> Guillaume-
>
> > I agree and I think we need more time to well
organize this second
round.
> Not really. We have more than a week until we start.
I don't think a week is enough to clear all discussion
and evaluate all
solutions, but let's try.
> > Rules for the second round are already decided (in
details, not
only
vote
> > system) ?
>
> For the most part, yes. I don't think there will be
any major
changes. I
> have just set the deadline for the method to Sep 12
so there will be
three
> days of time to translate the voting instructions.
I only see a "logo vote system" vote. Who decide the
other points?
Even if we have to use Average method (not my favorite
method) for
that, I
think we must create pages to vote on:
* Rules for submission
* Deadlines (too short imho)
* Logo vote method (pending...)
* Cheat handling
For submission I think we have better to have one main
page with only
the
author favorite logo (1 logo) plus a link to one page
per logo with all
variants.
> > Do we vote for a concept or for a final logo ?
>
> You vote for a final logo. There may be a need to
make a transparent
> version or a larger one, but no significant changes
to the winning
logo
> will be made without clear consensus.
If we vote for a final logo we need a lot of variant,
isn't it?
We can like a logo concept but prefer a different
color, font text,
contrast, frame style, etc.
For example, I see a lot of interesting logos variants
in the Paullus
page
(made by him?) and I think it may be great if we can
vote for all those
variants (and new ones).
Imho, encourage wikipedians to propose new logos
variants, is a better
way
to get the logo witch satisfy the most people. Sure,
finalists' authors
must
select themselves witch logos are in accord with there
own concept.
> > In other term do we have for
> > each variant of a logo or just for a concept ?
>
> You vote on each variant.
This must avoid FPTP method that disfavor logo with
the more variants.
> > What is the solutions to reduce vote cheating ?
>
> You need a user page on Meta that points to an
account with at least
10
> legitimate edits.
Who will check each user to see if (s)he done at least
10 edits ? What
about
people who contribute anonymously ?
I forgot an important question :
- Why are you so hurried with deadlines !?
Aoineko
-------
Rulezzzzzzz Aoi ;-)
Merci sinc�rement.
Anthere
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Erik wrote:
>Um, I'm not sure there even *is* a registered
>Wikipedia trademark, let alone in Russia.
>Until we have such a trademark, we can only
>ask them nicely to stop, but they're acting in full
> compliance with the law.
IIRC from my business law classes, registration is only needed before seeking
actual legal action in court (just as with copyright infringement). But
"Wikipedia" is still a trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation. That's why
registered trademarks and plain old trademarks have different symbols to
represent them. IANAL but the ru.Wikipedia/Wikipedia.ru use does seem to
cause a very real confusion as to what Russian "Wikipedia" is the actual one
that is part of the Wikimedia family.
Some relevant paras from http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark
A trademark (or, as referred to in Commonwealth
countries, a "trade mark") is a distinctive name,
phrase, symbol, design, picture, or style used by a
business to identify itself to consumers.
Like "Wikipedia"
Trademarking is a central legal component for
corporate branding.
The basic policy of trademark law is to prevent the
public from being deceived and allow the producer
of a product to have a specific product associated
with a specific manufacturer,
Like a wiki encyclopedia named "Wikipedia"
By identifying the source of goods or services, marks
help consumers to identify their expected quality and
assist in identifying goods and services that meet the
individual consumer's expectations.
Like our NPOV policy and standards of quality.
Another underlying purpose of trademark law is
protecting the owner's investment in the quality of the
goods or services sold under the mark known as dilution.
Allowing Wikipedia.ru to exist as a wiki encyclopedia will dilute our
trademark and encourage the creation of encyclopedias and similar things at
Wikipedia.us, Wikipedia.uk, Wikipedia.au, Wikipedia.fr, Wikipedia.de,
Wikipedia.info, Wikipedia.biz etc. The word "Wikipedia" would no longer be
associated with just our encyclopedia project - we will have lost control of
our trademark and IIRC once that happens we will not be able to regain
control either legally or practically.
Therefore, trademark law protects businesses from unfair
competition and deceptive advertising by their competitors
which can dilute the distinctiveness of a mark.
Like having a Wikipedia.ru with advertisements. We can't control what they
post and whether or not they sully the Wikipedia name.
But,
Atlanta-based Coca-Cola Corporation that sold a soft drink
called "Coke" in red and white cans would clearly be guilty
of trademark infringement, confusing consumers as to the
source of the product (though such confusion need not be
intentional to be infringing). On the other hand, a company
selling the carbonized coal byproduct called "coke" to steel
mills would not likely be guilty of infringement, because there
is little chance any consumer will mistake the two.
This is why I think Wikimedia.de is less of a problem.
However,
The advent of the Domain Name System has lead to attempts
by trademark holders to take over domain names based on
trade mark rights. Unlike a trademark, which is restricted by
country and class of goods, domain names can be global and
not limited by goods or service.
So IMO we are on pretty solid legal grounds here even without the last
paragraph (IMO, the last paragraph is a bit morally wrong and we shouldn't
approach this matter via that route unless forced to do so).
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
Erik wrote:
>The Condorcet vote is of no relevance whatsoever.
I agree. I've already voted once on this issue and will not vote again via
another method. Everyone who is voting via the Condorcet method is wasting
their time.
--mav
Please forgive my ignorance.
1. Are there members?
2. What are they members of?
3. How do they become members?
4. How do they know that they have been accepted?
It seems that when a person becomes a member he should receive a
membership certificate. This could be something that he can download and
print out to put in a frame and hang on the wall. It could have a fancy
border.
I haven't seen any information about this.
Merritt L. Perkins
Could a sep11.wikipedia.org sysop contact me? I've gotten a complaint
that's of a personal nature about one of the pages there, and I'd like
someone to look into it and protect a page. I'd rather not say which
one on the mailing list, because I don't want to repeat the apparent
slander or to publicize it more than necessary.
I would have just done this myself, but I'm not a sysop there, and
I had trouble figuring out how to make myself one!
Just for your information, there is some ways we can reduce the cheating.
I wrote one such way to prevent people from creating multiple account on
meta, and from voting in a disguise to be many different users (who is not
voting). It is not very simple, and perhaps it does not work well with
average voting. Details are here:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tomos
Best,
Tomos
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Till Westermayer wtote:
>Wikimedia.de seems to be a project bound to
>some progressive computer/ internet culture
>and politics projects, i.e. there are connections
>to the German Chaos Computer Club, to c-base,
>to the Informationsfreiheiten.de wiki (a connection
>of Berlin-based German Internet politics groups)
>and so on.
The scope of Wikimedia is pretty wide (and will get wider in the future). I'm
not sure how similar they would have to be to Wikimedia to create confusion
between us and them. I was more concerned with them suing us over trademark
violations under the same stupid German law that KDE Illustrator
(Killustrator) project was sued under (the Killustrator people were sued on
behalf of Adobe Illustrator even though Adobe Illustrator never asked the
litigators to do so!).
>I'm pretty sure they will disambiguate on their
>Wikimedia wiki, but I'm so sure they will give the
>domain to us.
I just don't want our German Wikimedians to get sued and I'm sure other
Wikimedians will want to visit Germany in the future too without fear of an
injunction. I don't think there will that much confusion over this and don't
think we should ask them to hand anything over.
Now Wikipedia.ru is another matter; they are illegally using the Wikipedia
trademark for a purpose that is nearly indistinguishable from ru.Wikipedia.
If Wikipedia.ru were selling spark plugs then we wouldn't have much if any
room to complain since that would not be a violation of our trademark (there
would be little, if any, confusion between the two products - theirs and
ours).
Of course, IANAL.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
Could somebody who sprechen German take a look at this?
http://wikimedia.de/bin/view/Main/WebHome
Have they been around as a wiki before our Wikimedia came into existence?
--- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
Erik wrote:
>Well, what do you propose as an alternative?
>People vote from all Wikipedias, including the
>very small ones, so it's very hard to track down
>individuals. I think the solution to require at least
>a redirect to an existing user page is a good one.
IMO in order to have your vote counted you must declare on your user page
which Wikipedia you are from an provide a link to your Wikipedia user page.
-- mav
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Christopher Mahan <chris_mahan(a)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Cheating on logo voting
>Question:
>Is voting open only to editors or to readers-only as
>well?
>I personally welcome input from all people, since it
is >in fact
>readers we are trying to reach with the logo, not
just >editors.
Good point !
Plus, we may have a bias
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