I would like to suggest to move away from the 'membership organization'
question, and possibly bring that to a dedicated thread. It's a huge topic.
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 1:37 PM Michael Peel <email(a)mikepeel.net> wrote:
That the WMF *isn’t* a membership organisation already
is rather weird. It
may be specific to US organisations (in which case, references please), but
it really isn’t normal on an international basis, nor within the Wikimedia
movement (most/all affiliates have members).
Having to provide legal names and addresses may be a problem for some, but
definitely not all Wikimedians. Similar with membership fees, particularly
if it is set to a nominal value, and if there are ways of waving the fees
if needed.
Governance issues definitely change - e.g., if you worry about an
organisational take-over, then it’s no longer the board you have to worry
about but the membership - but you have larger numbers of membership.
However, it wouldn’t prevent things like movement-wide elections, they
would just have to be ratified by a membership rather than the board.
It’s something that is worth thinking more about.
Thanks,
Mike
On 8 Oct 2020, at 18:55, Risker
<risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Functionaries (checkusers, oversighters, stewards, OTRS members, and
people
with similar advanced permissions) have not been
required to provide
their
personal information - name, DOB, address - for
years. They simply sign
off a type of confidentiality agreement with their username.
Risker/Anne
On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:52, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, you could always do a nominal membership contribution, like a
penny,
> or sponsorships for those who wish to join
but don't have the money.
Since
> WMF makes its money primarily from donations,
there's really no need
for it
> to actually sustain itself from membership
fees.
>
> So far as requiring non-pseudonymous membership, I don't think there's
any
> requirement that such member lists be made
public. So it would work a
lot
> like functionaries giving their information
for the private access
policy;
> they are required to verify their identity,
but that will be held
privately
> and not available to the public. So for all
intents and purposes,
> pseudonymous membership would still be possible.
>
> Todd
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM Risker <risker.wp(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Without needing to go into further detail, it is because to be a
> membership
>> organization, pseudonyms aren't acceptable; all members must provide
> their
>> full legal names and addresses. I also cannot think of a membership
>> organization that does not charge a membership fee, although I suppose
it
>> is possible; but anything requiring a
financial contribution would
limit
>> the membership to those who have the
money to pay to join, which is
>> antithetical to the movement's philosophy.
>>
>> Risker/Anne
>>
>> On Thu, 8 Oct 2020 at 13:41, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Why would we "not want it to be a membership organization"? In
fact,
> many
>>> of us want exactly that, since the WMF seems to think it can lord it
> over
>>> the communities instead of fulfilling its role of serving them.
>>>
>>> The new Board rules basically say that the Board itself gets to say
how
>> the
>>> community-based members are selected, instead of having actual bylaws
> as
>> to
>>> how it happens. I'd like to see it done very simply: Those eight seats
>>> (forming a majority) on the Board should be elected (not nominated,
>>> elected) by the community, with the Board having no veto power over
the
>>> results of the election.
>>>
>>> Todd
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Brad Patrick <bradp.wmf(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a very, very old and tired argument. If you do not understand
>>>> United States non-profit corporations, go educate yourself about
> those
>>>> first. If your perspective is non-US based, you may have a different
>>> frame
>>>> of mind which is irreconcilable with the way WMF is. Take all the
> time
>>> you
>>>> need to see the differences before attacking WMF for (a) what it is
> and
>>> (b)
>>>> why it isn't what you want it to be.
>>>>
>>>> WMF exists legally, and has as its foundation organizational
> principle,
>>>> authority vested in a Board. WMF is not a membership organization.
> You
>>>> would not want it to be a membership organization (as a matter of
> law).
>>>>
>>>> Please temper your criticism accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> Brad Patrick
>>>> Former WMF General Counsel
>>>>
>>>> On 10/7/20, 12:47 PM, "Wikimedia-l on behalf of Paulo Santos
> Perneta"
>> <
>>>> wikimedia-l-bounces(a)lists.wikimedia.org on behalf of
>>>> paulosperneta(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I knew they are theoretically self-appointed, but was under the
>>>> impression
>>>> that at least until now an appearance of democracy and legitimacy
>>>> towards
>>>> the community has been respected, which no longer seems to be the
>>> case.
>>>> I wonder what would be the legitimacy of a self-appointing body
> in
>>> the
>>>> eyes
>>>> of the Wikimedia Movement, and all the communities which are part
>> of
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Paulo
>>>>
>>>> Adam Wight <adam.wight(a)wikimedia.de> escreveu no dia quarta,
>>>> 7/10/2020 à(s)
>>>> 17:20:
>>>>
>>>>> Greetings, this is a semiautomated response pointing out that
> the
>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation Board is not elected, it's
> self-appointing.
>>> The
>>>>> so-called "elections" are in fact nominations to be
considered
> by
>>> the
>>>>> Board. Therefore, the Bylaws have not been broken.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is an unfortunate arrangement, please see [1] for some
>>>> background
>>>>> about the conversion from a membership organization to a
>>>> non-membership
>>>>> organization which is no longer legally required to hold
>> elections.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam W.
>>>>> [[mw:User:Adamw]]
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/7/20 5:55 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta wrote:
>>>>>> The terms of 3 BoT members expired last month, and the BoT
>> itself
>>>> decided
>>>>>> to extend them? What is the legitimacy of that? And why is a
>> BoT
>>>> which is
>>>>>> expected to be in a mere interim management waiting for
>>> elections,
>>>>>> presenting profound changes to its Bylaws [1]?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] -
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octo…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Paulo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nataliia Tymkiv <ntymkiv(a)wikimedia.org> escreveu no dia
>> quarta,
>>>>> 7/10/2020
>>>>>> à(s) 16:49:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can answer a few of the questions raised in this thread.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the Board postponed the community selection of
> trustees,
>> we
>>>> also
>>>>>>> extended the terms of the trustees in the affected seats
>> (María
>>>>> Sefidari,
>>>>>>> Dariusz Jemielniak, and James Heilman)[1]. Their terms were
>>>> originally
>>>>> set
>>>>>>> to expire last month, but because of that term extension
> they
>>> are
>>>> still
>>>>>>> serving as trustees, and as such María remains the Board
> Chair
>>> and
>>>>> Dariusz
>>>>>>> and James continue on as Committee Chairs[2].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Raju Narisetti and Esra'a Al Shafei have been reappointed
to
>> the
>>>> Board
>>>>> for
>>>>>>> an additional three-year term[3][4].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The current members of the Board of Trustees are listed on
> the
>>>> Wikimedia
>>>>>>> Foundation website[5].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We do not currently have a shortage of trustees on the
> Board,
>>> and
>>>> we
>>>>> have
>>>>>>> had a quorum for every decision we have made this year. We
>> have
>>>>> published
>>>>>>> some outstanding Board records, many of which were just
>> approved
>>>> at our
>>>>>>> recent meeting in September[6][7].
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have just sent an email to this list, as well as posted an
>>>> update to
>>>>>>> Meta-Wiki, with a request for feedback on matters related to
>> the
>>>>>>> Foundation’s Bylaws and trustee selection[8]. That
>> announcement
>>>> contains
>>>>>>> more information about the postponed community selection of
>>>> trustees.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> antanana / Nataliia Tymkiv
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vice Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Postponement_of_Community_…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Board_Officers_and_Committ…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [3]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Raju_Narisetti%27…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [4]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Renewing_Esra%27a_Al_Shafe…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [5]
https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [6]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [7]
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolutions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [8]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/Octo…
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *NOTICE: You may have received this message outside of your
>>> normal
>>>>> working
>>>>>>> hours/days, as I usually can work more as a volunteer during
>>>> weekend.
>>>>> You
>>>>>>> should not feel obligated to answer it during your days off.
>>>> Thank you
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> advance!*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 9:52 PM Bill Takatoshi <
>>>> billtakatoshi(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After I asked my questions on September 4, I was sent
the
>>> message
>>>>>>>> below by some role account I've never heard of,
asking
> about
>>>> claims
>>>>>>>> that have used the names of five other people. I
don't edit
>>>> under my
>>>>>>>> real name, but I have never used the names in the linked
>> forum
>>>>>>>> postings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The linked posts also claim that the Foundation's
nonprofit
>>>> status is
>>>>>>>> at risk. I am not a lawyer, but I am skeptical of that
> claim
>>> even
>>>>>>>> though five Trustees whose three-year terms expired in
> August
>>>>>>>> apparently voted on a Resolution in a Board meeting on
>>> September
>>>> 24.
>>>>>>>> According to Section 4 of the Bylaws, "A quorum
shall
> consist
>>> of
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> majority of Trustees then in office." Section 6
says, "the
>>> Board
>>>> may
>>>>>>>> continue doing business as a Board during the vacancy of
> any
>>>> Trustee
>>>>>>>> position." Therefore, since four of the five
remaining
>> Trustees
>>>> all
>>>>>>>> voted in favor, the Resolution was properly carried, in
my
>>>> layperson's
>>>>>>>> view. I am less certain about the propriety of allowing
a
>>> Trustee
>>>>>>>> whose three year term expired to continue to serve as
> Chair.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The lack of any update or even ETA for an update on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Po…
>>>>>>>> is baffling.
Elections have never been held in person, only
>>>> online,
>>>>>>>> and so the excuse that they were postponed because of
the
>>>> pandemic
>>>>>>>> crisis seems extremely suspicious. Indefinitely delaying
>>>> elections for
>>>>>>>> such a vacuous reason makes the Foundation look like the
>> worst
>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> bad actors in today's international political
climate.
>> Doesn't
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> cancelled travel of the pandemic crisis give the
Foundation
>>> more
>>>> time
>>>>>>>> to hold elections, not less? Whether non-profit status
is
> at
>>>> risk or
>>>>>>>> not, I would hope that the Foundation, Board, and
Elections
>>>> Committee
>>>>>>>> would be more interested in upholding the principles of
> good
>>>>>>>> governance than failing to even announce a new schedule
or
>> even
>>>> a date
>>>>>>>> by which a new schedule will be announced.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Will
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 10:31 PM Gender Desk <
>>>> genderscribe(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Mr. Takatoshi,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wikipediocracy has suggested that you have also used
the
>> names
>>>> "Rogol
>>>>>>>> Domedonfors, Renée Bagslint, Jennifer Pryor-Summers,
> Felicity
>>>> Braingut,
>>>>>>>> Thomas Townsend and others."
>>>>>>>>
http://wikipediocracy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=11567
>>>>>>>>> Can you comment on that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> Genderdesk
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
genderdesk.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 7:38 PM Samuel Klein <
>>> meta.sj(a)gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Can anyone from the elections committee comment?
What is
>> the
>>>> current
>>>>>>>>> plan? //S
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 4, 2020 at 8:05 PM Bill Takatoshi <
>>>>> billtakatoshi(a)gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How long can the Foundation legally postpone
Board of
>>> Trustees
>>>>>>>> elections?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2020#Po…
>>>>>>>>>> has a
comment from April saying, "Once things get moving
>>> again,
>>>>>>>>>> appopriate [sic] date for the election will be
decided
> and
>> an
>>>>>>>>>> announcement will be made."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees#Curr…
>>>>>>>>>> suggests
that five board members terms end on "Wikimania
>>> 2020"
>>>> -- but
>>>>>>>>>> is that accurate?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Resolution:Term_Limit_Proposal_for_By…
>>>>>>>>>> is clear
that "All Board terms are three years" and "the
>> term
>>>> of each
>>>>>>>>>> such appointment shall not exceed three
years."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who are the current members of the Board of
Trustees?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can the board achieve a quorum in its present
state?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who is the Chair currently?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Samuel Klein @metasj w:user:sj
>> +1
>>>> 617 529
>>>>>>>> 4266
>>>>>>>>
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