[repost as 1st didnt reach newsserver it seem]
Hello,
I was reading the History of Germany articles and found the navigation
table on the right quite useful:
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Germany
I think this will improve wikipedia just as much as the automatic table of
content did.
A way to implement this feature would be to point a parent article to all
it's childs and vice versa. That might be done using [[parent:articlename]]
and / or [[child:articlename]].
Let's look at an example:
History of Germany
-> Franks
-> Holy Roman Empire
-> German Confederation
-> German Empire
-> Weimar Republic
-> Nazi Germany
-> Germany since 1945
Franks article is interesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks) as it
is part of two series (History of France AND of Germany).
So the History of Germany will have:
[[child:Franks]]
And Franks will have:
[[parent:History of France]]
[[parent:History of Germany]]
Maybe we just need the parent tag ? Setting up a parent tag in an article
will automaticly update the parent article without using any child.
cheers,
--
Antoine
http://fr.wikipedia.org/
L'encyclopédie gratuite et libre.
Electronic Book Web has published an article that may be of interest
called "The Future of Online Reference" (
http://12.108.175.91/ebookweb/stories/storyReader$2407 ). Representitves
from Alacritude (publisher of eLibrary and encyclopedia.com), Questia and
Encyclopaedia Britannica are interviewed. Sadly, our little project does
not yet warrant a mention. ;-)
Stephen Gilbert
wikimedia funds should be public.
eg an account balance with details like the actual balance, and what has been purchased...
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I just got off the phone with Penguin. The machine build is on hold
as they are waiting for one part -- a 3 bay drive enclosure of all
things. They are now giving an estimated ship date of next Monday,
but they seemed to be trying to be conservative with that -- it really
depends on when the part comes in.
Yeah, I'm not happy about this, either.
Anyhow, I was invited to call back again later in the week for a more
definitive ETA. I will of course do so and report back to you at that
time.
--Jimbo
Anthere wrote:
>Still, proposition : what about waiting till that new
>server is there and working ? All the tech people
>discussing mirrors on the tech list for a good couple
>of months instead of 10 days ? And taking the next 6
>months to set a proper proposition for association ?
I agree - there is no hurry here. I just visited fr.wikipedia and it was very
fast. A new database server is also going to be set-up really soon and Brion
is already figuring out how to do webserver load balancing between different
machines. But when the time comes I'm sure we will be able to add a read-only
websever in France to the load balancing mix for fr.wikipedia. Either way all
edits should go to the database server in San Diego (which could then update
the cache of every webserver in near real-time).
Why would this need a French affiliate Wikimedia Foundation? Could the
Wikimedia Foundation just register in France as a non-profit? There are also
copyright concerns. I would like to see an affiliate EU Wikipedia Foundation
set-up, but I would not like to see us have to set-up affiliates in every
nation. That does not seem to be a practical solution.
Either way I just don't see a need to set-up affiliates right now. Shouldn't
we first put our energies into fully setting up the Wikipedia Foundation
before starting to set-up affiliates?
What's the hurry?
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
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Hi all,
Following my demand, the Ouvaton cooperative has offered to host a read only
mirror of the French Wikipedia with a budget of 1000 euros for a year in
hardware and bandwidth. For that it is necessary that a non profit
organisation to be set up in France. I drafted a project of status for this
according to French law. It is available at
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Statuts_pour_une_association_en_Fran…
Please, could you opinion on this ? And specially on
* special links between this French law organisation should have with the
Wikimedia foundation;
* technical setup you would recommend.
Regards,
Yann
- --
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence
http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclopédie libre
http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et services Linux
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From: Andre Engels <engels(a)uni-koblenz.de>
>> The problem with the current rollback is that it
just
>> revert to the previous edit. We would rather to
revert
>> to the previous edit before the user.
>As far as I know, that is what rollback does -
>reverting to the
>last edit of another user than the current one.
Yes. I just tested. This is true. I had always thought
it reverted just to the last edit. That is good news.
>> However, one disagreement with loggued in people is
>> that they can move pages. While anyone can revert
>> edits made by a vandal, only sysops can fix a move
>> back. That would be the only superior reason to
block
>> a user than I can see.
>No, when a page is moved, the original title will
>become a
>redirect without history, so any registered user can
>move it
>back. Problems only arise when a page has been moved
>more than
>once (in that case one will have to undo all moves in
>reverse
>order rather than doing it at once), or when the
>redirecting
>page has been edited (in that case one does indeed
>need sysop
>powers to first delete the redirecting page).
I am astonished. I just tried this, and yes, you are
right. I just did not know it was possible ! I thought
as soon as a page A had been moved to B, it was
necessary to delete A to move back to B !
That changes a lot of things. I am not sure french
people know this.
Ok thanks Andr�
PS : for my first attempt, I had a software error I
must say. The page A was indicated moved to B, it had
the redirect, it had no more history but the
redirect...but there was no page at B ...hum
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I was discussing possible measures against this guy on
the IRC channel.
I came to the conclusion that the best feature to
implement would be a
method for quickly rolling back page creation.
Possibly, sysops could
have a column of checkboxes on RC. They would then be
able to tick all
the Papotages-related edits, and roll them back in one
request.
Perhaps this could be submitted to Sourceforge feature
requests.
-- Tim Starling
that would be an idea.
The problem with the current rollback is that it just
revert to the previous edit. We would rather to revert
to the previous edit before the user.
I did not block him as it is easier to track a user
name than various ips.
However, one disagreement with loggued in people is
that they can move pages. While anyone can revert
edits made by a vandal, only sysops can fix a move
back. That would be the only superior reason to block
a user than I can see.
thanks tim
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Tim Starling <ts4294967296 at hotmail.com> writes:
> I was discussing possible measures against this guy on the IRC
> channel. I came to the conclusion that the best feature to implement
> would be a method for quickly rolling back page creation. Possibly,
> sysops could have a column of checkboxes on RC.
I like this idea. IMO, a better implementation idea would be to add rollback
checkboxes to every top edit displayed on their contributions page (maybe
with non-top edits automatically grayed out). At the top there simply would
be a "select all" option. However I still can do 2-3 rollbacks a second when
the server is running fast (gotta love scroll wheels on Linux - press them on
a link and it opens in a new window). So I wouldn't benefit much from such a
feature, but from a few frustrating experiences using rollback on a massive
scale at work (on MS Windows), I know it isn't as easy for many people
(whoever thought it would be a good idea to have 'auto-scroll' enabled when
pressing down on the scroll wheel should be shot!).
What I would love to see is the addition of diffs to user contrib pages. That
would make checking of anon edits go much faster (you can't just assume that
every edit ever made by a vandal's IP is also a vandalism).
Anything that gives us the upper hand against vandals is a good thing; if it
is easier for us to repair damage than it is for vandals to create it, then
that removes much of the incentive for vandals to make a mess of the place
and gives us tools to make cleaning up any mess when it does happen much
easier. It also allows us to keep our doors wide open. All good things.
-- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)
> Anthere, pourquoi es-tu si n�gative ?
just as usual
to slow down hasty decisions
> Le Sunday 09 November 2003 17:33, Anthere a �crit :
> > > > > >Quelle est la proc�dure maintenant ?
> > > > >
> > > > > c'est nouveau pour nous, faut que je vois.
> on va
> > > > > faire �a vite.
> > > >
> > > > Pourquoi vite ? Ou est l urgence pr�cisemment
> ?
> > >
> > > En fait, Ouvaton avait pris cette d�cision il y
> a au
> > > moins une semaine d�j�,
> > > mais ils viennent seulement de m'en informer,
> apr�s
> > > que je les ai relanc�.
> >
> > Je ne vois toujours pas en quoi nous serions
> press�s
> > et n aurions pas le temps d en discuter
> > tranquillement, d un point de vue international.
>
> Mais je n'ai pas dit qu'il y avait urgence. C'est
> toi qui a interpr�t� les
> choses de cette fa�on.
Yann said "But I didnot say there was urgency. It is
you who interpretated things that way"
Sure Yann
In this mail,
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikifr-l/2003-November/000992.html
you write "c'est nouveau pour nous, faut que je vois.
on va faire �a vite."
->it is new to us, I have to consider this. We will
have to do this very quickly
And in this mail, you suggest the first assembly to
take place on the 22 nd of november, and that
meanwhile, we should agree on status, board and other
minor problems
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikifr-l/2003-November/000996.html
But undoubtely, it was just interpretation
> > Il ne me semble pas que nous ayons a suivre
> Ouvaton
> > dans leurs objectifs.
>
> ??? Que veux-tu dire ? Le seul objectif d'Ouvaton,
> c'est d'aider Wikip�dia.
> Faut arr�ter la parano.
Yann said that the only goal of Ouvaton was to help
Wikipedia, and that I was paranoid in saying we did
not have to be hasty just because Ouvaton had agreed
to host us (and could perhaps change their mind if we
took too much time)
I know very few commercial firms that would do things
for free. There is always an interest. In that case,
the adress being ouvaton.wikipedia.fr for example.
Do we want that ?
> > > Les serveurs de Ouvaton sont � Paris.
> > >
> > > > Et pour mon autre question : qui aura la
> > > > responsabilit� l�gale en cas de probl�me ?
> > >
> > > C'est une bonne question. ;o)
> > > Peut-on d�cider de qui aura la responsabilit�
> l�gale
> > > du miroir ?
> > > Je n'en sais rien. Perso, �a ne m'inqui�te pas
> > > tellement pour l'instant.
> >
> > moi oui.
> > Il y a du mat�riel sur fr qui ne respecte pas les
> lois
> > fran�aises
>
> Peux-tu pr�ciser ?
I said to Yann we had some material on the french
wikipedia that could be problematic with french law,
and that it could be eventually a problem.
He asked me to be more precise.
-> Fair use is not a doctrine recognised in France
> > > Je suis pr�t � prendre cette responsabilit� si
> > > n�cessaire.
> >
> > Tu as des connaissances l�gales ?
>
> J'ai l'exp�rience de g�rer des associations et du
> droit d'auteur, en
> particulier li� � Internet.
I asked Yann who would have legal responsability in
case of a problem (such as copyright issues). He said
he was ready to carry that responsability. I asked him
if he had legal knowledge. He answered he was
experienced in managing information, author rights, in
particular as related to Internet.
Fair use as well ?
> > Pour quelles raisons serait tu jug� responsable
> par la
> > loi d actions ill�gales commises par les autres ?
>
> C'est pour cela que le probl�me ne se pose pas pour
> l'instant.
> En particlier, pas dans les termes que tu sembles
> sugg�rer.
I asked why he would be as an individual responsible
for our legal issues. He answered there were no
problem right now.
> > > Le probl�me, c'est plut�t : que doit-on copier
> sur
> > > le miroir ?
> > > 1. Tout.
> > > 2. Uniquement les articles encyclop�diques.
> > > 3. Une selection des articles encyclop�diques.
> > > 4. ?
> >
> > la r�ponse est �vidente. A mes yeux. Une
> association
> > francaise est soumise a la loi francaise
> > si elle veut ne pas etre attaqu�e puis condamnee,
> elle
> > doit respecter la loi
>
> Tout � fait, mais ma question n'est pas li�e � un
> probl�me juridique, mais
> encyclop�dique.
He asked what would be copied on the miror,
everything, only encyclopedic articles, a selection of
encyclopedic articles
That is a good question :-)
Who would do the job of selecting the articles every
night ? :)
> > donc, nous ne pouvons pas y mettre tout.
> > Qui va s occuper de faire le tri ?
>
> Je propose des solutions en fonctions des
> informations que j'ai.
> Rien n'est d�cid�, en particulier, pour les
> questions techniques.
>
> > Mais pourquoi toute la communaut� a t elle a etre
> impliqu�e ?
>
> J'entends bien que c'est un projet de Wikip�dia, pas
> un projet personnel.
> C'est pourquoi il faut cr�er une association.
I asked why the whole community had to be involved in
a simple mirror setting ?
He said it was not a personal project and that was why
we had to create an association
I say that is why we have to talk about it before
creating an association
> > Oui. A ce propos, Jimbo appr�cierait qu'on lui
> parle
> > un peu de ce projet. Je pense qu'il serait pas mal
> que
> > Yann parle de ceci sur la
> wikipedia-l(a)wikipedia.org
>
> C'est fait. Brion est d�j� au courant car je lui ai
> demand� des infos
> techniques.
and what are the answers ? Brion ?
> > Wikipedia.org est un projet international. Commun.
> > Avec 40 langues diff�rentes. Pas un projet franco
> > fran�ais. Ce que tu es en train de proposer.
>
> Non, c'est simplement un miroir de la partie
> francophone.
I said that wikipedia was one project in several
languages, not several encyclopedia, and that what he
was suggesting was a french-french project (the server
will only host french wikipedia).
He answered that no, it was only a mirror of the
french wikipedia.
In this mail
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikifr-l/2003-November/001004.html
you specifically say that this is a temporary solution
before we set a read and write server
> > D'un point de vue technique, il me semble avoir
> > compris que la mise en place de pls serveurs
> poserait
> > plus de pb qu'il n'en r�soudrait.
>
> S'ils sont en lecture et �criture, oui. En lecture
> simple, non.
I said I understood that I understood there would be
more pb raised than pb solved by the proposition (I
personnnaly do not know)
He says, not if the server is read only.
But here In this mail
http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikifr-l/2003-November/001004.html
he says read is only temporary
what are the technical issues in both cases then ?
> > Je pense que ce que tu proposes est un RightToFork
>
> Non.
This should not need translation.
What is the argument ?
> > En bref, demain, plus besoin du serveur am�ricain
> > l'encyclop�die est franco-fran�aise et le reste du
> > projet ne nous importe plus.
>
> Anthere, peux-tu �tre POSITIVE de temps en temps ?
He says I should be positive sometimes :-)
He is right of course :-)))
> Je r�p�te si je n'ai pas �t� assez clair.
> J'ai fait des propositions. J'attends des
> contre-propositions. Pas des
> r�futations ou des blocages pour le plaisir.
He says he is doing propositions; he waits counter
propositions, not blocking just for pleasure
I apology Yann, but I do not do this for pleasure, but
out of interest and concern for the project. I think
any proposition should be dissected before being
accepted, and who would dissect your proposition but
me ? :-)
What I do is discussion, to reach consensus. That is
the way we do on Wikipedia. I see not where your
problem is with it.
> Yann
> - --
> http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur
> la non-violence
> http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/ | Encyclop�die libre
> http://www.forget-me.net/pro/ | Formations et
> services Linux
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