Hoi, On the nl:wikipedia there is a controversy about a troll. This troll has been blocked repeatedly for a period of an increasing length. This user is the persona of a known anonymous vandal who has a history of using different IP-numbers. When he was banned for a week, he started with sockpupputs. His ban was extended to a month.
In the mean time one users tried to mediate, but made the mistake to identify to much with one party and not listening to the others. The discussions both in IRC and on the nl:wikipedia became increasingly acrimonious. It resulted in the discussion being moved to another wikipedia and in the mediator being blocked and kickbanned for insulting.
For your information I am NOT involved in this quarrel.
I have however a problem with the fact that a small wikipedia, the ia:wikipedia (Interlingua) is abused by being the host for a quarrel of another wikipedia. I think this is unacceptable. I would appreciate some discussion about this and as much as I hate rules, I think if there must be a rule to prevent this, so be it.
Thanks, GerardM
Hi all,
I don't know whether my message will get through on the foundation list (since I am not subscribed), but I want to make some corrections.
* Gerard Meijssen:
This user is the persona of a known anonymous vandal who has a history of using different IP-numbers.
...which could be his provider's policy, and cannot be used as a charge against him.
When he was banned for a week, he started with sockpupputs.
It is not proven the aliases were his. One of the aliases posted on Wikipedia that he is not the 'troll', and the 'troll' has always denied he had these sockpuppets.
In the mean time one users tried to mediate, but made the mistake to identify to much with one party and not listening to the others.
Not one user. A mediating committee has been created, on the initiative of this user. More people are part of this committee, including myself.
This user might have identified too much with one party, but on the other hand the other party did not really co-operate in the mediation.
It resulted in the discussion being moved to another wikipedia
Yes, the discussion turned into a chaos, and the person who initiated the mediating committee created a space on another wikipedia, where the mediating could take place without too much interference of other users.
For your information I am NOT involved in this quarrel.
But you did take a standpoint in the vote about a ban for the 'troll'.
(I tried only to make corrections, and to omit my personal opinion.)
Sander [[nl:Gebruiker:SanderSpek]]
Hi all,
Sander, thanks for your clarifications. I would, however, like to see us not discussing the details of the troll(s), etcetera, but what Gerard formulated as "I have however a problem with the fact that a small wikipedia, the ia:wikipedia (Interlingua) is abused by being the host for a quarrel of another wikipedia. I think this is unacceptable. I would appreciate some discussion about this and as much as I hate rules, I think if there must be a rule to prevent this, so be it."
First of all, I don't have (and don't particularly want to have) any knowledge of what exactly went on, _before_ (as per the description of Gerard) the moving of a quarrel from one wikipedia to another, but I can't but agree with him that people who start a quarrel in their local pub shouldn't move to another pub down the road to fight it out.
As to the enforcement of this sentiment: well, yeah, I suppose it would have to be a rule, and it would require policing for enforcement. I'm not entirely sure, however, if such a rule wouldn't be too specific for it's own good, if you catch my drift.
Just my 2c,
-Erwin
Sander Spek wrote:
Hi all,
I don't know whether my message will get through on the foundation list (since I am not subscribed), but I want to make some corrections.
- Gerard Meijssen:
This user is the persona of a known anonymous vandal who has a history of using different IP-numbers.
...which could be his provider's policy, and cannot be used as a charge against him.
When he was banned for a week, he started with sockpupputs.
It is not proven the aliases were his. One of the aliases posted on Wikipedia that he is not the 'troll', and the 'troll' has always denied he had these sockpuppets.
In the mean time one users tried to mediate, but made the mistake to identify to much with one party and not listening to the others.
Not one user. A mediating committee has been created, on the initiative of this user. More people are part of this committee, including myself.
This user might have identified too much with one party, but on the other hand the other party did not really co-operate in the mediation.
It resulted in the discussion being moved to another wikipedia
Yes, the discussion turned into a chaos, and the person who initiated the mediating committee created a space on another wikipedia, where the mediating could take place without too much interference of other users.
For your information I am NOT involved in this quarrel.
But you did take a standpoint in the vote about a ban for the 'troll'.
(I tried only to make corrections, and to omit my personal opinion.)
Sander [[nl:Gebruiker:SanderSpek]]
Hi all,
I'm the one who decided to discuss the things at IA.wikipedia for some reasons: -The blocked user can not join a talk at NL, because he has been blocked. The online way to talk with him is outside NL.wikipedia. -At NL we could not talk normally about the case, because too many users are involving theirselves. Everybody is able to join the talk after sending me an email message, like I anounced. -De discussion at IA does not trouble anybody, because it's lonely. We don't discuss the case in a pub, we use a special page in the Wikipedia namespace.
If we are doing something really bad, I'm sorry. I act there with the best meaning, trying to solve the conflict.
Greetings,
Johan Bos (Jcb)
----- Original Message ----- From: "Erwin Wessels" erwin@transpontine.com To: "De discussielijst van de Nederlandstalige Wikipedia" wikinl-l@wikipedia.org; "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" foundation-l@wikimedia.org Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [WikiNL-l] Fight spilling over into the ia.wikipedia
Hi all,
Sander, thanks for your clarifications. I would, however, like to see us not discussing the details of the troll(s), etcetera, but what Gerard formulated as "I have however a problem with the fact that a small wikipedia, the ia:wikipedia (Interlingua) is abused by being the host for a quarrel of another wikipedia. I think this is unacceptable. I would appreciate some discussion about this and as much as I hate rules, I think if there must be a rule to prevent this, so be it."
First of all, I don't have (and don't particularly want to have) any knowledge of what exactly went on, _before_ (as per the description of Gerard) the moving of a quarrel from one wikipedia to another, but I can't but agree with him that people who start a quarrel in their local pub shouldn't move to another pub down the road to fight it out.
As to the enforcement of this sentiment: well, yeah, I suppose it would have to be a rule, and it would require policing for enforcement. I'm not entirely sure, however, if such a rule wouldn't be too specific for it's own good, if you catch my drift.
Just my 2c,
-Erwin
Sander Spek wrote:
Hi all,
I don't know whether my message will get through on the foundation list (since I am not subscribed), but I want to make some corrections.
- Gerard Meijssen:
This user is the persona of a known anonymous vandal who has a history of using different IP-numbers.
...which could be his provider's policy, and cannot be used as a charge against him.
When he was banned for a week, he started with sockpupputs.
It is not proven the aliases were his. One of the aliases posted on Wikipedia that he is not the 'troll', and the 'troll' has always denied he had these sockpuppets.
In the mean time one users tried to mediate, but made the mistake to identify to much with one party and not listening to the others.
Not one user. A mediating committee has been created, on the initiative of this user. More people are part of this committee, including myself.
This user might have identified too much with one party, but on the other hand the other party did not really co-operate in the mediation.
It resulted in the discussion being moved to another wikipedia
Yes, the discussion turned into a chaos, and the person who initiated the mediating committee created a space on another wikipedia, where the mediating could take place without too much interference of other users.
For your information I am NOT involved in this quarrel.
But you did take a standpoint in the vote about a ban for the 'troll'.
(I tried only to make corrections, and to omit my personal opinion.)
Sander [[nl:Gebruiker:SanderSpek]]
WikiNL-l discussielijst WikiNL-l@wikipedia.org http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikinl-l