Wikipedia-l November 2003

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71 participants
98 discussions

Server update
by Jimmy Wales 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

The part that penguincomputing has been waiting on is now due to be in tomorrow. They will build the system, do the 2 day burn-in, and ship it on Thursday, assuming nothing goes wrong. This will mean, I think, that Jason will have it Friday or Monday. It'll be up to him exactly when he goes to San Diego to install it, but early next week anyway. --Jimbo

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please help me
by PROJATA 17 Nov '03

17 Nov '03

Hi, I use program : webstripper. This program can download site from internet. I'm student and I want download sites with mathematic. I tray download http://pl.wikipedia.org with program Webstripper. After not good download I can't see pl.wikipedia.org because server write in my screen this text : " Forbidden You don't have permission to access / on this server. Apache/1.3.28 Server at pl.wikipedia.org Port 80 " I have contact with designer of webstripper and he say : " I can't help you. You must contact with webmaster(a)wikipedia.org ." PLEASE HELP ME BACUSE I DON'T HAVE E-MAIL TO WIKIPEDIA AND I'M NOT ROBBER OR PIRAT , I'M STUDENT. SORRY MY ENGLISH BUT I LERNING 2 WEEKS. I want see pl.wikipedia.org . If not possible : download wikipedia in extension program how webstripper, then I want see in Internet Explorer. P> Best regards, P> Andrew

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Re: Blocking and promotion
by Anthere 15 Nov '03

15 Nov '03

> > So, I am asking help here, either from someone who > would feel like doing something (in truth, I do not > think any of the french-speaking person is interested > in discussing with him constructively), or from > someone who will find a technical suggestion (going as > far as blocking half of switzerland :-)). Either way. > > I am done with it. > > This is the IP ranges that he use: colt.ch: 212.23.252.0 - 212.23.255.255 tele2.ch: 212.152.0.0 - 212.152.15.255 tele2.ch: 213.103.0.0 - 213.103.159.255 ch-sunrise: 62.167.0.0 - 62.167.255.255 bluewin.ch: 62.202.0.0 - 62.202.15.255 ----- Just as a reference, for I just checked On the unique day of 14th of november, PP created 100 pages (+/-5) that were deleted. This is not counting the pages that had to be reverted. Sensible times are during the night, because there is not necessarily a sysop to revert. I would like to mention an article on wiki was published on the 12th of november. http://www.fing.org/index.php?num=4229,2 It makes extensive reference to wikipedia, and especially the french wikipedia. I must add however, that it also makes very clear reference to our current issue with Papotages and the limits of wiki process and ability to handle disagreement. ---------- Aux limites de la collaboration Pour autant, l'�laboration de projets wiki plus structur�s peut donner naissance � des probl�mes complexes, de nature �ditoriale ou m�me �thique. Wikipedia est un bon cas d'�cole en la mati�re. Par nature, l'encyclop�die se veut "neutre" et se doit de pr�senter "le plus objectivement possible" les articles qu'elle contient. Lorsqu'il s'agit de l'article relatif � la tour Eiffel (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_Eiffel), la chose est simple. Mais pour des sujets plus sensibles, la difficult� est toute autre. Ainsi, la branche fran�aise de Wikipedia a-t-elle �t� le th��tre r�cent d'un vaste d�bat portant sur l'article consacr� aux sectes (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectes). Ayant subi plus de 300 modifications depuis sa cr�ation en juin dernier, l'article a notamment vu s'opposer des auteurs r�put�s "neutres" � un repr�sentant du mouvement Ra�lien. Amendements et contre-amendements se sont succ�d�s � un rythme soutenu sur la page incrimin�e, marquant des dissensions de fond sur la question sectaire et ce qu'il convient de d�finir comme tel. Il est d'ailleurs pr�cis� sur la page relative aux sectes que "cet article est soup�onn� de ne pas respecter la neutralit� de point de vue de mise sur l'encyclop�die Wikipedia" et que, "son contenu ne devant pas �tre consid�r� comme objectif", l'utilisateur est invit� � consulter l'int�gralit� des �changes ayant eu lieu sur la question, et � y participer. L'anecdote ne jette bien s�r pas le discr�dit sur Wikipedia-Fr et les 18 000 articles de qualit� qu'elle contient � ce jour. Mais elle montre, l� aussi de fa�on paradoxale, les limites et l'int�r�t du wiki. ---------- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Blocking
by Anthere 14 Nov '03

14 Nov '03

I...please...would like some help/suggestions. I hereby annonce giving up soft security attempts with Papotages. I think I have tried to the latest end I possibly could. And now, to my shame, I decided to give up. Criticisms toward me trying to do this is is part of my decision, but today it is also clear that it is not efficient in the end. Now, given that : when his user name was blocked, he created 9 vandal user names and went on. Given that after his 10 user names were blocked, he went on with ips, I wonder if it is very valuable to try the same pattern, and to meet the same problems. So, I am asking help here, either from someone who would feel like doing something (in truth, I do not think any of the french-speaking person is interested in discussing with him constructively), or from someone who will find a technical suggestion (going as far as blocking half of switzerland :-)). Either way. I am done with it. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Good news: www.wikipedia.de is back
by Thomas Luft 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Hi, thanks to the efforts of Armin Klempert (akl) wikipedia.de is registered to Kurt again. Armin contacted the domain grabber and persuaded him to hand wikipedia.de back to us. Great work! The changes will take some time but you can see the first signs of the switch using the whois interface of http://www.denic.de/ Regards Thomas (aka Urbanus)

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Re: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Setting a new server in France for french wikipedia
by user_Jamesday 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Addressing various points: 1. Does the main Wikipedia/Wikimedia foundation really want to be located on French soil and subject to French law with all international funds subject to judgements by French courts? I don't think that's wise unless it can't be avoided. 2. Technically, isn't a caching proxy server a better idea? That way, those in France can avoid the transatlantic round trip time increases but still edit the main wikipedia/Wikimedia databases. (Mav, that's something your test didn't show, unless you were doing it from a French proxy service) 3. Caching proxies seem like a better way to obtain legal isolation, since proxies and caching are fairly widely accepted as being different from the sites they are caching. I assume that the French foundation can be set up as a non-proft dedicated to increasing the responsiveness of the Wikipedia when accessed from within France. 4. This is also a nice model for local caches around the world.

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precisions in translation
by Anthere 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Jimbo said >> What would be required for the >> existing Wikimedia Foundation to register as a >>French nonprofit, or to >> setup a French affiliate organization. Yann answered >Set up a French non profit is very simple. You need >three people (a president, >a secretary and a treasurer), to draft some status >(many exemples are >available on the Net) and to pay about 25 euros for >registration. I have done >this already several times. I think this is not what Jimbo asked. He asked how the currently american foundation could register a "filiale" (related society) in France, so to be able to pay for hosting server, receive donation, purchase domain name. I think you answered only on how to set a regular foundation, which is different. I think he is looking for information about how setting a "filiale" is possible, not a french organisation. This is the notion of "association �trang�re" where the main part of the society is out of our territory. What are the legal requirements to do that ? >> > * special links between this French law >>>organisation should have with the >>> Wikimedia foundation; > >> The Wikimedia Foundation owns all rights to the >>'Wikimedia' and >> 'Wikipedia' trademarks, and it is going to be best >>if this new >> organization is fully 100% under the control of the >>parent >> organization. This does not preclude local >>organization and control >> to an extent, but the Wikimedia Foundation must be >>the decision maker >> of last resort. >> This is necessary to prevent a split in the future >>that would be bad >> for the project. >I agree totally with that. It just needs to be >mentioned in the status. I do not think that *just* mentioning it in the status is enough to define an foreign association. Otherwise, the french association and the "foreigh association" would not be legally differently defined. No ? >And the status could mention that you would be ex >officio member of the French >non profit as the founder of Wikipedia. That would be nice, but if wikipedia france is not really legally related to wikimedia, I do not think a member will have more weight on it that another. >> On the other hand, I am willing to provide one, at >>my own expense, if >> it is the consensus of Europeans that it would be a >>good thing. >The Ouvaton cooperative said that they will provide >one. Jimbo is suggesting that HE (or the foundation) pays for a server for Europe. Are you answering that Ouvaton would donate a server to the french association ? Or that Ouvato would lease one in exchange of a fee? If wikimedia can provide a server itself, and be the owner of it, rather than doing a location, would not it be best ? >> A non profit organisation in France or in Europe >>could also help to >> receive tax deductible donations and to ease money >>transfers. > Yes. I would imagine that it's not that difficult >to setup an > affiliate organization there. > In the U.S., we have Alex who has volunteered to act >for free as our > lawyer, and he is helping me finalize all the bylaws >for the US > organization. Will donations made to a french association, transferred to an american one, tax deductible in the US ? >>Can you help me look for a French or European lawyer >>who can do the same over there? >Yes, I can, but it is usually not necessary to set up >a French non profit. Please do Yann. It is not setting up an association that is difficult, it is to set up the relationship with the main one that is. It would be nice to know how the huge ngos for example do in this kind of situation. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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New Mention of Wikipedia
by rose.parks＠att.net 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Dear Members, In a weekly newsletter called Site Point Tech Times there is a long article about Wikis. It mentions Wikipedia a number of times, and all remarks are favorable. I have attached the newsletter (I hope). As Ever, Ruth Ifcher -- ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: "Kevin Yank" <techtimes(a)sitepoint.com> To: <rose.parks(a)att.net> Subject: SitePoint Tech Times #77 - Multiple IE Versions / XAML and Sparkle Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:23:54 -0800

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Khranus' talk page edits
by Sascha Noyes 12 Nov '03

12 Nov '03

I'm at whits end with the edits that Khranus makes to talk pages. He added this comment to the Robert Mugabe talk page (http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robert_Mugabe).: ---- Mugabe is an asshole, and should be hanged for having deceived the people of Zimbabwe into believing that he was going to help 'liberate' them. Kofi Annan is another example of a corrupt, authoritarian motherfucker. The UN in general has made liberating mid-Africa near-impossible--they have only served to further enslave a people who have for the past couple hundred years taken more crap than any other region on Earth. Khranus ---- I reverted it a couple of times but gave up after another user posted a response to the effect that such rants are not allowed on talk page. My lingering concern is the possibility of libel action against wikipedia. notice that allmost all other discussion sites have a notice to the effect that the comments represent the view not of the site but only of the author, blah, legalese, blah. With an implied death threat such as the above, we are probably better off adding such a disclaimer talk pages. Also, I think Khranus should be banned. Best, Sascha Noyes -- Please encrypt all email. Public key available from www.pantropy.net/snoyes.asc

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information leaflet
by Lars Aronsson 12 Nov '03

12 Nov '03

Is there an information leaflet (PDF) about Wikipedia that I can print and put on display at my local library? They are paying for a subscription to Encyclopaedia Britannica online, and it would be nice to provide information on a free alternative. It could also be nice to hear from librarians what comments they get from visitors when they recommend both Britannica and Wikipedia. The leaflet should be glossy and eye-catching with a nice layout. Printing the "Wikipedia:about" HTML page is not an alternative. It could be a single full page or a three-fold. I found an Esperanto three-fold on http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_promotion_material and I think an English translation of that (with other citations on the back) would be perfect. If more material is available elsewhere, I guess links should be put on that meta page. -- Lars Aronsson (lars(a)aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se/

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Wikipedia-l November 2003