How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre... suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl... is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S
On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... ? has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre... suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl... is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum postings.
The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.
The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee would be more interested in upholding the principles of good governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date by which a new schedule will be announced.
-Will
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Takatoshi,
Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, Thomas Townsend and others." http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
Can you comment on that?
Regards, Genderdesk
genderdesk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S
On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre... suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl... is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 4266
Hello,
I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread.
When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María Sefidari, Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally set to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and Dariusz and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2].
Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board for an additional three-year term[3][4].
The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia Foundation website[5].
We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we have had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have published some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our recent meeting in September[6][7].
I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains more information about the postponed community selection of trustees.
Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
[1] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
[2] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
[3] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
[4] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
[5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
[6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
[7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions
[8] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_2020_-_Call_for_feedback_about_Bylaws_changes_and_Board_candidate_rubric
*NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in advance!*
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum postings.
The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.
The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee would be more interested in upholding the principles of good governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date by which a new schedule will be announced.
-Will
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Takatoshi,
Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol
Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, Thomas Townsend and others." http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
Can you comment on that?
Regards, Genderdesk
genderdesk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S
On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees
elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529
4266
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
(sent in reply to the original e-mail but it was caught since it was on the announce-l)
Hi Nataliia,
I imagine the board went through an evaluation process - perhaps with the assistance of non-profit governance experts - to help guide the board as to the appropriate size given the board's function, research about the effectiveness of corporate boards at different sizes, etc. Can you share some of the details of that process and how the board arrived at 16 seats specifically? Do you have any data that estimates the time commitment for existing board members, between general board participation and committee roles?
Thanks for any insight, Nathan
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 11:49 AM Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hello,
I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread.
When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María Sefidari, Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally set to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and Dariusz and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2].
Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board for an additional three-year term[3][4].
The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia Foundation website[5].
We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we have had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have published some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our recent meeting in September[6][7].
I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains more information about the postponed community selection of trustees.
Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
[1]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
[2]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
[3]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
[4]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
[5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
[6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
[7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions
[8]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
*NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in advance!*
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum postings.
The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.
The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee would be more interested in upholding the principles of good governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date by which a new schedule will be announced.
-Will
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Takatoshi,
Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol
Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, Thomas Townsend and others." http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
Can you comment on that?
Regards, Genderdesk
genderdesk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S
On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi <billtakatoshi@gmail.com
wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees
elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529
4266
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itself decided to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for elections, presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]?
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
Best, Paulo
Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 16:49:
Hello,
I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread.
When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María Sefidari, Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally set to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and Dariusz and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2].
Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board for an additional three-year term[3][4].
The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia Foundation website[5].
We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we have had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have published some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our recent meeting in September[6][7].
I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains more information about the postponed community selection of trustees.
Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
[1]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
[2]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
[3]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
[4]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
[5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
[6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
[7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions
[8]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
*NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in advance!*
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum postings.
The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.
The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee would be more interested in upholding the principles of good governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date by which a new schedule will be announced.
-Will
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Takatoshi,
Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol
Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, Thomas Townsend and others." http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
Can you comment on that?
Regards, Genderdesk
genderdesk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S
On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi <billtakatoshi@gmail.com
wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees
elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529
4266
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing. The so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered by the Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken.
This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some background about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership organization which is no longer legally required to hold elections.
Regards,
Adam W. [[mw:User:Adamw]]
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itself decided to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for elections, presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]?
[1] - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
Best, Paulo
Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 16:49:
Hello,
I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread.
When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María Sefidari, Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally set to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and Dariusz and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2].
Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board for an additional three-year term[3][4].
The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia Foundation website[5].
We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we have had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have published some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our recent meeting in September[6][7].
I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains more information about the postponed community selection of trustees.
Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
[1]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
[2]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
[3]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
[4]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
[5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
[6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
[7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions
[8]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... < https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
*NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal working hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. You should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you in advance!*
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum postings.
The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.
The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee would be more interested in upholding the principles of good governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date by which a new schedule will be announced.
-Will
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Takatoshi,
Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol
Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, Thomas Townsend and others." http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
Can you comment on that?
Regards, Genderdesk
genderdesk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi <billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees
elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529
4266
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under the impression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the case. I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body in the eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part of it?
Regards, Paulo
Adam Wight adam.wight@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing. The so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered by the Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken.
This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some background about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership organization which is no longer legally required to hold elections.
Regards,
Adam W. [[mw:User:Adamw]]
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itself decided to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for elections, presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]?
[1] -
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
Best, Paulo
Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quarta,
7/10/2020
à(s) 16:49:
Hello,
I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread.
When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María
Sefidari,
Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally
set
to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and
Dariusz
and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2].
Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board
for
an additional three-year term[3][4].
The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia Foundation website[5].
We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we
have
had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have
published
some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our recent meeting in September[6][7].
I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains more information about the postponed community selection of trustees.
Best regards,
antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
[1]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
[2]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
[3]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
[4]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
[5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
[6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
[7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions
[8]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
<
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
*NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal
working
hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend.
You
should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you
in
advance!*
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com wrote:
After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum postings.
The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair.
The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee would be more interested in upholding the principles of good governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date by which a new schedule will be announced.
-Will
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com wrote:
Mr. Takatoshi,
Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol
Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, Thomas Townsend and others." http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
Can you comment on that?
Regards, Genderdesk
genderdesk.wordpress.com
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com
wrote:
Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current plan? //S On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi <
billtakatoshi@gmail.com
wrote:
How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees
elections?
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an announcement will be made."
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but is that accurate?
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each such appointment shall not exceed three years."
Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees?
Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state?
Who is the Chair currently?
-- Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529
4266
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about those first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different frame of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the time you need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is and (b) why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational principle, authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization. You would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos Perneta" <wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under the impression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the case. I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body in the eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part of it?
Regards, Paulo
Adam Wight adam.wight@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the > Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing. The > so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered by the > Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some background > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold elections. > > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy > > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itself decided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for elections, > > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... > > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quarta, > 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María > Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and > Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have > published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the > >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S... > >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe... > >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s... > >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei... > >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... > >> < > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_... > >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal > working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message > >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum > >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even > >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August > >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. > >>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee > >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair. > >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... > >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of good > >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk genderscribe@gmail.com > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com > wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees > >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... > >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, > >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an > >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre... > >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl... > >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hello Brad,
Asking what the legitimacy of such a thing is for the broad Movement seems to me a very reasonable question, especially when I'm not from the US, I'm not a native English speaker and I'm not US-stuff wise. You, however, have answered in a defensive and aggressive way, as if everybody in the globe had to born knowing US laws and bureaucracy, which seems quite unreasonable. Stay with your truths and your "Former WMF General Counsel" title, my argument here is finished.
Best, Paulo
Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 19:45:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about those first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different frame of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the time you need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is and (b) why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational principle, authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization. You would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos Perneta" < wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under theimpression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the case. I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body in the eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part of it?
Regards, Paulo Adam Wight <adam.wight@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the > Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing. The > so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered by the > Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for somebackground > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold elections. > > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy > > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itself decided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for elections, > > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... > > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quarta, > 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María > Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and > Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have > published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the > >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S... > >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe... > >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s... > >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei... > >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... > >> < > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_... > >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal > working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message > >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum > >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even > >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August > >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. > >>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee > >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair. > >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... > >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of good > >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com > wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees > >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... > >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, > >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an > >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre... > >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl... > >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Part of the blame here is mine, for casually bringing up a controversial and slightly off-thread topic. But I agree with Paulo that an unelected Board has little legitimacy, even if we would like them to have it. The most recent crisis of confidence around rebranding makes a person ask: Why are the Board and Foundation so often misaligned with the community they serve, and how can we improve their accountability?
This could be a great opportunity to help fill in any of the lost history around the membership organization conversion: as I understand it (see the article I referenced earlier), Brad Patrick was general counsel of WMF for ten months, exactly during the organization's change in legal status, and can offer a unique perspective into the moment.
I've read the public mailing list discussions and I think it's pretty clear that everyone was acting in good faith, trying to chart a safe course for how to best protect and nurture the young Foundation. The scenario seems to be, that the membership requirements as written on paper had never been fulfilled, so there was some risk in continuing under that structure. Rather than leave the Foundation vulnerable to lawsuits from sometimes volatile editors, who made up the majority of the member class, instead membership was eliminated and a more predictable set of bylaws were established which emphasized stability and would prevent a "hostile takeover". Please correct any bad assumptions here!
The drawback (beyond the loss of democratic oversight) is that the Foundation remained in legal jeopardy, but now because it had potentially broken Florida nonprofit law by converting to a non-membership organization without formally notifying its members. The reason notifications weren't sent out ahead of time is that very few people were registered with physical mailing addresses. In hindsight, it's been pointed out, WMF did have email addresses for its members but no notification went out by that channel. Ironically, this means that members as of November 29, 2006 may have standing to sue for damages or control. There seems to be no time limit for making this challenge.
I hope this gives background to my comment, and that one day Wikimedians own the trademarks to the copyleft movement they have built.
-Adam W. (Writing in my personal capacity, not representing my employer.)
On October 7, 2020 9:00:21 PM GMT+02:00, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Brad,
Asking what the legitimacy of such a thing is for the broad Movement seems to me a very reasonable question, especially when I'm not from the US, I'm not a native English speaker and I'm not US-stuff wise. You, however, have answered in a defensive and aggressive way, as if everybody in the globe had to born knowing US laws and bureaucracy, which seems quite unreasonable. Stay with your truths and your "Former WMF General Counsel" title, my argument here is finished.
Best, Paulo
Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 19:45:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about
those
first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the
time you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is
and (b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational
principle,
authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization.
You
would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of
law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos
Perneta" <
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under theimpression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing bodyin the
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
of
it?
Regards, Paulo Adam Wight <adam.wight@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out thatthe
> Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it'sself-appointing. The
> so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be consideredby the
> Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for somebackground > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold
elections.
> > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
> > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoTitself
decided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
BoT
which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
> > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv <ntymkiv@wikimedia.org> escreveu no diaquarta,
> 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection oftrustees, we
also > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
(María
> Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms wereoriginally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension
they are
still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board
Chair and
> Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed tothe
Board > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on
the
Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the
Board, and
we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
have
> published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were justapproved
at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
the
> >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. Thatannouncement
contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
> >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
> >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
> >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
> >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> >> < > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
> >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of yournormal
> working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer duringweekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
> >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, askingabout
claims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
forum
> >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofitstatus is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that
claim even
> >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired inAugust
> >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting onSeptember
consist of
a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of
any
Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining
Trustees
all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
> >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve asChair.
> >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, onlyonline, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
worst
of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate.
Doesn't
the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is
at
risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of
good
> >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule oreven
a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the
names
"Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers,
Felicity
Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein
> wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What isthe
current > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
> >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get movingagain,
> >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decidedand an
> >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
> >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania2020"
-- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
> >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "theterm
of each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
+1
617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact, many of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it over the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say how the community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws as to how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over the results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about those first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different frame of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the time you need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is and (b) why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational principle, authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization. You would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos Perneta" < wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under theimpression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the case. I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body in the eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part of it?
Regards, Paulo Adam Wight <adam.wight@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the > Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing. The > so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered by the > Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for somebackground > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold elections. > > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy > > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itself decided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for elections, > > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... > > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quarta, > 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, we also > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María > Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension they are still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair and > Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to the Board > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board, and we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have > published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the > >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S... > >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe... > >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s... > >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei... > >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob... > >> < > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_... > >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your normal > working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the message > >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking about claims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum > >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim even > >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August > >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on September 24. > >>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall consist of a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the Board may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a Trustee > >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair. > >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... > >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation more time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of good > >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com > wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is the current > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of Trustees > >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos... > >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving again, > >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an > >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre... > >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania 2020" -- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> > https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl... > >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the term of each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe > _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a membership organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide their full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose it is possible; but anything requiring a financial contribution would limit the membership to those who have the money to pay to join, which is antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact, many of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it over the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say how the community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws as to how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over the results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about those first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the time
you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is and
(b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational principle, authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization. You would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos Perneta" < wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under theimpression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body inthe
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part of it?
Regards, Paulo Adam Wight <adam.wight@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the > Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing.The
> so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered bythe
> Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for somebackground > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold elections. > > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
> > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT itselfdecided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a BoT which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
> > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv <ntymkiv@wikimedia.org> escreveu no dia quarta, > 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees, wealso > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats (María > Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension they
are
still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair
and
> Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to theBoard > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board,
and
we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We have > published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just approved at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to the > >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That announcement contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
> >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
> >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
> >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
> >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> >> < > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
> >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of yournormal
> working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer duringweekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
> >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking aboutclaims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked forum > >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim
even
> >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August > >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting onSeptember
of
a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining Trustees all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
> >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair. > >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, onlyonline, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the worst of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate. Doesn't the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of good > >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or even a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the names "Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
meta.sj@gmail.com>
> wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is thecurrent > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
> >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get movingagain,
> >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided and an > >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
> >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania2020"
-- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
> >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the termof each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj +1 617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Well, you could always do a nominal membership contribution, like a penny, or sponsorships for those who wish to join but don't have the money. Since WMF makes its money primarily from donations, there's really no need for it to actually sustain itself from membership fees.
So far as requiring non-pseudonymous membership, I don't think there's any requirement that such member lists be made public. So it would work a lot like functionaries giving their information for the private access policy; they are required to verify their identity, but that will be held privately and not available to the public. So for all intents and purposes, pseudonymous membership would still be possible.
Todd
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a membership organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide their full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose it is possible; but anything requiring a financial contribution would limit the membership to those who have the money to pay to join, which is antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact, many of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it over the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say how
the
community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws as
to
how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over the results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com
wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about those first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the time
you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is and
(b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational principle, authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization. You would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos Perneta"
<
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under theimpression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body inthe
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
of
it?
Regards, Paulo Adam Wight <adam.wight@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that the > Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's self-appointing.The
> so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered bythe
> Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for somebackground > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold
elections.
> > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
> > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoTitself
decided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
BoT
which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
> > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv <ntymkiv@wikimedia.org> escreveu no diaquarta,
> 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection of trustees,we
also > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
(María
> Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms wereoriginally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension they
are
still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board Chair
and
> Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed tothe
Board > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on the Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the Board,
and
we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
have
> published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were justapproved
at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
the
> >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. Thatannouncement
contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
> >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
> >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
> >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
> >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> >> < > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
> >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of yournormal
> working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer duringweekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
> >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking aboutclaims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
forum
> >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofitstatus is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that claim
even
> >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in August > >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting onSeptember
of
a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of any Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining
Trustees
all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
> >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as Chair. > >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, onlyonline, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
worst
of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate.
Doesn't
the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is at risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of good > >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or
even
a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the
names
"Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers, Felicity Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
meta.sj@gmail.com>
> wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What isthe
current > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
> >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get movingagain,
> >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided andan
> >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
> >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania2020"
-- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
> >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "theterm
of each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
+1
617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Functionaries (checkusers, oversighters, stewards, OTRS members, and people with similar advanced permissions) have not been required to provide their personal information - name, DOB, address - for years. They simply sign off a type of confidentiality agreement with their username.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:52, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, you could always do a nominal membership contribution, like a penny, or sponsorships for those who wish to join but don't have the money. Since WMF makes its money primarily from donations, there's really no need for it to actually sustain itself from membership fees.
So far as requiring non-pseudonymous membership, I don't think there's any requirement that such member lists be made public. So it would work a lot like functionaries giving their information for the private access policy; they are required to verify their identity, but that will be held privately and not available to the public. So for all intents and purposes, pseudonymous membership would still be possible.
Todd
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a
membership
organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide
their
full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose it is possible; but anything requiring a financial contribution would limit the membership to those who have the money to pay to join, which is antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact,
many
of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it
over
the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say how
the
community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws
as
to
how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over the results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com
wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about
those
first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the
time
you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is
and
(b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational
principle,
authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization.
You
would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of
law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos
Perneta"
<
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under theimpression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing bodyin
the
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
of
it?
Regards, Paulo Adam Wight <adam.wight@wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out thatthe
> Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it'sself-appointing.
The
> so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be consideredby
the
> Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for somebackground > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold
elections.
> > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
> > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoTitself
decided > > to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
BoT
which is > > expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
> > presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > > > [1] - > > >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> > > > Best, > > Paulo > > > > Nataliia Tymkiv <ntymkiv@wikimedia.org> escreveu no diaquarta,
> 7/10/2020 > > à(s) 16:49: > > > >> Hello, > >> > >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. > >> > >> When the Board postponed the community selection oftrustees,
we
also > >> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
(María
> Sefidari, > >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms wereoriginally > set > >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension
they
are
still > >> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board
Chair
and
> Dariusz > >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. > >> > >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed tothe
Board > for > >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. > >> > >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on
the
Wikimedia > >> Foundation website[5]. > >> > >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the
Board,
and
we > have > >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
have
> published > >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were justapproved
at our > >> recent meeting in September[6][7]. > >> > >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to > >> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
the
> >> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. Thatannouncement
contains > >> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv > >> > >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees > >> > >> [1] > >> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
> >> > >> > >> [2] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
> >> > >> > >> [3] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
> >> > >> > >> [4] > >> > >> >https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
> >> > >> > >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ > >> > >> > >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings > >> > >> > >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions > >> > >> [8] > >> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> >> < > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
> >> > >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of yournormal
> working > >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer duringweekend. > You > >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in > >> advance!* > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
> >>> below by some role account I've never heard of, askingabout
claims > >>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my > >>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
forum
> >>> postings. > >>> > >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofitstatus is > >>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that
claim
even
> >>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired inAugust
> >>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting onSeptember
consist
of
a > >>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may > >>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of
any
Trustee > >>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining
Trustees
all > >>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's > >>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
> >>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve asChair.
> >>> > >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on > >>> > >>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, onlyonline, > >>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic > >>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for > >>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
worst
of the > >>> bad actors in today's international political climate.
Doesn't
the > >>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time > >>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is
at
risk or > >>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee > >>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of
good
> >>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule oreven
a date > >>> by which a new schedule will be announced. > >>> > >>> -Will > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, > >>>> > >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the
names
"Rogol > >>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers,
Felicity
Braingut, > >>> Thomas Townsend and others." > >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 > >>>> Can you comment on that? > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> Genderdesk > >>>> > >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com > >>> > >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
meta.sj@gmail.com>
> wrote: > >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What isthe
current > >>>> plan? //S > >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
> >>> elections? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
> >>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get movingagain,
> >>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decidedand
an
> >>>>> announcement will be made." > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
> >>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania2020"
-- but > >>>>> is that accurate? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
> >>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "theterm
of each > >>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." > >>>>> > >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? > >>>>> > >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? > >>>>> > >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? > >>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
+1
617 529 > >>> 4266 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > >> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > >> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
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mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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That the WMF *isn’t* a membership organisation already is rather weird. It may be specific to US organisations (in which case, references please), but it really isn’t normal on an international basis, nor within the Wikimedia movement (most/all affiliates have members).
Having to provide legal names and addresses may be a problem for some, but definitely not all Wikimedians. Similar with membership fees, particularly if it is set to a nominal value, and if there are ways of waving the fees if needed.
Governance issues definitely change - e.g., if you worry about an organisational take-over, then it’s no longer the board you have to worry about but the membership - but you have larger numbers of membership. However, it wouldn’t prevent things like movement-wide elections, they would just have to be ratified by a membership rather than the board.
It’s something that is worth thinking more about.
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Oct 2020, at 18:55, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Functionaries (checkusers, oversighters, stewards, OTRS members, and people with similar advanced permissions) have not been required to provide their personal information - name, DOB, address - for years. They simply sign off a type of confidentiality agreement with their username.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:52, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, you could always do a nominal membership contribution, like a penny, or sponsorships for those who wish to join but don't have the money. Since WMF makes its money primarily from donations, there's really no need for it to actually sustain itself from membership fees.
So far as requiring non-pseudonymous membership, I don't think there's any requirement that such member lists be made public. So it would work a lot like functionaries giving their information for the private access policy; they are required to verify their identity, but that will be held privately and not available to the public. So for all intents and purposes, pseudonymous membership would still be possible.
Todd
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a
membership
organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide
their
full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose it is possible; but anything requiring a financial contribution would limit the membership to those who have the money to pay to join, which is antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact,
many
of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it
over
the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say how
the
community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws
as
to
how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over the results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com
wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about
those
first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the
time
you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is
and
(b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational
principle,
authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization.
You
would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of
law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos
Perneta"
<
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under the impression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body
in
the
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
of
it?
Regards, Paulo
Adam Wight adam.wight@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that
the
Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's
self-appointing.
The
so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered
by
the
Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken.
This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some
background
about the conversion from a membership organization to a
non-membership
organization which is no longer legally required to hold
elections.
Regards,
Adam W. [[mw:User:Adamw]]
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: > The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT
itself
decided
> to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
BoT
which is
> expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
> presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? > > [1] - >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
> > Best, > Paulo > > Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia
quarta,
7/10/2020 > à(s) 16:49: > >> Hello, >> >> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. >> >> When the Board postponed the community selection of
trustees,
we
also
>> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
(María
Sefidari, >> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were
originally
set >> to expire last month, but because of that term extension
they
are
still
>> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board
Chair
and
Dariusz >> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. >> >> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to
the
Board
for >> an additional three-year term[3][4]. >> >> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on
the
Wikimedia
>> Foundation website[5]. >> >> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the
Board,
and
we
have >> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
have
published >> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just
approved
at our
>> recent meeting in September[6][7]. >> >> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an
update to
>> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
the
>> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That
announcement
contains
>> more information about the postponed community selection of
trustees.
>> >> Best regards, >> >> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv >> >> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees >> >> [1] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
>> >> >> [2] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
>> >> >> [3] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
>> >> >> [4] >> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
>> >> >> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ >> >> >> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings >> >> >> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions >> >> [8] >> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
>> < >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
>> >> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your
normal
working >> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during
weekend.
You >> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off.
Thank you
in >> advance!* >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi <
billtakatoshi@gmail.com>
>> wrote: >> >>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
>>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking
about
claims
>>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit
under my
>>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
forum
>>> postings. >>> >>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit
status is
>>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that
claim
even
>>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in
August
>>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on
September
>>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall
consist
of
a
>>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may
>>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of
any
Trustee
>>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining
Trustees
all
>>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my
layperson's
>>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
>>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as
Chair.
>>> >>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on >>> >>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
>>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only
online,
>>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the
pandemic
>>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying
elections for
>>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
worst
of the
>>> bad actors in today's international political climate.
Doesn't
the
>>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time
>>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is
at
risk or
>>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections
Committee
>>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of
good
>>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or
even
a date
>>> by which a new schedule will be announced. >>> >>> -Will >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk <
genderscribe@gmail.com>
>>> wrote: >>>> Mr. Takatoshi, >>>> >>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the
names
"Rogol
>>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers,
Felicity
Braingut,
>>> Thomas Townsend and others." >>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 >>>> Can you comment on that? >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Genderdesk >>>> >>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
meta.sj@gmail.com>
wrote: >>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is
the
current
>>>> plan? //S >>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
>>> elections? >>>>> >>>>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
>>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving
again,
>>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided
and
an
>>>>> announcement will be made." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
>>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania
2020"
-- but
>>>>> is that accurate? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
>>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the
term
of each
>>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." >>>>> >>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? >>>>> >>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? >>>>> >>>>> Who is the Chair currently? >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
+1
617 529
>>> 4266 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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I would like to suggest to move away from the 'membership organization' question, and possibly bring that to a dedicated thread. It's a huge topic.
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 1:37 PM Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
That the WMF *isn’t* a membership organisation already is rather weird. It may be specific to US organisations (in which case, references please), but it really isn’t normal on an international basis, nor within the Wikimedia movement (most/all affiliates have members).
Having to provide legal names and addresses may be a problem for some, but definitely not all Wikimedians. Similar with membership fees, particularly if it is set to a nominal value, and if there are ways of waving the fees if needed.
Governance issues definitely change - e.g., if you worry about an organisational take-over, then it’s no longer the board you have to worry about but the membership - but you have larger numbers of membership. However, it wouldn’t prevent things like movement-wide elections, they would just have to be ratified by a membership rather than the board.
It’s something that is worth thinking more about.
Thanks, Mike
On 8 Oct 2020, at 18:55, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Functionaries (checkusers, oversighters, stewards, OTRS members, and
people
with similar advanced permissions) have not been required to provide
their
personal information - name, DOB, address - for years. They simply sign off a type of confidentiality agreement with their username.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:52, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Well, you could always do a nominal membership contribution, like a
penny,
or sponsorships for those who wish to join but don't have the money.
Since
WMF makes its money primarily from donations, there's really no need
for it
to actually sustain itself from membership fees.
So far as requiring non-pseudonymous membership, I don't think there's
any
requirement that such member lists be made public. So it would work a
lot
like functionaries giving their information for the private access
policy;
they are required to verify their identity, but that will be held
privately
and not available to the public. So for all intents and purposes, pseudonymous membership would still be possible.
Todd
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a
membership
organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide
their
full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose
it
is possible; but anything requiring a financial contribution would
limit
the membership to those who have the money to pay to join, which is antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com wrote:
Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In fact,
many
of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it
over
the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say
how
the
community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws
as
to
how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated, elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over
the
results of the election.
Todd
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick bradp.wmf@gmail.com
wrote:
This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about
those
first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
frame
of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the
time
you
need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is
and
(b)
why it isn't what you want it to be.
WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational
principle,
authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization.
You
would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of
law).
Please temper your criticism accordingly.
Brad Patrick Former WMF General Counsel
On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos
Perneta"
<
wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under the impression that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy towards the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
case.
I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body
in
the
eyes of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
of
it?
Regards, Paulo
Adam Wight adam.wight@wikimedia.de escreveu no dia quarta, 7/10/2020 à(s) 17:20:
> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that
the
> Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's
self-appointing.
The
> so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be considered
by
the
> Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken. > > This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some background > about the conversion from a membership organization to a non-membership > organization which is no longer legally required to hold
elections.
> > Regards, > > Adam W. > [[mw:User:Adamw]] > > [1] >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
> > On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote: >> The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT
itself
decided >> to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
BoT
which is >> expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
elections,
>> presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]? >> >> [1] - >> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
>> >> Best, >> Paulo >> >> Nataliia Tymkiv ntymkiv@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia
quarta,
> 7/10/2020 >> à(s) 16:49: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread. >>> >>> When the Board postponed the community selection of
trustees,
we
also >>> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
(María
> Sefidari, >>> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were originally > set >>> to expire last month, but because of that term extension
they
are
still >>> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board
Chair
and
> Dariusz >>> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2]. >>> >>> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed to
the
Board > for >>> an additional three-year term[3][4]. >>> >>> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on
the
Wikimedia >>> Foundation website[5]. >>> >>> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the
Board,
and
we > have >>> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
have
> published >>> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just
approved
at our >>> recent meeting in September[6][7]. >>> >>> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an update to >>> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
the
>>> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That
announcement
contains >>> more information about the postponed community selection of trustees. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv >>> >>> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees >>> >>> [1] >>> >>> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_S...
>>> >>> >>> [2] >>> >>> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committe...
>>> >>> >>> [3] >>> >>> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27s...
>>> >>> >>> [4] >>> >>> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafei...
>>> >>> >>> [5] https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/ >>> >>> >>> [6] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings >>> >>> >>> [7] https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions >>> >>> [8] >>> >>> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octob...
>>> < >>> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_...
>>> >>> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your
normal
> working >>> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during weekend. > You >>> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off. Thank you > in >>> advance!* >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi < billtakatoshi@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent the
message
>>>> below by some role account I've never heard of, asking
about
claims >>>> that have used the names of five other people. I don't edit under my >>>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
forum
>>>> postings. >>>> >>>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's nonprofit status is >>>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that
claim
even
>>>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in
August
>>>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on
September
>>>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum shall
consist
of
a >>>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6 says, "the
Board
may >>>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of
any
Trustee >>>> position." Therefore, since four of the five remaining
Trustees
all >>>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in my layperson's >>>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing a
Trustee
>>>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as
Chair.
>>>> >>>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on >>>> >>>> >>> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
>>>> is baffling. Elections have never been held in person, only online, >>>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of the pandemic >>>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying elections for >>>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
worst
of the >>>> bad actors in today's international political climate.
Doesn't
the >>>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the Foundation
more
time >>>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status is
at
risk or >>>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and Elections Committee >>>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of
good
>>>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule or
even
a date >>>> by which a new schedule will be announced. >>>> >>>> -Will >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk < genderscribe@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> Mr. Takatoshi, >>>>> >>>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used the
names
"Rogol >>>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers,
Felicity
Braingut, >>>> Thomas Townsend and others." >>>> http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567 >>>>> Can you comment on that? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Genderdesk >>>>> >>>>> genderdesk.wordpress.com >>>> >>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
meta.sj@gmail.com>
> wrote: >>>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment? What is
the
current >>>>> plan? //S >>>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi < > billtakatoshi@gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone Board of
Trustees
>>>> elections? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Pos...
>>>>>> has a comment from April saying, "Once things get moving
again,
>>>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be decided
and
an
>>>>>> announcement will be made." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curre...
>>>>>> suggests that five board members terms end on "Wikimania
2020"
-- but >>>>>> is that accurate? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_Byl...
>>>>>> is clear that "All Board terms are three years" and "the
term
of each >>>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three years." >>>>>> >>>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of Trustees? >>>>>> >>>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present state? >>>>>> >>>>>> Who is the Chair currently? >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
+1
617 529 >>>> 4266 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org ?subject=unsubscribe >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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