Hoi, Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.. The search is limited to existing labels in Wikidata and to the search has as its result whatever is available in commons..
Use for instance "appelmoes" and you get six results [1], [2].
At this time you can get a "detail" screen and it provides standard functions available. The functionality can be prettified. Essential is that everything will be internationalised / localised. The other thing is that I hope is that functionality like this becomes standard Commons functionality...
On a more philosophical note, we are a WIKI, it follows that we will work to make more and more pictures searchable in this way and that we get more and more labels in all of our languages. It is however NOT necessary that from the start it needs to be perfect. Please do not let perfection be the enemy of the good. Improvements is what we should aim for and perfection is what we aspire to. Thanks, GerardM
Oh and again Hay, thank you so much.
[1] https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q618345 [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes.png
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far less relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far less relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course, it does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 4:20 PM Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all
I noticed that Hay just added a locale switcher, which as of this writing allows you to switch into Dutch. As the list of locales expands, you should get better results in each of those languages.
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/
When the language is set to English, it will match against labels/aliases in other languages, but will privilege matches against English labels/aliases, and show the English description. It's basically the equivalent of typing into the Wikidata search box, with the Wikidata language set to English. Because there is no English match for the Swahili word, that one works well even when the language is set to English -- it'll rank the Swahili match as the first result. But if you type "clé" into the Wikidata search box in English, the first result is "Cleveland".
Warmly,
Erik
Hoi, Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation is key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and obvious search function for mediafiles that have a link to a Wikidata item. Just to stress the point, this is a wiki, we do not need a fully functional search engine (for all the Commons files); that is what we aspire to that is what we work towards.. That will take years. But with a proper search tool, a tool that makes it EASY to use Commons, it may fool me into using Commons for my blog.
To show you that it works, I just looked for "baisikeli https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/baisikeli#Swahili" and made a screenshot [1]. The screenshot is with other files showing the evolution of this tool in a Commons category [2]
Important to notice is that the tool DOES invite you to localise the labels to French, Swahili et al for best results!!
A minor observation, there are all kinds of things that could change in the user interface. Key is that this is a prototype. It is showing us how we can make Commons work for us. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes3.png [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far less relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course, it does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Hoi, Two more localisations became available, one for German and one for Swedish. I have asked Alolita if she would help us with a localisation in an Indian language. Anthere, would you be so kind and reach out so that we have a localisation in an African language as well.. (French would also be good to have :) )
In the mean time I have linked pictures of the kakapoa to its Wikidata item, you can search for it in Maori.
For me the point of this proof of concept is that we already can expose material in any of our languages. We can make this available and promote the addition of "depicts" statements in Commons and labels in Wikidata. In a true Wiki way it brings additional functionality to any and all of our users.. It will improve over time.
When we are to know the extend of its usefulness, we need continuous statistics (we have them for Reasonator as well, just as an example). Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 07:33, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation is key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and obvious search function for mediafiles that have a link to a Wikidata item. Just to stress the point, this is a wiki, we do not need a fully functional search engine (for all the Commons files); that is what we aspire to that is what we work towards.. That will take years. But with a proper search tool, a tool that makes it EASY to use Commons, it may fool me into using Commons for my blog.
To show you that it works, I just looked for "baisikeli https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/baisikeli#Swahili" and made a screenshot [1]. The screenshot is with other files showing the evolution of this tool in a Commons category [2]
Important to notice is that the tool DOES invite you to localise the labels to French, Swahili et al for best results!!
A minor observation, there are all kinds of things that could change in the user interface. Key is that this is a prototype. It is showing us how we can make Commons work for us. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes3.png [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far less relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course, it does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Hi all,
It’s worth remembering that this functionality is built in to Commons, it’s just not as user-friendly. From the example below, if you put "haswbstatement:P180=Q191931” into the Commons searchbox, you will get the same results. Thanks to the structured data on commons project+team!
Also, around half of the Commons categories now have multilingual labels embedded in them through the Wikidata Infobox, which means that if you do an ordinary search for a phrase in a different language, you should find the correct commons category if it exists. E.g., try searching for “Telescopio Lovell”, or "洛弗尔望远镜". The infobox also has a link at the bottom of it that you can click on to search depicts statements for that category’s topic without having to look up the QID first.
Thanks, Mike
On 24 May 2020, at 10:30, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, Two more localisations became available, one for German and one for Swedish. I have asked Alolita if she would help us with a localisation in an Indian language. Anthere, would you be so kind and reach out so that we have a localisation in an African language as well.. (French would also be good to have :) )
In the mean time I have linked pictures of the kakapoa to its Wikidata item, you can search for it in Maori.
For me the point of this proof of concept is that we already can expose material in any of our languages. We can make this available and promote the addition of "depicts" statements in Commons and labels in Wikidata. In a true Wiki way it brings additional functionality to any and all of our users.. It will improve over time.
When we are to know the extend of its usefulness, we need continuous statistics (we have them for Reasonator as well, just as an example). Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 07:33, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation is key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and obvious search function for mediafiles that have a link to a Wikidata item. Just to stress the point, this is a wiki, we do not need a fully functional search engine (for all the Commons files); that is what we aspire to that is what we work towards.. That will take years. But with a proper search tool, a tool that makes it EASY to use Commons, it may fool me into using Commons for my blog.
To show you that it works, I just looked for "baisikeli https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/baisikeli#Swahili" and made a screenshot [1]. The screenshot is with other files showing the evolution of this tool in a Commons category [2]
Important to notice is that the tool DOES invite you to localise the labels to French, Swahili et al for best results!!
A minor observation, there are all kinds of things that could change in the user interface. Key is that this is a prototype. It is showing us how we can make Commons work for us. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes3.png [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far less relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course, it does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hoi, Mike you are absolutely right but you are missing the point that I am trying to make. Yes, what is exposed by Hay's SDSEARCH tool is based on all the work that was done before and as such it relies absolutely on the work that has been done before. Without it, this tool would not be possible. This work is key for us to move forward.
What is so vitally important about this proof of concept is that it readily opens up Commons depending on a localised user interface. Even when that is not available search, it is possible based to search based on the availability of labels in a language. This proof of concept dramatically shows that nothing more is needed to open up Commons to a multilingual public.
This proof of concept is an invitation to adopt this approach and make it available in properly internationalised code as part of a multilingual Commons user interface. It invites people to participate and with some social engineering it the shore that turns the ship in making Commons a much more positive place. Why, because making Commons usable even useful is what we have not done for all the languages but English. When people are happy to use Commons, they are more likely to participate and join its community.
So far we could not care less as long as it was used in our own projects. The challenge that I present to you is to make Commons *my goto place* for illustrations for my blog. When you can convince me, you convince the world.
Remember our approach is that of a wiki. It does not have to be perfect, it has to empower us to move forward. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 15:12, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
Hi all,
It’s worth remembering that this functionality is built in to Commons, it’s just not as user-friendly. From the example below, if you put "haswbstatement:P180=Q191931” into the Commons searchbox, you will get the same results. Thanks to the structured data on commons project+team!
Also, around half of the Commons categories now have multilingual labels embedded in them through the Wikidata Infobox, which means that if you do an ordinary search for a phrase in a different language, you should find the correct commons category if it exists. E.g., try searching for “Telescopio Lovell”, or "洛弗尔望远镜". The infobox also has a link at the bottom of it that you can click on to search depicts statements for that category’s topic without having to look up the QID first.
Thanks, Mike
On 24 May 2020, at 10:30, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, Two more localisations became available, one for German and one for Swedish. I have asked Alolita if she would help us with a localisation in an Indian language. Anthere, would you be so kind and reach out so that
we
have a localisation in an African language as well.. (French would also
be
good to have :) )
In the mean time I have linked pictures of the kakapoa to its Wikidata item, you can search for it in Maori.
For me the point of this proof of concept is that we already can expose material in any of our languages. We can make this available and promote the addition of "depicts" statements in Commons and labels in Wikidata.
In
a true Wiki way it brings additional functionality to any and all of our users.. It will improve over time.
When we are to know the extend of its usefulness, we need continuous statistics (we have them for Reasonator as well, just as an example). Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 07:33, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation
is
key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and
obvious
search function for mediafiles that have a link to a Wikidata item.
Just to
stress the point, this is a wiki, we do not need a fully functional
search
engine (for all the Commons files); that is what we aspire to that is
what
we work towards.. That will take years. But with a proper search tool, a tool that makes it EASY to use Commons, it may fool me into using
Commons
for my blog.
To show you that it works, I just looked for "baisikeli https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/baisikeli#Swahili" and made a
screenshot
[1]. The screenshot is with other files showing the evolution of this
tool
in a Commons category [2]
Important to notice is that the tool DOES invite you to localise the labels to French, Swahili et al for best results!!
A minor observation, there are all kinds of things that could change in the user interface. Key is that this is a prototype. It is showing us
how
we can make Commons work for us. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes3.png [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far
less
relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course, it does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see
it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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First of all, good job. I appreciate that.
To be honest, however, some of us did not need a "proof of concept" to know that this was possible, we would have helped to build it years ago if the situation allowed it. it did not, the "social" environment was against it. We could not de facto support the metadata architecture with a bottom-up approach and a top-down strategy was necessary to go forward and, as a result, their quality is limited... so any service based on them will be limited as well for a while. It's a step in the right direction and I wish you all the best... you need me to translate in Italian, fine, I am here.
The problem is however that it took more time than necessary to get there and it would be useful to face that. You don't have to explain to many of us what metadata were for in the end and what long-term change they can introduce, we knew that because you can see their use in many other platforms an get an idea how they are supposed to work...even newbies with professional experience got the concept that Wikidata could help Commons, by themselves. So the question is IMHO how this changes the minds of active users who did and do not care even now.
Something of course changed over the years... nothing is static. When the Wikidata infobox arrived the comments of distrust of Wikidata drastically reduced, but it was not long time before this introduction that some Commons users were still insulting you for leaving a welcome template on their Wikidata talk page. Is their attitude the core reason why these efforts are late? IMHO it is. Is it going to be solved? Because if it's not, this introduction wlll be in any case very slow. A bumpy road. We will have two mentalities coexisting at the same time, as we have for example with metadata.
Also, what does it mean for us who are active also in the real world? Not a greta change yet if the timeline is slow. When I went to a third party I had to say Commons was late on many issues (categorization, metadata, search engine, metrics, copyright guidelines, lack of analytical instrument for the backlog, workflow of NC files...) and no doubt such gaps were going to be filled one day but not soon (definitely much slower than many other issues on other platforms). Now I can say it's still late and is (as expected) catching up on this issue. Still, the third party won't be impressed, the reply will be "good. call me when it's ready". Which is fair, they are doing their job. I can't change that yet. I don't know how my attitude can change it. I still think that this relies on the attitude of the bulk of users that even now are not interested in dealing with such long-term issues of Commons and any effort will wait a lot to get a clear feedback.
Il domenica 24 maggio 2020, 15:38:36 CEST, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com ha scritto:
Hoi, Mike you are absolutely right but you are missing the point that I am trying to make. Yes, what is exposed by Hay's SDSEARCH tool is based on all the work that was done before and as such it relies absolutely on the work that has been done before. Without it, this tool would not be possible. This work is key for us to move forward.
What is so vitally important about this proof of concept is that it readily opens up Commons depending on a localised user interface. Even when that is not available search, it is possible based to search based on the availability of labels in a language. This proof of concept dramatically shows that nothing more is needed to open up Commons to a multilingual public.
This proof of concept is an invitation to adopt this approach and make it available in properly internationalised code as part of a multilingual Commons user interface. It invites people to participate and with some social engineering it the shore that turns the ship in making Commons a much more positive place. Why, because making Commons usable even useful is what we have not done for all the languages but English. When people are happy to use Commons, they are more likely to participate and join its community.
So far we could not care less as long as it was used in our own projects. The challenge that I present to you is to make Commons *my goto place* for illustrations for my blog. When you can convince me, you convince the world.
Remember our approach is that of a wiki. It does not have to be perfect, it has to empower us to move forward. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 15:12, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
Hi all,
It’s worth remembering that this functionality is built in to Commons, it’s just not as user-friendly. From the example below, if you put "haswbstatement:P180=Q191931” into the Commons searchbox, you will get the same results. Thanks to the structured data on commons project+team!
Also, around half of the Commons categories now have multilingual labels embedded in them through the Wikidata Infobox, which means that if you do an ordinary search for a phrase in a different language, you should find the correct commons category if it exists. E.g., try searching for “Telescopio Lovell”, or "洛弗尔望远镜". The infobox also has a link at the bottom of it that you can click on to search depicts statements for that category’s topic without having to look up the QID first.
Thanks, Mike
On 24 May 2020, at 10:30, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, Two more localisations became available, one for German and one for Swedish. I have asked Alolita if she would help us with a localisation in an Indian language. Anthere, would you be so kind and reach out so that
we
have a localisation in an African language as well.. (French would also
be
good to have :) )
In the mean time I have linked pictures of the kakapoa to its Wikidata item, you can search for it in Maori.
For me the point of this proof of concept is that we already can expose material in any of our languages. We can make this available and promote the addition of "depicts" statements in Commons and labels in Wikidata.
In
a true Wiki way it brings additional functionality to any and all of our users.. It will improve over time.
When we are to know the extend of its usefulness, we need continuous statistics (we have them for Reasonator as well, just as an example). Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 07:33, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation
is
key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and
obvious
search function for mediafiles that have a link to a Wikidata item.
Just to
stress the point, this is a wiki, we do not need a fully functional
search
engine (for all the Commons files); that is what we aspire to that is
what
we work towards.. That will take years. But with a proper search tool, a tool that makes it EASY to use Commons, it may fool me into using
Commons
for my blog.
To show you that it works, I just looked for "baisikeli https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/baisikeli#Swahili" and made a
screenshot
[1]. The screenshot is with other files showing the evolution of this
tool
in a Commons category [2]
Important to notice is that the tool DOES invite you to localise the labels to French, Swahili et al for best results!!
A minor observation, there are all kinds of things that could change in the user interface. Key is that this is a prototype. It is showing us
how
we can make Commons work for us. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes3.png [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement.
This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may get a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far
less
relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a label exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and get the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type in "kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course, it does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see
it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further, and to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
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Hoi, Indeed, we have all known what things are possible and, indeed we have all been calling for a change in the "Commons experience". Now the great thing of this "proof of concept" is that at this time it stands alone. It demonstrates that multilingual search can be harnessed in what is only a translatable user interface. As we speak there are seven translations available including Japanese and Portuguese. Three translations are waiting in the wings to become active.
This proof of concept is largely based on existing WMF functionality so it takes very little for the Wikimedia Foundation to adopt the code, do it properly particularly for the Internationalisation. Once it is available, there is nothing stopping a language community enabling it on their projects INCLUDING by having a main page for Commons in that language. That could be a strategy when the Commons community prevents its use for English..
Again, the approach here is for growing this functionality organically. There is no need for everything to be complete, for all the files to be linked to Wikidata items. It does not matter when a language has only a few labels in Wikidata, it is a start. As more labels become available it really quickly becomes useful for that language not only in Commons but also for Wikidata (consider Reasonator like functionality. Just consider googling for pictures in that language and that will open your eyes to the opportunity we have in front of us.
What I also hope for is for the Wikimedia Foundation to consider is that there is more to offer than just Wikipedia. It does not take much to start opening up Commons. It does not take much to see information in a Reasonator kinda approach. The "omdenken" [1] that it requires is for WMF to consider growing our endusers and not only considering growing our contributing community.
PS Allessandro, please do add Italian to the list that has a translation for the prototype... Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://omdenken.com/flip-thinking/
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 17:39, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l < wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
First of all, good job. I appreciate that.
To be honest, however, some of us did not need a "proof of concept" to know that this was possible, we would have helped to build it years ago if the situation allowed it. it did not, the "social" environment was against it. We could not de facto support the metadata architecture with a bottom-up approach and a top-down strategy was necessary to go forward and, as a result, their quality is limited... so any service based on them will be limited as well for a while. It's a step in the right direction and I wish you all the best... you need me to translate in Italian, fine, I am here.
The problem is however that it took more time than necessary to get there and it would be useful to face that. You don't have to explain to many of us what metadata were for in the end and what long-term change they can introduce, we knew that because you can see their use in many other platforms an get an idea how they are supposed to work...even newbies with professional experience got the concept that Wikidata could help Commons, by themselves. So the question is IMHO how this changes the minds of active users who did and do not care even now.
Something of course changed over the years... nothing is static. When the Wikidata infobox arrived the comments of distrust of Wikidata drastically reduced, but it was not long time before this introduction that some Commons users were still insulting you for leaving a welcome template on their Wikidata talk page. Is their attitude the core reason why these efforts are late? IMHO it is. Is it going to be solved? Because if it's not, this introduction wlll be in any case very slow. A bumpy road. We will have two mentalities coexisting at the same time, as we have for example with metadata.
Also, what does it mean for us who are active also in the real world? Not a greta change yet if the timeline is slow. When I went to a third party I had to say Commons was late on many issues (categorization, metadata, search engine, metrics, copyright guidelines, lack of analytical instrument for the backlog, workflow of NC files...) and no doubt such gaps were going to be filled one day but not soon (definitely much slower than many other issues on other platforms). Now I can say it's still late and is (as expected) catching up on this issue. Still, the third party won't be impressed, the reply will be "good. call me when it's ready". Which is fair, they are doing their job. I can't change that yet. I don't know how my attitude can change it. I still think that this relies on the attitude of the bulk of users that even now are not interested in dealing with such long-term issues of Commons and any effort will wait a lot to get a clear feedback.
Il domenica 24 maggio 2020, 15:38:36 CEST, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Hoi, Mike you are absolutely right but you are missing the point that I am trying to make. Yes, what is exposed by Hay's SDSEARCH tool is based on all the work that was done before and as such it relies absolutely on the work that has been done before. Without it, this tool would not be possible. This work is key for us to move forward.
What is so vitally important about this proof of concept is that it readily opens up Commons depending on a localised user interface. Even when that is not available search, it is possible based to search based on the availability of labels in a language. This proof of concept dramatically shows that nothing more is needed to open up Commons to a multilingual public.
This proof of concept is an invitation to adopt this approach and make it available in properly internationalised code as part of a multilingual Commons user interface. It invites people to participate and with some social engineering it the shore that turns the ship in making Commons a much more positive place. Why, because making Commons usable even useful is what we have not done for all the languages but English. When people are happy to use Commons, they are more likely to participate and join its community.
So far we could not care less as long as it was used in our own projects. The challenge that I present to you is to make Commons *my goto place* for illustrations for my blog. When you can convince me, you convince the world.
Remember our approach is that of a wiki. It does not have to be perfect, it has to empower us to move forward. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 15:12, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
Hi all,
It’s worth remembering that this functionality is built in to Commons, it’s just not as user-friendly. From the example below, if you put "haswbstatement:P180=Q191931” into the Commons searchbox, you will get
the
same results. Thanks to the structured data on commons project+team!
Also, around half of the Commons categories now have multilingual labels embedded in them through the Wikidata Infobox, which means that if you do an ordinary search for a phrase in a different language, you should find the correct commons category if it exists. E.g., try searching for “Telescopio Lovell”, or "洛弗尔望远镜". The infobox also has a link at the
bottom
of it that you can click on to search depicts statements for that category’s topic without having to look up the QID first.
Thanks, Mike
On 24 May 2020, at 10:30, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, Two more localisations became available, one for German and one for Swedish. I have asked Alolita if she would help us with a localisation
in
an Indian language. Anthere, would you be so kind and reach out so that
we
have a localisation in an African language as well.. (French would also
be
good to have :) )
In the mean time I have linked pictures of the kakapoa to its Wikidata item, you can search for it in Maori.
For me the point of this proof of concept is that we already can expose material in any of our languages. We can make this available and
promote
the addition of "depicts" statements in Commons and labels in Wikidata.
In
a true Wiki way it brings additional functionality to any and all of
our
users.. It will improve over time.
When we are to know the extend of its usefulness, we need continuous statistics (we have them for Reasonator as well, just as an example). Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 07:33, Gerard Meijssen <
gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
wrote:
Hoi, Florence I totally agree that proper internatonalisation, localisation
is
key. What is key for me is that this already provides an easy and
obvious
search function for mediafiles that have a link to a Wikidata item.
Just to
stress the point, this is a wiki, we do not need a fully functional
search
engine (for all the Commons files); that is what we aspire to that is
what
we work towards.. That will take years. But with a proper search
tool, a
tool that makes it EASY to use Commons, it may fool me into using
Commons
for my blog.
To show you that it works, I just looked for "baisikeli https://nl.wiktionary.org/wiki/baisikeli#Swahili" and made a
screenshot
[1]. The screenshot is with other files showing the evolution of this
tool
in a Commons category [2]
Important to notice is that the tool DOES invite you to localise the labels to French, Swahili et al for best results!!
A minor observation, there are all kinds of things that could change
in
the user interface. Key is that this is a prototype. It is showing us
how
we can make Commons work for us. Thanks, GerardM
[1] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Appelmoes3.png [2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Hay%27s_SDSEARCH
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 01:21, Florence Devouard anthere@anthere.org wrote:
Le 24/05/2020 à 00:23, Erik Moeller a écrit :
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 10:10 AM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
> Hay Kranen created a proof of concept where Commons is searched for > pictures that (per standard) use a "depicts" statement. This is a beautiful proof of concept; thank you for sharing it, Gerard, and thank you, Hay, for developing it. It really illustrates the power and importance of the Structured Data efforts.
To pick a different example, imagine that you want to illustrate an article about the importance of wheelchair accessibility at your university. You might try a major search engine like Google Images. Try replacing the word "wheelchair" with translations in other languages. Note how the result sets are different, and how you may
get
a much smaller set of results in languages with a smaller Internet presence.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wheelchair&tbm=isch (English) https://www.google.com/search?q=kitimaguru&tbm=isch (Swahili, far
less
relevant and smaller set)
In contrast, the use of Wikidata items means that, as long as a
label
exists for a given language, you can search in _any_ language and
get
the same images:
https://tools.wmflabs.org/hay/sdsearch/#q=haswbstatement:P180=Q191931
The fact that the UI of this tool is currently English is an implementation detail; even with Hay's implementation, you can type
in
"kitimaguru" and get the same results as in English.
Sorry Erik, but I do not follow you here...
For some reasons, it is true for "kitimaguru", but if I search for "lamp" (EN) versus "lampe" (FR), or "key" (English) versus "clé" (French), I really do not get the same results at all and of course,
it
does not proposes me the same Qs.
I love that functionality, do not get me wrong, I am delighted to see
it.
But except for English speakers (and now Dutch speakers it seems), it can not be used.
So wonderful proof of concept. But please... let's have all languages here !
Florence
It would be wonderful to see this functionality developed further,
and
to ultimately make this kind of search functionality central to the user experience for Wikimedia Commons, so that speakers of any language are given _meaningful_ access to freely reusable media.
Warmly,
Erik
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Hi Gerard,
I mostly agree with you. However, I disagree with this:
This proof of concept is largely based on existing WMF functionality so it takes very little for the Wikimedia Foundation to adopt the code, do it properly particularly for the Internationalisation.
Turning prototype code into production code is never trivial. When you’re writing a prototype, you get to skip all performance and edge case concerns, and you don’t need to integrate it into existing code, you’re just interested in getting something working. I hope (and expect) that the WMF will make improvements to Commons’ multilingual search in the future, but it’s definitely not a “very little” amount of work that needs doing, it’s a year or more worth of developer time.
Thanks, Mike
Hoi, I have been a professional developer for much of my working life. From what I know of what Hay has done, I know you are wrong depending on the approach taken. Building this functionality can be an iterative process, it does not need to be all singing all dancing from the start. At one time the WMF used the agile methodology and you can break up a project like this in parts, functional parts.
* The first part is a hack to replace the current code with internationalised code and have it localised in Translatewiki.net. * You then want to build in functionality that measures its use. It also measures the extend labeling expands in Wikidata because of this tool. In essence this is not essential. * As the tool becomes more popular, it follows that the database may need tuning to allow for its expanded use
* A next phase is for the code to be made into an extension enabling the native use in MediaWiki projects. This does not mean Commons, it may be in any language projects that cares to use it. It is particularly the small languages (less than 100.000 articles). * Given that measurements are in place, it then follows that we learn what it takes to expand the usage of images. Not only but also for our projects. For a first time the small languages take precedence.. The primary reason is that for those languages there are few pictures that they find when they google or bing. * When there is an expressed demand for bigger languages < 1.000.000 articles, we add these on the basis of a first come, first served basis. This is to ensure a steady growth path in the usage. * Once we understand the scaling issues, we can expand to Commons itself and any and all projects. * Once we consider sharing freely licensed media files a priority, we can speed the process up within the limits of what is technically feasible.
At the same time, we keep the standalone function available. It will serve a subset of our potential public. This will help us understand the pent up demand for a service like this. When the WMF is truly "agile" in its development, it is a business decision what priority it gets. Much of what I describe has been done by us before; it is not rocket science. The first phase could be done within a month. Scaling up the usage and integrating it in existing code and projects may indeed take the best of a year. Again, that is not so much a technical but much more a business consideration. As always, technical issues may crop up and they are refactored in an agile process. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 20:36, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
Hi Gerard,
I mostly agree with you. However, I disagree with this:
This proof of concept is largely based on existing WMF functionality so
it
takes very little for the Wikimedia Foundation to adopt the code, do it properly particularly for the Internationalisation.
Turning prototype code into production code is never trivial. When you’re writing a prototype, you get to skip all performance and edge case concerns, and you don’t need to integrate it into existing code, you’re just interested in getting something working. I hope (and expect) that the WMF will make improvements to Commons’ multilingual search in the future, but it’s definitely not a “very little” amount of work that needs doing, it’s a year or more worth of developer time.
Thanks, Mike _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hey everyone, first of all, thanks for all the compliments on my tool! I'm really glad that people think it is of use.
First of all, i made a couple of updates to the tool, including adding i18n support, category search and links to Petscan. I've posted an update on Twitter: https://twitter.com/hayify/status/1264647593218408449
Just a couple of general observations and thoughts about this project. When i started development i had two main goals:
1) To showcase the beauty and richness of the media on Wikimedia Commons There are many files on Wikicommons that are of exceptional quality, but unfortunately the current search results page doesn't really do a lot of effort to showcase that, compared to search engines like Google or Yandex. This is why the Structured Search results overview focuses on big thumbnails and not on the metadata (i doubt many users are interested in the filesize or resolution for example, which are shown on the current Commons results page). This has been a big grudge of me for many years, i've even came across a Phabricator ticket from almost five(!) years ago where i was already proposing something like this (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T104565).
2) To showcase the usefulness of structured data Currently the only way to search for structured data is by using the 'haswbstatement' filter in the search engine. I doubt many people know this (i didn't until Maarten Dammers pointed me to it) and the user-friendliness is pretty low, given that you need to fill in property and item numbers by hand. The best way to find media based on structured data would be using a SPARQL endpoint (just as on Wikidata), but unfortunately work on that has been slow (see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141602). So this tool is basically a stopgap to author Commons search queries using haswbstatement until we have a proper SPARQL endpoint for SDoC.
A couple of other points that might be of use: * Structured Search queries are completely compatible with Wikimedia Commons search engine queries. It's the exact same format. Any query that can be done using a Commons search query can be done on Structured Search (given that it uses the 'File' namespace). I've made a Commons gadget you can use if you want a link from Commons search results directly to the tool (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Husky/sdsearch.js) * I'm really pleased with the translations that have already been made. Updating the localisations is still a manual process, i'll change that to something more automatic in the future. * I don't intend this to be the replacement of the regular search on Commons, i just hope it can serve as an inspiration and as a solution to people who want to have something more visual than the current search UI.
I don't read this mailing list too much, so for feature requests or bug reports it's probably best if you submit an issue on Github (https://github.com/hay/wiki-tools) or reach out to me on Twitter (@hayify) or via Wikimail.
Kind regards, -- Hay
On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 9:20 PM Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, I have been a professional developer for much of my working life. From what I know of what Hay has done, I know you are wrong depending on the approach taken. Building this functionality can be an iterative process, it does not need to be all singing all dancing from the start. At one time the WMF used the agile methodology and you can break up a project like this in parts, functional parts.
- The first part is a hack to replace the current code with
internationalised code and have it localised in Translatewiki.net.
- You then want to build in functionality that measures its use. It also
measures the extend labeling expands in Wikidata because of this tool. In essence this is not essential.
- As the tool becomes more popular, it follows that the database may need
tuning to allow for its expanded use
- A next phase is for the code to be made into an extension enabling the
native use in MediaWiki projects. This does not mean Commons, it may be in any language projects that cares to use it. It is particularly the small languages (less than 100.000 articles).
- Given that measurements are in place, it then follows that we learn what
it takes to expand the usage of images. Not only but also for our projects. For a first time the small languages take precedence.. The primary reason is that for those languages there are few pictures that they find when they google or bing.
- When there is an expressed demand for bigger languages < 1.000.000
articles, we add these on the basis of a first come, first served basis. This is to ensure a steady growth path in the usage.
- Once we understand the scaling issues, we can expand to Commons itself
and any and all projects.
- Once we consider sharing freely licensed media files a priority, we can
speed the process up within the limits of what is technically feasible.
At the same time, we keep the standalone function available. It will serve a subset of our potential public. This will help us understand the pent up demand for a service like this. When the WMF is truly "agile" in its development, it is a business decision what priority it gets. Much of what I describe has been done by us before; it is not rocket science. The first phase could be done within a month. Scaling up the usage and integrating it in existing code and projects may indeed take the best of a year. Again, that is not so much a technical but much more a business consideration. As always, technical issues may crop up and they are refactored in an agile process. Thanks, GerardM
On Sun, 24 May 2020 at 20:36, Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
Hi Gerard,
I mostly agree with you. However, I disagree with this:
This proof of concept is largely based on existing WMF functionality so
it
takes very little for the Wikimedia Foundation to adopt the code, do it properly particularly for the Internationalisation.
Turning prototype code into production code is never trivial. When you’re writing a prototype, you get to skip all performance and edge case concerns, and you don’t need to integrate it into existing code, you’re just interested in getting something working. I hope (and expect) that the WMF will make improvements to Commons’ multilingual search in the future, but it’s definitely not a “very little” amount of work that needs doing, it’s a year or more worth of developer time.
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On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 8:12 AM Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
It’s worth remembering that this functionality is built in to Commons, it’s just not as user-friendly. From the example below, if you put "haswbstatement:P180=Q191931” into the Commons searchbox, you will get the same results. Thanks to the structured data on commons project+team!
This is true.
The Structured Data team is working on a media search prototype that is similar in function to Hay's tool. It's in the very earliest of early stages, that is to say that it works, and the team would like to hear feedback.
Have a look over the project page if you're interested to see what a tool like Hay's could look like on Commons itself: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Media_search
Comments welcome on the talk page, I'm slowly spreading the word about this.
Hoi, I have been playing with the tool for some time and it is already great; it works and it is a great basis to expand on. Expand its functionality and data quality.
I added a label in Urdu in Wikidata for "Mujaddid Ahmad Ijaz" and once the synchronisation was done, I found a wealth of pictures for him. That IS powerful and demonstrates how labeling in Wikidata improves results in Commons. I looked for "Frans Vera", a Dutch ecologists, not really finding him in a lot of noisy results. There was one picture of him, I linked it to his Wikidata item and after the synchronisation he was the first result. That IS powerful because it shows how the linking to Wikidata of pictures improves results.
As it is, it has important qualifications over Hay's tool and what Hay has done is breaking ground. Now we know about the official proof of concept; it has important advantages; * it is internationalised and gets localised daily. * it is already included in Commons so it will/must scale. * it is supported by the WMF
One key question for me is; do we know its use. Do we know in what language it is used? When people start using it for real, will we know? Commons has enormous potential and it is now for us to make this a reality. One challenge will be to convince me to use it. I do want to be convinced and I am seeking for the arguments but in the end the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Keegan, I understand that as a technical guy you prefer to take it slowly,
For the WMF this is probably the biggest opportunity to remedy much of its bias against all the "other" languages. I will blog and write about my experiences because this has the potential to transform us into a truly multi lingual movement as we now have ties that binds everything together. Ties that are in and of themselves are useful in any language. Thanks, GerardM
On Fri, 29 May 2020 at 18:57, Keegan Peterzell kpeterzell@wikimedia.org wrote:
On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 8:12 AM Michael Peel email@mikepeel.net wrote:
It’s worth remembering that this functionality is built in to Commons, it’s just not as user-friendly. From the example below, if you put "haswbstatement:P180=Q191931” into the Commons searchbox, you will get
the
same results. Thanks to the structured data on commons project+team!
This is true.
The Structured Data team is working on a media search prototype that is similar in function to Hay's tool. It's in the very earliest of early stages, that is to say that it works, and the team would like to hear feedback.
Have a look over the project page if you're interested to see what a tool like Hay's could look like on Commons itself: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Structured_data/Media_search
Comments welcome on the talk page, I'm slowly spreading the word about this.
-- Keegan Peterzell (he/him) Community Relations Specialist Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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