Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a better integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists. Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and her sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine
Often I see or make additions to articles & then see hidden categories like Official Website not in Wikidata or Coordinates not in Wikidata, or the Authority Control data is in Wikidata but it has an LCCN parameter added in the template in Wikipedia. Are there any semi-automated tools that would facilitate moving such data into Wikidata when we encounter these things? How can we improve the workflow to aid the transfer of this data?
Yours, Peaceray
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a better integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists. Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and her sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include definitions in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that matter, we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put, isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a better integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists. Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and her sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added to Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki, and a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include definitions in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that matter, we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put, isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists. Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after the creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the first stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better if this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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If you've had some users requesting such a feature, could it perhaps be added as an opt-in preference setting? I'd be very annoyed by such a feature if it couldn't be disabled, and many might just be confused by it. On Oct 29, 2015 2:08 PM, "Romaine Wiki" romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added to Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki, and a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put, isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists. Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I am 100% sure that such feature is optional: users must have the option to deactivate it. The feature will only work if it is an opt-out feature, because if users are informed about adding to Wikidata, most of them do. It are exactly those users who have not been informed which should get a message.
Romaine
2015-10-29 21:19 GMT+01:00 Todd Allen toddmallen@gmail.com:
If you've had some users requesting such a feature, could it perhaps be added as an opt-in preference setting? I'd be very annoyed by such a feature if it couldn't be disabled, and many might just be confused by it. On Oct 29, 2015 2:08 PM, "Romaine Wiki" romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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This is where I disagree with you, Romaine. I do believe my examples are exactly right. We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice. We have a hard enough time recruiting contributors to any of our projects now, and pressuring them to work on other projects at the same time is not the path to volunteer satisfaction.
Consider that the hypothetical editor you mention, who writes five articles a day, may really not have any interest in adding to Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikiquote, etc. Is there benefit in pressuring him to do so? Or is it more likely that he'll stop contributing to the Wikidata backlog by not creating the articles in the first place?
On many of the larger projects, and in fact on many of the smaller ones too, only registered, logged-in users can create articles. "Logged in" is not a reasonable filter. A preference to receive a reminder that Wikidata is missing would work. But it should not automatically pop up whenever someone creates an article, which is just as likely to annoy editors.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added to Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki, and a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't really feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they review on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add to Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly put, isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add junk data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't be adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are not added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject exists. Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is no stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc) in what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay in Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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If you want to add a new image to Wikipedia, this image has to be on Commons (nl-wiki situation). If interwikilinks should be seen in the sidebar, the article needs to be added to Wikidata. This are the two relevant examples, other mentioned examples are not relevant as there is requirement in place.
I give many workshops in editing Wikipedia and I see there two main issues why new editors are experiencing editing Wikipedia as difficult: 1. there is no social environment, 2. the software is too complex to handle. One of the things the community expect is that articles are added to Wikidata, and still this isn't made easier for them.
The complaint is that the users do not get a automatic message that it should be added, so they do not see a reason to add it themselves. Further they miss an easy way workflow to do this, exactly what I propose here.
That the English Wikipedia has once decided to shut down article creation by unregistered users, this is on many wikis not the case. The English Wikipedia is not the norm that should be followed everywhere.
Romaine
2015-10-29 21:20 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
This is where I disagree with you, Romaine. I do believe my examples are exactly right. We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice. We have a hard enough time recruiting contributors to any of our projects now, and pressuring them to work on other projects at the same time is not the path to volunteer satisfaction.
Consider that the hypothetical editor you mention, who writes five articles a day, may really not have any interest in adding to Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikiquote, etc. Is there benefit in pressuring him to do so? Or is it more likely that he'll stop contributing to the Wikidata backlog by not creating the articles in the first place?
On many of the larger projects, and in fact on many of the smaller ones too, only registered, logged-in users can create articles. "Logged in" is not a reasonable filter. A preference to receive a reminder that Wikidata is missing would work. But it should not automatically pop up whenever someone creates an article, which is just as likely to annoy editors.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
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I am going to suggest something, but I have no idea of the development that it will take.
Currently Visual Editor has Template forms. If Template data that has been inputted into a form can be directed to be stored automatically in Wikidata instead of Wikipedia, & that data is then pulled back into the page, I believe this would be transparent to the editor.
Yours, Peaceray
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
This is where I disagree with you, Romaine. I do believe my examples are exactly right. We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice. We have a hard enough time recruiting contributors to any of our projects now, and pressuring them to work on other projects at the same time is not the path to volunteer satisfaction.
Consider that the hypothetical editor you mention, who writes five articles a day, may really not have any interest in adding to Wikidata, Wikisource, Wikiquote, etc. Is there benefit in pressuring him to do so? Or is it more likely that he'll stop contributing to the Wikidata backlog by not creating the articles in the first place?
On many of the larger projects, and in fact on many of the smaller ones too, only registered, logged-in users can create articles. "Logged in" is not a reasonable filter. A preference to receive a reminder that Wikidata is missing would work. But it should not automatically pop up whenever someone creates an article, which is just as likely to annoy editors.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
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Hi Risker,
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice.
I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the editor the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means uploading Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very smooth, and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow the flow.
Leila
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should be added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100 new articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to Commons when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to be adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that people would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing and improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen, etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
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I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
"Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect it to those! Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is added value to their own work; language links are an important part of this.
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Risker,
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice.
I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the editor the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means uploading Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very smooth, and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow the flow.
Leila
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should
be
added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a message after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps further settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are not added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100
new
articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to
Commons
when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people to
be
adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they
add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
people
would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that, bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing
and
improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that
after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen,
etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can
stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
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While I agree that there is a necessity to link pages through Wikidata I'm with Risker such a message would itself become a barrier to the creation of content, we have enough of those already. We are forgetting that the people doing the edits do so as volunteers not paid employees, they do so for various intrinsic reasons the majority of our developments over time have been eroding those intrinsic reasons with greater complexities, rigid demands and wikilawyering of policies you cant force volunteers to do what you want the way you want when you want because ultimately they wont do anything and that is what we have been seeing over the last 5 years with editor decline.
It would be better to see skilled Wikidata people out in the communities training and talking personally to contributors building the skill sets but if such activity isnt your cup of tea then no matter how heavy handed you get its just not going to get done or people will just walk away form the whole .
On 30 October 2015 at 06:22, Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com wrote:
I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
"Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect it to those! Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is added value to their own work; language links are an important part of this.
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Risker,
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice.
I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the
editor
the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means
uploading
Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very
smooth,
and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow
the
flow.
Leila
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should
be
added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a
message
after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps
further
settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are
not
added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100
new
articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one
wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to
Commons
when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people
to
be
adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they
add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
people
would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that,
bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing
and
improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata
development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those
are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there
is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that
after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen,
etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In
the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can
stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of
Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@lists.wi...
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Yes, exactly. :-)
2015-10-29 23:22 GMT+01:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
"Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect it to those! Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is added value to their own work; language links are an important part of this.
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Risker,
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice.
I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the
editor
the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means
uploading
Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very
smooth,
and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow
the
flow.
Leila
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant here. On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories should
be
added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only manual interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a
message
after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps
further
settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are
not
added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about 100
new
articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one
wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to
Commons
when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people
to
be
adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes they
add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
people
would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that,
bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add referencing
and
improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi all,
I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata
development: a
better
integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects.
Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those
are
not
added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as there
is
no
stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that
after
the
creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen,
etc)
in
what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In
the
first
stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can
stay
in
Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to Wikidata.
A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of
properties
(if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further
properties.
This will make sure that there is a better integration of
Wikipedia
and
her
sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow.
For this I created a Phabricator task at: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070
Thanks! Romaine _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org <
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I was just looking at the vital signs graph for Dutch and noticed that mobile page views has overtaken desktop pageviews on weekends, which is pretty cool. Maybe there could be a Wikigame that you could tune per language that connects items to articles? This wouldn't help with Wikipedians who refuse to look at Wikidata, but it may help with the overall reduction of double items. Just yesterday I found an item for a disambigution page for "Saftleven" in Italian Wikipedia without any statements at all and merged it to a pre-existing item for a "Saftleven" disambiguation page for two other language wikipedias that did have some statements. I think especially these sorts of items can be problematic, as the label which should link them up is not visible to the Wikipedian working in their own language wiki.
On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 4:31 AM, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, exactly. :-)
2015-10-29 23:22 GMT+01:00 Magnus Manske magnusmanske@googlemail.com:
I think it might just be a question of phrasing, actually.
"Check if your new topic already exists in other languages, and connect
it
to those! Or [click here] to start a new Wikidata item for your article, so other language editions of Wikipedia can find it more easily!"
For Wikipedians, the purpose of Wikidata is not "because Wikidata". It is added value to their own work; language links are an important part of this.
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 10:33 PM Leila Zia leila@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Risker,
On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Risker risker.wp@gmail.com wrote:
We do not expect anyone to add information to any other project when they create content on the project of their choice.
I'm thinking the Insert Media option in VE: there, we are giving the
editor
the option to upload Media to the article which in reality means
uploading
Media to Commons if I'm not missing something. The workflow is very
smooth,
and the Wikipedia editor does not need to know about Commons to follow
the
flow.
Leila
On 29 October 2015 at 16:08, Romaine Wiki romaine.wiki@gmail.com
wrote:
That is comparing it with wrong examples that are not relevant
here.
On Wikipedia we have the guideline that articles an categories
should
be
added to Wikidata, that originates back to the phase that only
manual
interwikis existed.
And we have already received complaints why users do not get a
message
after they created a category/article to add it to Wikidata.
Further I propose this only for (logged in) users, and perhaps
further
settings are possible.
At the moment the largest workload is coming from articles that are
not
added to Wikidata. Some users produce five articles a day, all not
added
to
Wikidata, while the articles are fine. In two days we have about
100
new
articles on nl-wiki, all not added to Wikidata. This is just one
wiki,
and
a huge workload to get them added properly.
Romaine
2015-10-29 20:46 GMT+01:00 Risker risker.wp@gmail.com:
Whatever happened to "Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can
edit"?
This is adding a layer of complexity and expectation that I don't
really
feel comfortable with. We don't expect people to add images to
Commons
when they write an article. We don't expect people to include
definitions
in Wiktionary when they are using a word. We don't expect people
to
be
adding material to Wikisource or add quotes to Wikiquote. For
that
matter,
we don't expect people to write Wikipedia articles about what
they
review
on wikisource, or about images they add to Commons, or quotes
they
add
to
Wikiquote. So why would we set up any kind of expectation that
people
would add "data" to Wikidata?
I also am concerned that people will add a new article that,
bluntly
put,
isn't going to last more than an hour...get these messages, and
add
junk
data to Wikidata. Wikidatians are working hard to add
referencing
and
improve what is there already, but it's a huge labour and we
shouldn't
be
adding to their mountain of work unnecessarily.
Risker/Anne
On 29 October 2015 at 14:37, Romaine Wiki <
romaine.wiki@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi all, > > I think it is time for the next step in the Wikidata
development: a
better > integration in Wikipedia and her sisterprojects. > > Every day thousands of articles are created, and many of those
are
not
> added to Wikidata, even while often an item about this subject
exists.
> Users forget to add a newly created article to Wikidata as
there
is
no
> stimulus at all. The next step in Wikidata development is that
after
the
> creation of an article, users get a message (pop-up, or screen,
etc)
in
> what they are asked to add the article/category to Wikidata. In
the
first
> stage this can be just a pop-up with a message. But it would be
better
if
> this can be a message + some help to do this, so that users can
stay
in
> Wikipedia (or another project), without having to go to
Wikidata.
> > A further step that can be developed after is the suggestion of properties > (if missing), like instance of, and based on this entry further properties. > > This will make sure that there is a better integration of
Wikipedia
and
her > sister projects with Wikidata through this workflow. > > For this I created a Phabricator task at: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T117070 > > Thanks! > Romaine > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > <
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