Wikipedia-l September 2005

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87 participants
94 discussions

Re: [Wiktionary-l] English orthographies
by Gerard Meijssen 23 Sep '05

23 Sep '05

Ray Saintonge wrote: > Gerard Meijssen wrote: > >> Hoi, >> To explain to the people on the Wiktionary mailinglist where this >> comes from, there is a huge debate on the Wikipedia-l mailinglist >> about having a seperate English and American English wikipedia. > > > I wouldn't characterize it as huge. One person made the proposal, and > no-one who replied considered it realistic. > >> In the plans for Ultimate Wiktionary there are three ways in which >> words can be destinguished as being of a particular orthography. I >> will describe these here and hope to use the energy of this >> discussion for this question that needs a resolution at some stage. >> >> >> Please let me know what you think and particularly why. > > > It's premature to get into this kind of debate before the software is > in place, but I suspect that the preferred option will vary from one > term to the next. > > Ec Hoi, Ultimate Wiktionary will use relational data that will be served by Wikidata. With related data it is not really possible for behaviour to be arbitrary different from one term to the next. As I mentioned there are three basic choises. As far as I can see, there are only variations possible within the three choises that I mentioned. The point with a data design is that it is the basis for what the functionality will be like. Waiting untill the database has been implemented is not that great a strategy. It is akin to building a house and only decide where the windows, doors and rooms will be after the completion of the house. It is much better to look at the design now, while we still can change things relatively easy. We are now still at the stage where we still change the "house" on paper. Thanks, GerardM

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Wikipedia 'Straiyan English
by David Gerard 22 Sep '05

22 Sep '05

Alphax wrote: >I agree completely. Furthurmore, I feel that we shall need an Australian >English Wikipedia to handle the many words in Australian English which >differ from English English (and possibly Queensland English, New South >Wales English, et. al), a South African English Wikipedia to accomodate >the heavy use of Afrikaans, a New Zealand English Wikipedia to account >for the lack of vowels, a Canadian English Wikipedia to account for the >number of French words, a Canadian French Wikipedia to complement it, >and a Singlish Wikipedia because it has a funny name. http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/English-American_Dictionary http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Australia-English_Dictionary (I am looking to expand the latter a bit then get it onto the front page.) - d.

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English stats
by Lars Aronsson 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

In the last two weeks this list saw 233 messages with "English" in the Subject line. The most common ("Re:" removed) were: 95 Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia English English 45 Subject: [Wikipedia-l] new request for ASL/English wikipedia 30 Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Sample ASL/English entry 22 Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Anglicised English British English 9 Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Request for AS/English Wikipedia 9 Subject: [Wikipedia-l] OurMedia for ASL-English video None of these discussions are expected to lead anywhere in the near future. Please wake me up when you have some ASL websites that I can look at, or when you have reached consensus on color/colour spelling. The most of these pointless messages were posted by: 27 From: Mark Williamson 21 From: Gerard Meijssen 19 From: Jack & Naree 19 From: Alphax 16 From: Andrew Gray 12 From: James R. Johnson I admit to having written 2 of the messages, and this is my 3rd. In 1945 Vannevar Bush wrote an article about the Memex, but he never built one. In 1960 Ted Nelson started to design the Xanadu system, but have you seen it in operation? The aspect that makes Wikipedia stand out is that it exists. We will continue to be more successful than those old losers if we keep smalltalk to a minimum and get back to work on ideas that we can implement. -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se

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English - a sub-vernacular of Norman French
by Giuseppe DAngelo 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

On 19/09/05, Gerrit Holl wrote: > Since English is really a dialect of French, a lie bree is probably a > place where you buy your books, as it is in any "proper language" (-: I'm not 100% sure if you were joking or just labouring under a misunderstanding, so I thought I'd point out that English is largely a Germanic language, closely related to the various modern Scandinavian tongues, and also to modern Dutch and German. French is like a distant cousin (sharing great-great-great-great-grandparents in Proto-Indo-European) which recently had a quick affair, so that a few of her features show up in the offspring ;) -- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP] _______________________________________________ English a germanic language? Impossible! An absurd notion! Lunacy! Exaggeration! Unadulterated opinionated insanity! Essentially misdirected ill conceived viewpoints. Troublesome tempestuous tapestries. As tasteless as a tarty tarantella. Significantly senseless. Quintessentially unquotable. Positively preposterous. Necessarily nonplussed and nominally abnormal. Exponentially and exceedingly uneventful. Undeveloped, uncorroborated, irresponsible, and finally, bountifully morally bankrupt. I opine that I have proven my point. Yours truly, frankly, ecetera pippu d'angelo --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo

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Re: Anglicised English British English
by Giuseppe DAngelo 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

I love these kinds of debates - the ones that can go around in circles until the cows come home. Sure, I get pissed off (AE pissed) at american spellings as much as the next bloke - but it doesn't mean I can't follow what's going on - nor does it mean that it will ever influence my pristine, strawberries and cream, Oxbridge, very best of the Queen's english - with a name like Giuseppe d'Angelo - you wouldn't expect otherwise would you? I love the fact that there are a couple of thousand words that might be found in wikipedia with two spellings (both equally acceptable). It makes it easier for me to point to my thick skulled paisani and say to them: don't worry if a word can be spelled two or three (or five or seven) ways in Sicilian - it's the same word and we all understand it regardless of how you want to spell it - it's not as big an issue as you think - look at English! - the language of the lower orders under Norman rule now rules the world - but the varieties are as many as teams in the English FA. It hasn't mattered one jot - there are more important things to worry about - like who will win out of the Sydney Swans and West Coast Eagles this Saturday at the MCG and will Bazza be rubbed out for a week? And has there truly been a leak in the brownlow voting? Now they're important questions! Salutamu pippu d'angelo --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3

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Anglo-Saxon wiki
by James R. Johnson 21 Sep '05

21 Sep '05

Hi all, Just wanted to inform everyone of the newest Anglo-Saxon article: Janice Rogers Brown. James

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Re: English - a sub-vernacular of Norman French
by Giuseppe DAngelo 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

Touché! 9. Re: English - a sub-vernacular of Norman French (Rowan Collins) Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 21:55:05 +0100 From: Rowan Collins Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] English - a sub-vernacular of Norman French To: wikipedia-l(a)wikimedia.org Message-ID: <9f02ca4c05092013557f11e85f(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I can only respond that "I will fight you on the beaches..." [I'm sure you know the rest] ;) On 20/09/05, Giuseppe DAngelo wrote: > English a germanic language? Impossible! An absurd notion! Lunacy! Exaggeration! Unadulterated opinionated insanity! Essentially misdirected ill conceived viewpoints. Troublesome tempestuous tapestries. As tasteless as a tarty tarantella. Significantly senseless. Quintessentially unquotable. Positively preposterous. Necessarily nonplussed and nominally abnormal. Exponentially and exceedingly uneventful. Undeveloped, uncorroborated, irresponsible, and finally, bountifully morally bankrupt. I opine that I have proven my point. -- Rowan Collins BSc [IMSoP] --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi, antispam, antivirus, POP3

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Placeopedia, combining Wikipedia with Google Maps
by David Gerard 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Placeopedia-or-Where-Wikipedia-Meets-Google-… So far for the UK mostly. - d.

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en: DVD in the works!
by David Gerard 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

http://www.smh.com.au/news/next/world-of-knowledge-in-your-hands/2005/09/19… A fellow called Jason King. Doesn't give his en: Wikipedia username. The DVD is basically a Knoppix disk running a readable Wikipedia - d.

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Wikipedia English English
by Ray Saintonge 20 Sep '05

20 Sep '05

Jack & Naree wrote: >Well I'm familiar with the Canadian immigration procedure, and I know that >it's hard to get in without decent qualifications and useful work experience >(unless you speak French). > Canadian immigration policy is a subject best left for another time. :-$ >So all these Commonwealth English-speaking immigrants (including those from >the British Isles) go into important jobs where they have input into the >language that gets written down in the Canadian media; on websites; and >official documents. > If you review the important statistics that you cited India and Pakistan are Commonwealth countries that provide considerably more immigrants than either the UK or US. A form of American English is also widespread in the Philippines. The English of the subcontinent has a distinctive flavour of its own, and if put in a position of influence those immigrants may have an influence on Canadian English that could be quite different from what you would expect. Immigrants from the UK will include people with many other skills that just linguistic ones. Those other skills are more important for immigration policy. Although the same might be true for Americans it must be remembered that the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) is also a factor there that will facilitate higher level migration within an established company >The podgy working-class Canucks, on the other hand may well be >indistinguishable from podgy working-class Yanks, but they can't have as >disproportionate an effect on written English in Canada as these >aforementioned immigrants. > Television, and products advertised on television are more influential. Most mass marketed books are from the USA. Those less educated persons who continue to read are more likely to be influenced by American romance novels. >http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/facts2004/permanent/12.html >The number of Commonwealth English speakers combined is by far the largest >contingent. >Plus the fact that you've got the French influence on spellings - it's >cheaper (for advert/sign-writing) and more efficient to use one spelling, so >why have an American and French version when you can have an English one >that suits both. > The French spelligs do tend to be closer to the British for reasons that go back to the Norman conquest, but if the context requires full translation this is not likely to be noticed. The bulk of the translation is from English to French so that becomes an exercise in protecting French from the corruption of anglicisms of which ever type. The politically correct tendency in Quebec French is sometimes toward having a language that is more correct than what you might find in France. Ec >On 19/09/05, Ray Saintonge <saintonge(a)telus.net> wrote: > > >>Jack & Naree wrote: >> >> >>>The thing aboot (!) Canada is that there's a steady stream of recent (and >>>educated) British immigrants as with Australia, maintaining the standards. >>> >>> >>>I would not be surprised to find Americanisms more a feature of urban >>>working-class Canadians near the US border. >>> >>> >>Some 80% of the Canadian population lives within 150km of the US >>border. (That's about 90 miles for you Brits and Yanks that don't >>understand that.) British and Australian immigrants have not been >>dominant among those who choose to come live in Canada; we see far more >>newcomers from India. I understand that years of British influence have >>resulted in a peculiar form of hypercorrect English, but I don't see how >>this influx of Raj English will help maintain standards among Disneyfied >>Canadians. I think that a continued practice of smug linguistic aikido >>will be more effective Come to think of it, that strategy may work as >>well in cricket as in baseball. >> >>

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Wikipedia-l September 2005