As others mentioned in the thread, WMF can't enforce this directly as it is not the copyright holder. However, in past instances, we have raised the issue with Google (similar to the KPN example) and will do so for this one as well.
I am meeting with Google later today and will flag this to remind them of the copyright obligations that come with using this text.
Thanks for surfacing this,
Nicholas
On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 12:58 PM wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Peter Southwood)
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Ciell Wikipedia)
- Re: [Small Wiki Toolkit] Writing Wikidata Queries Using WDQS Tool
Workshop On Tuesday, August 30th, 16:00 UTC (Seyram Komla Sapaty)
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:18:53 +0200 From: "Peter Southwood" peter.southwood@telkomsa.net Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? To: "'F. Xavier Dengra i Grau'" xavier.dengra@protonmail.com, "'Wikimedia Mailing List'" wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 002201d8bc51$8963c6a0$9c2b53e0$@telkomsa.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01D8BC62.4CF06730"
If I understand the CC-by-sa licence correctly, Wikipedia and WMF themselves do not own the copyright, it is owned by the contributors who created the text. They can take this up with Google, the WMF cannot. If you are one of those contributors you can approach Google as misusing your copyright.
Cheers, Peter
From: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau via Wikimedia-l [mailto: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org] Sent: 29 August 2022 19:00 To: Wikimedia Mailing List; legal@wikimedia.org Cc: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license?
Hi all,
I want to bring a legal concern here on Google's misuse of our content. It came up today < https://twitter.com/epineda/status/1564143156702199813?s=20&t=z2xu6PMB29... on Twitter that the GoogleTV app had linked a movie description text in Catalan language (which in principle it should be good news regarding language normalization). However, shortly after a wikipedian colleague realised that the text was fully taken by the Catalan Wikipedia. Once I downloaded the app by myself, I double-checked that Google does not specify anywhere (or at least that I could find minimally visible) that those lines belong to Wikipedia: neither the origin, the license, nor a link to the full article or to the CC license.
I'd like to recall the licensing footpage on Wikipedia (Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0 < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution... ) and its conditions, as well as to ask others to check whether there's more situations like this one. It's worth noting how wrong this is to minoritised language Wikipedias: not only the legal issue itself, but also the lack of legitimate clicks and views that we end up losing, the confusion and misunderstandings from the readers that think this is a win by Google (the example I shared, with both screenshots enclosed), and even a subsequent chicken-and-egg situation that can lead to deleted articles by some users thinking that the content was stolen from Google and not actually the opposite.
I remember that there was a previous thread here, not so long ago, about the problems of Google taking over our data and therefore diminishing clicks to the Wikimedia projects. Considering that I am fully against the GAFAM-drift that the WMF is increasingly adopting by benefiting from Google in our human, economical and digital structures, I prefer to share it here as well -and not only to the legal team of the WMF (cced).
Kind regards,
Xavier Dengra
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I think the official WMF stance that it is functionally powerless is the wrong one to take. WMF should be much more aggressive, even if Google is a major donor to WMF.
On Tue, Aug 30, 2022, 11:16 AM Nicholas Perry nperry@wikimedia.org wrote:
As others mentioned in the thread, WMF can't enforce this directly as it is not the copyright holder. However, in past instances, we have raised the issue with Google (similar to the KPN example) and will do so for this one as well.
I am meeting with Google later today and will flag this to remind them of the copyright obligations that come with using this text.
Thanks for surfacing this,
Nicholas
On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 12:58 PM wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Peter Southwood)
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Ciell Wikipedia)
- Re: [Small Wiki Toolkit] Writing Wikidata Queries Using WDQS Tool
Workshop On Tuesday, August 30th, 16:00 UTC (Seyram Komla Sapaty)
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:18:53 +0200 From: "Peter Southwood" peter.southwood@telkomsa.net Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? To: "'F. Xavier Dengra i Grau'" xavier.dengra@protonmail.com, "'Wikimedia Mailing List'" wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 002201d8bc51$8963c6a0$9c2b53e0$@telkomsa.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01D8BC62.4CF06730"
If I understand the CC-by-sa licence correctly, Wikipedia and WMF themselves do not own the copyright, it is owned by the contributors who created the text. They can take this up with Google, the WMF cannot. If you are one of those contributors you can approach Google as misusing your copyright.
Cheers, Peter
From: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau via Wikimedia-l [mailto: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org] Sent: 29 August 2022 19:00 To: Wikimedia Mailing List; legal@wikimedia.org Cc: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license?
Hi all,
I want to bring a legal concern here on Google's misuse of our content. It came up today < https://twitter.com/epineda/status/1564143156702199813?s=20&t=z2xu6PMB29... on Twitter that the GoogleTV app had linked a movie description text in Catalan language (which in principle it should be good news regarding language normalization). However, shortly after a wikipedian colleague realised that the text was fully taken by the Catalan Wikipedia. Once I downloaded the app by myself, I double-checked that Google does not specify anywhere (or at least that I could find minimally visible) that those lines belong to Wikipedia: neither the origin, the license, nor a link to the full article or to the CC license.
I'd like to recall the licensing footpage on Wikipedia (Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0 < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution... ) and its conditions, as well as to ask others to check whether there's more situations like this one. It's worth noting how wrong this is to minoritised language Wikipedias: not only the legal issue itself, but also the lack of legitimate clicks and views that we end up losing, the confusion and misunderstandings from the readers that think this is a win by Google (the example I shared, with both screenshots enclosed), and even a subsequent chicken-and-egg situation that can lead to deleted articles by some users thinking that the content was stolen from Google and not actually the opposite.
I remember that there was a previous thread here, not so long ago, about the problems of Google taking over our data and therefore diminishing clicks to the Wikimedia projects. Considering that I am fully against the GAFAM-drift that the WMF is increasingly adopting by benefiting from Google in our human, economical and digital structures, I prefer to share it here as well -and not only to the legal team of the WMF (cced).
Kind regards,
Xavier Dengra
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Le 30/08/2022 à 17:47, The Cunctator a écrit :
I think the official WMF stance that it is functionally powerless is the wrong one to take. WMF should be much more aggressive, even if Google is a major donor to WMF.
Hello,
When someone or an organization reuse the Wikipedia content without out attributions, they are breaching the license which literally ask: "You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author". Legally speaking I don't think the foundation can sue since it hasn't any claim on the content, the author has to do it. But it doesn't mean the foundation is powerless, it can provides legal assistance to author and it has a strong enough voice to relay a message from one of the contributions. That is what I call "having a high karma".
Whenever I need assistance from a third party, I would open my request with a line such as:
/"Hello, I am working for Wikimedia, the foundation behind Wikipedia. May you <insert request>"./
Every single time I had a positive response and people were going above and beyond to assist, not me, but the projects. It is extremely powerful.
If we became aggressive and helped sue every single misuse of the licensed contents, the perceived message would certainly be that Wikis content is unsafe to use since it exposes one to legal retaliations. I am pretty sure the receivers would immediately remove all contents and never look back.
I don't think being aggressive would achieve our goals, but we definitely have all the powers to educate people and organizations on the license and how to reuse the content.
Antoine "hashar" Musso
Hi Nicholas,
Which was the outcome of the meeting with Google regarding the misuse of Wikipedia content by Google TV?
After almost three months, I’ve seen no change (citation and/or link addition to the article) on the summary of the movie. However, since quite recently they link all titles with their respective Rotten Tomatoes critics at the bottom of the page.
I think we should clearly not give up on this.
Kind regards,
Xavier Dengra
El dt, 30 ag., 2022 a 15:41, Nicholas Perry nperry@wikimedia.org va escriure:
As others mentioned in the thread, WMF can't enforce this directly as it is not the copyright holder. However, in past instances, we have raised the issue with Google (similar to the KPN example) and will do so for this one as well.
I am meeting with Google later today and will flag this to remind them of the copyright obligations that come with using this text.
Thanks for surfacing this,
Nicholas
On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 12:58 PM wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Peter Southwood)
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Ciell Wikipedia)
- Re: [Small Wiki Toolkit] Writing Wikidata Queries Using WDQS Tool Workshop On Tuesday, August 30th, 16:00 UTC
(Seyram Komla Sapaty)
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:18:53 +0200 From: "Peter Southwood" peter.southwood@telkomsa.net Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? To: "'F. Xavier Dengra i Grau'" xavier.dengra@protonmail.com, "'Wikimedia Mailing List'" wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 002201d8bc51$8963c6a0$9c2b53e0$@telkomsa.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01D8BC62.4CF06730"
If I understand the CC-by-sa licence correctly, Wikipedia and WMF themselves do not own the copyright, it is owned by the contributors who created the text. They can take this up with Google, the WMF cannot. If you are one of those contributors you can approach Google as misusing your copyright.
Cheers, Peter
From: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau via Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org] Sent: 29 August 2022 19:00 To: Wikimedia Mailing List; legal@wikimedia.org Cc: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license?
Hi all,
I want to bring a legal concern here on Google's misuse of our content. It came up today https://twitter.com/epineda/status/1564143156702199813?s=20&t=z2xu6PMB29vvkpNB79p2iQ on Twitter that the GoogleTV app had linked a movie description text in Catalan language (which in principle it should be good news regarding language normalization). However, shortly after a wikipedian colleague realised that the text was fully taken by the Catalan Wikipedia. Once I downloaded the app by myself, I double-checked that Google does not specify anywhere (or at least that I could find minimally visible) that those lines belong to Wikipedia: neither the origin, the license, nor a link to the full article or to the CC license.
I'd like to recall the licensing footpage on Wikipedia (Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_3.0_Unported_License ) and its conditions, as well as to ask others to check whether there's more situations like this one. It's worth noting how wrong this is to minoritised language Wikipedias: not only the legal issue itself, but also the lack of legitimate clicks and views that we end up losing, the confusion and misunderstandings from the readers that think this is a win by Google (the example I shared, with both screenshots enclosed), and even a subsequent chicken-and-egg situation that can lead to deleted articles by some users thinking that the content was stolen from Google and not actually the opposite.
I remember that there was a previous thread here, not so long ago, about the problems of Google taking over our data and therefore diminishing clicks to the Wikimedia projects. Considering that I am fully against the GAFAM-drift that the WMF is increasingly adopting by benefiting from Google in our human, economical and digital structures, I prefer to share it here as well -and not only to the legal team of the WMF (cced).
Kind regards,
Xavier Dengra
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Hi Xavier,
The Google team previously followed up with me to say they believe attribution should now be working in all languages on Google TV including Catalan, and they provided some images of the attribution.
If you are still seeing this issue would you mind sharing the names of the pages you're looking at so I can give specific examples to their team to look into? If you have any screenshots or photos of the pages that are missing attribution that would be helpful as well.
Thank you,
Nicholas
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 8:28 PM F. Xavier Dengra i Grau < xavier.dengra@protonmail.com> wrote:
Hi Nicholas,
Which was the outcome of the meeting with Google regarding the misuse of Wikipedia content by Google TV?
After almost three months, I’ve seen no change (citation and/or link addition to the article) on the summary of the movie. However, since quite recently they link all titles with their respective Rotten Tomatoes critics at the bottom of the page.
I think we should clearly not give up on this.
Kind regards,
Xavier Dengra
El dt, 30 ag., 2022 a 15:41, Nicholas Perry nperry@wikimedia.org va escriure:
As others mentioned in the thread, WMF can't enforce this directly as it is not the copyright holder. However, in past instances, we have raised the issue with Google (similar to the KPN example) and will do so for this one as well.
I am meeting with Google later today and will flag this to remind them of the copyright obligations that come with using this text.
Thanks for surfacing this,
Nicholas
On Tue, Aug 30, 2022 at 12:58 PM wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org wrote:
Send Wikimedia-l mailing list submissions to wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Wikimedia-l digest..."
Today's Topics:
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Peter Southwood)
- Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? (Ciell Wikipedia)
- Re: [Small Wiki Toolkit] Writing Wikidata Queries Using WDQS Tool
Workshop On Tuesday, August 30th, 16:00 UTC (Seyram Komla Sapaty)
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:18:53 +0200 From: "Peter Southwood" peter.southwood@telkomsa.net Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Re: Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license? To: "'F. Xavier Dengra i Grau'" xavier.dengra@protonmail.com, "'Wikimedia Mailing List'" wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 002201d8bc51$8963c6a0$9c2b53e0$@telkomsa.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01D8BC62.4CF06730"
If I understand the CC-by-sa licence correctly, Wikipedia and WMF themselves do not own the copyright, it is owned by the contributors who created the text. They can take this up with Google, the WMF cannot. If you are one of those contributors you can approach Google as misusing your copyright.
Cheers, Peter
From: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau via Wikimedia-l [mailto: wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org] Sent: 29 August 2022 19:00 To: Wikimedia Mailing List; legal@wikimedia.org Cc: F. Xavier Dengra i Grau Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Is GoogleTV violating Wikipedia's license?
Hi all,
I want to bring a legal concern here on Google's misuse of our content. It came up today < https://twitter.com/epineda/status/1564143156702199813?s=20&t=z2xu6PMB29... on Twitter that the GoogleTV app had linked a movie description text in Catalan language (which in principle it should be good news regarding language normalization). However, shortly after a wikipedian colleague realised that the text was fully taken by the Catalan Wikipedia. Once I downloaded the app by myself, I double-checked that Google does not specify anywhere (or at least that I could find minimally visible) that those lines belong to Wikipedia: neither the origin, the license, nor a link to the full article or to the CC license.
I'd like to recall the licensing footpage on Wikipedia (Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0 < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_Creative_Commons_Attribution... ) and its conditions, as well as to ask others to check whether there's more situations like this one. It's worth noting how wrong this is to minoritised language Wikipedias: not only the legal issue itself, but also the lack of legitimate clicks and views that we end up losing, the confusion and misunderstandings from the readers that think this is a win by Google (the example I shared, with both screenshots enclosed), and even a subsequent chicken-and-egg situation that can lead to deleted articles by some users thinking that the content was stolen from Google and not actually the opposite.
I remember that there was a previous thread here, not so long ago, about the problems of Google taking over our data and therefore diminishing clicks to the Wikimedia projects. Considering that I am fully against the GAFAM-drift that the WMF is increasingly adopting by benefiting from Google in our human, economical and digital structures, I prefer to share it here as well -and not only to the legal team of the WMF (cced).
Kind regards,
Xavier Dengra
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