings are taking place every Sunday in Youth center Dom omladine Belgrade. Jovana Milicevic

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This is a 'first-timer' - should I have missunderstood somehting then please have mercy for me
by Michael Laudahn 22 Jan '06

22 Jan '06

Hi out there I hope someone can hear me? Alright, let's give it a try. My name is the one shown in the address. You can learn a little more about me and my a slightly less than ordinary life at http://worldimprover.net/EN/en8.html (short text, translated by a native speaker), if you like. After having read the text, you will have learned that I am a german national. As such, and with my polyglot and international background, I am very concerned about the situation in Germany, i e the situation of 'democracy' and the 'constitutional state'. For those interested, there is a page dealing with that issue on my website: http://worldimprover.net/EN/en4.html . For those who prefer to skip it, let me put it short: There is ample evidence that the two exist on paper only. Reality is totally different. Proof? Just enter 'rechtsmissbrauch' (= abuse of law) into a search engine and be bewildered by the huge number of responses. I was naive enough earlier in my life to believe in this lie, and consequently my life has been - maybe not destroyed, but totally changed from what I had expected it to be. I have therefore decided to dedicate the rest of my life to fight 'german conditions'. And I'm getting better, it seems: There is lots of irrefutable evidence for that I've been in the secret services' focus for years. Okay, now what has this got to do with Wikipedia. I found that comtempo persons and organisations have discovered that Wikipedia is a fabulous free-of-charge PR medium. I e, as long as the text there fits their needs. And german Wikipedia entries (= those behind them) seem to have developped a system that makes sure that just this happens. Let me give you two examples: There is the self-proclaimed human-rights movement Humanistische Union, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanistische_Union . I myself have made the experience that they - i e their number two manager (a lawyer) - are not interested in human-rights cases, if german nationals and ditto state agencies are involved. It appears that human rights are there for foreign asylum seekers only. I've added a page to my website, http://worldimprover.net/DE/de4_2.html , where the correspondence in my case with that HU personality is published. A similar case is MP Hans-Christian Stroebele, cf http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B6bele . His scam is to always 'play folksy', see the photo of Stroebele on his 'famous bike' on that same page. I presented him my case as well, and the only reaction was that he rid me off, shyster-style. Also this correspondence can be found on my website, at http://worldimprover.net/DE/de4_3.html . My detailed statistics show me that these pages are amongst the best-visited of my website, and continue to be. People appear to be interested in the truth about such people, not their pre-fabricated myths. So my next thought was: If their Wikipedia entries are super-naturally good, then some counter-balance couldn't hurt, to put things back in the right scale. So I added a link to my pages 4.2 and 4.3, down on their Wikipedia pages, under their link collections. They didn't manage to survive there very long. Especially in the case of Stroebele, there seems to be an eager monitor present who makes sure nothing negative gets known about his master. When making further inquiries, I found that both this censor and his mentor are in the same political party, the 'Greens'. The only difference is that Stroebele is nearing the end of his career, for age reasons, while his protege is a student, in his early twenties - some sponsoring of an elder politician won't hurt, if you're eager to climb the political ladder, I imagine? By the way, I have found in the meantime that my thought - of adding a counter-balance link - probably isn't so exotic: Just go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_B._MacDonald , and you will see that they have added a chapter 'criticisms of XY's work'. I'd say, this is the same concept - isn't it? Now, in case your next thought is to advise me to go through the national mediation procedure established by Wikipedia, then my answer is: I've tried that, and the outcome was almost predictable. Although I was dealing with several people, they all said almost exactly the same - just as if they previously had agreed upon this method. And I'm almost sure they have, for this is the way the german society (mal-) functions. When someone has reached a post, he allies with the others that have got one, and then they start to make their private 'regulars table policies' (translation of german term 'stammtischpolitik' - alluding at the habit of 'making politics' when sitting together in the guesthouse drinking beer) at the expense of the rest. This is probably the principal reason why Germany is more and more becoming a corrupt banana republic - and a highly technicized one, thus an Orwell-type nightmare for every critical mind. Now what can we do in this situation? I have heard 'foreigners' say that the majority of germans aren't quite grown-up. And I think I would agree with them. If we now assume that we are dealing with this kind of people also in the german Wikipedia section, wouldn't the only cure be a kind of 'occupational force' that revises their structures, schools them in how to do their work properly and then monitors their day-to-day activies for a while? Also, it might suggest itself to establish a complaint line, in case these people later - when on their own again - suffer from a relapse into old acting patterns. After all, even if you manage to change them, the society remains as such. And that will continue to have its repercussions. I think this should have given you the picture. If you think I ought to add or clarify anything, please let me know. Otherwise, I'm really curious to see what comes out of this. Regards Michael Mehr info? Siehe http://worldimprover.net/ und http://es-reicht.org/ ********************************************************************* Michael Laudahn Postfach 6829 CH-8050 Zürich (nur sporadische zustellung - nicht für kurztermin-sachen!) tel: nicht öffentlich fax: +41 (0)44 274 2845 epost: ml(a)worldimprover.net *********************************************************************

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This is a 'first-timer' - should I havemissunderstood somehting then please have mercy for me
by Michael Laudahn 22 Jan '06

22 Jan '06

In case there are anglo-saxon readers: Koll has done it again It's just a mixture of polemics and pretzel logic - like I called it, 'german fuzzy logic'. He has withdrawn the preposterous 'paranoia' allegation. That was real quick. Simultaneously, he's trying to replace it with a lighter kind of accusation, called 'querulantentum' (I leave it up to you if you find a suitable translation for that in english - my suspicion is, this is just another kind of german invention to try and muzzle uncomfortable messengers by giving them a name a court can find useful to abuse. Weren't nazi courts actively thriving on this notion ('querulantentum')? A smiley won't help damping this new insult of his. He remains inflexible in the real issue, though. His tactics are to try and divert your attention from the fact that I gave all the pertinent information in my english-language messages. In other words, there is no need to read the german part of my website. Just trust that what I state is true information, then go from there. Do I give any reason to believe that I were not telling the truth? It is the german type of 'governance logic' at de.wikipedia.org that this case is about. And it should be easily understandable through my original message already. Otherwise, let me know what else you'd like to know or have explained. In case Koll still hasn't comprehended it: I am not interested in the kind of statements he has delivered so far. Is someone else? Then, at least I would prefer not to hear from him again.

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Change namespace names for Cebuano WP
by Bentong Isles 21 Jan '06

21 Jan '06

Hi all. This is in reference to the Cebuano Wikipedia (ceb.wp). I would like to ask first of all, if it is possible to change the namespace name "Wikipedia" into "Wikipedya", as I noticed that some sites are doing this. We have also been doing this "unofficially"; our newcomer page, for example, is [[:ceb:Wikipedya:Maayong pag-abot, higala!]] and not [[:ceb:Wikipedia:Maayong pag-abot, higala!]]. But the namespaces as known to the mediawiki software does not reflect the namespaces as used by the community. And if this possible, how can we contact a developer to do this for us? Thanks all. --Bentong Isles [[:ceb:User:Bentong Isles]] Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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New Email address, as an alternative to "jackbarry99@Gmail.com".
by John Barry 21 Jan '06

21 Jan '06

Happy NewYear, I'm updating my address book. Please take a moment to update your latest contact information. Your information is stored in my personal address book and will not be shared with anyone else. Plaxo is free, if you'd like to give it a try......ALSO: Note my new, second Email address...... also: Let me know if you want an occasional newsletter about Bay Area real estate trends... Click the following link to correct or confirm your information: https://www.plaxo.com/edit_contact_info?r=8590299426-115709391--477438479 Name: Job Title: Company: Work E-mail: wikipedia-l(a)wikimedia.org Work Phone: Work Fax: Work Address Line 1: Work Address Line 2: Work City, State, Zip: Mobile Phone: Home E-mail: Home Phone: Home Fax: Home Address Line 1: Home Address Line 2: Home City, State, Zip: Birthday: P.S. I've included my Plaxo card below so that you have my current information. I've also attached a copy as a vCard. +----------------- | John Barry | jackbarry99(a)Gmail.com | Realtor | | JackBarryRealtors.com | 1627 Tenth Ave | San Francisco,Ca.94122 | work: 415 564 0225 | mobile: 415 235 7897 | web: www.jackbarryrealtors.com +------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ This message was sent to you by jackbarry99(a)gmail.com via Plaxo. To opt out: https://www.plaxo.com/opt_out?r=8590299426-115709391--477438479 Plaxo's Privacy Policy: http://www.plaxo.com/support/privacy

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More news from Serbia and Montenegro chapter
by Milos Rancic 21 Jan '06

21 Jan '06

Before Jovana sends (in Monday) our weekly digest about events related to Wikimedia SCG chapter, I want to say/ask a few things: - I think that lists Foundation, Wikipedia, Wikinews and email to the Board are good places for such informations. If someone thinks that some list(s)/email(s) should be excluded/included, please, tell us that. - In the last 7-10 days we had a lot of contacts with media, one rostrum (I think that our dictionaries made correct translation :) this is some kind of lecturer with debate after that) as well as our regular meetings at Sunday with a lot of new people who are interested in developing Wikipedia (in general, Serbian, but others, too) and software for conversion (improvement of Zhengzhu's Chinese and Serbian version and possibility to implement it not only for Serbian version of MediaWiki, but, also for some others with similar needs). - Thanks to Dragan Ambrozic, our vice president and professional in event making, we have a lot contacts with media. I am surprised with the number of journalists who contacted our PR Jovana and me. In Friday we had 26 new registered users. I looked relations between registered users and users with more then 10 edits and when 26 users register accounts it means that we would have 3 Wikipedians more; if we continue with such progression, we would have 100 new users per month, very soon (to compare: the best month before was August 2005 with 26 new users; also, approximation for December 2005 was that we would have 203 users at all!). - People outside of the project like our idea very much, many of them are willing to help in different ways. (Finally, we have the article about Jimbo ;) ) And I can say that I am very happy because of recent development: people who are not my close friends are calling me by phone and they are saying "I heard about Wikipedia in the news!". - It also should be noted that Wikimedia SCG is the first free knowledge organization in Serbia and Montenegro. There are no such organization in Serbia. And in this moment we are covering the hole space related to free knowledge. (There are some organization which promote open content, BUT they are doing that only because it is the new way for getting money from sponsors.)

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"adminship is no big deal"
by Habj 19 Jan '06

19 Jan '06

This statemant, "adminship is no big deal", originates from enwiki. Could someone please explain in what circumstances this saying was worded? I see it used meaning "adminship is no big deal, so you shouldn't be so careful who to elect for this task" as well as "adminship is no big deal, so you shouldn't try and find ways to get rid of admins who are obviously unsuitable for the job". My guess is: this sentence originates from the truly virgin stage of wikipedia, where some people wanted to avoid others starting fighting for admin (or at the time, "sysop") status. Currently, I see no reason for the remaining of this statements in various places in the Wikipedia namespace in various wikipedias - none at all. /Habj

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Wikipedia-l January 2006