Criticism and harassment must be told apart. I feel
like LSP letter in
French does, while supporting letter on meta doesn't.
In collaborative projects driven by volunteers criticism should never be
downplayed, even when actively contrasting its specific instances.
Paid editing, neutrality, inclusion criteria are matters of substance
which are primarly up to Francophone community and are subject to different
opinions, while harassment is not susceptible of opinion but rather of
being stopped and sanctioned through the proper means.
Vito
Il giorno gio 22 set 2022 alle ore 17:31 Lane Chance <zinkloss(a)gmail.com>
ha scritto:
A detailed response by LSP to questions raised on
the French
Wikipedia, and a summary of the context of being subject to an
unpleasant pile on, and direct personal attacks on the team, was
published yesterday at:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Les_sans_pagEs/Réponses_aux_questions_…
If you can't read French, Google translate does a perfectly adequate
job to do the necessary reading everyone is expected to do as a *basic
courtesy*, before publishing opinions.
Lane
On Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 07:34, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It is hard to determine what is being complained about, when the letter
does not
actually link to any of the threads it complains about. If it did
that, it would be much more easily possible for someone to look into the
substance of it. It states that it has been linked to "continual bad-faith
arguments" (itself concerning; that's not a neutral summary) of discussions
"on the project’s talk page, on the administrators’ bulletin and on Le
Bistro and a formal RFC — including calls for the disestablishment of the
project on the basis of concerns around Conflicts of interest and Paid
editing."
Where are the links to those discussions? Where can I see what concerns
were
raised? If there is paid editing going on, that's a substantial
concern, as is COI. If the arguments are in bad faith, well, that should be
readily apparent, too. But where are the links?
Todd
On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:17 AM Lane Chance <zinkloss(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Responding to LGBTQ minority communities raising legitimate, evidence
> based, concerns of systemic bias with "stay in your lane"?
>
> I don't think I've read anything more tone deaf.
>
> The give away is "Without having looked into the actual substance". Do
> the research before rushing to punch down the voice of minority
> groups.
>
> Lane
>
> On Mon, 19 Sept 2022 at 01:25, Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Without having looked into the actual substance of whatever dispute
is
going on among frwiki and LSP, I want to put forward some good general
principles:
> > * The individual hiring and firing
decisions of our organizations
should be under the exclusive jurisdiction of the
entities assigned those
responsibilities. Public community pressure should not be able to get
someone fired or hired, or prevent any particular hiring or firing
decision. A public protest against someone's hiring is unproductive and
damages the collaborative environment.
> > * Responding to a community's
attitude by sending out a
monodirectional communication, organized off-wiki and
listing supporters'
affiliate positions, is basically the most conflict-oriented way possible
to approach this.
> >
> > How an affiliate manages their individual hires is the affiliate's
business. HR activities are complicated, and do not need to be handled in
the public sphere. If an affiliate wants to hire whoever, the community
doesn't get to veto it.
> >
> > How a community reacts to an affiliate's actions is their own
business. Affiliates do not get a say in local community affairs. A
usergroup's or chapter's collective opinion is completely irrelevant in a
community dialogue. If the community wants to ban someone, or even the
entire membership of a group, they can do that, and affiliates don't get to
veto it.
> >
> > (Seriously: It doesn't matter if you're the WMF's Board Chair, the
CEO, or whatever, you don't get an extra vote in an RfC.)
> >
> > (It should go without saying that hostile/uncivil behaviour,
harassment,
and accusations of bad faith are not acceptable.)
> >
> > Everyone, please stay in your lane. This is like the only place on
Wikimedia where we clearly even _have_ obvious distinct lanes, it should be
manageable.
> >
> > -- Yair Rand
> >
> >
> > בתאריך יום ו׳, 16 בספט׳ 2022 ב-4:30 מאת WM LGBT <
wikimedialgbt@gmail.com>:
> >>
> >> Link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Open_letter_of_support_for_Les_sans_pagEs
> >>
> >> Over 35 Wikimedia organisations and many individual Wikimedians have
> >> signed in support of the initiative of our Wikimedia Affiliate Les
> >> sans pagEs professionalising their work by hiring Nattes à chat as
> >> executive director to continue their longstanding work addressing
> >> systemic bias on Wikipedia and our sister projects and groups.
> >>
> >> Les sans pagEs should be free and supported to create a better
> >> quality, more complete French-language encyclopedia, representative
of
> >> different perspectives and lived
experiences, instead of having to
> >> defend their work against baseless accusations of malpractice.
> >>
> >> Please ask on the meta discussion page if you would like to add your
> >> Wikimedia organisation or name in support.
> >>
> >> On behalf of
> >> Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group
> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines
at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
_______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
To
unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org,
guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
To unsubscribe send an email to
wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
at: