A detailed response by LSP to questions raised on the French
Wikipedia, and a summary of the context of being subject to an
unpleasant pile on, and direct personal attacks on the team, was
published yesterday at:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Les_sans_pagEs/Réponses_aux_questions_…
If you can't read French, Google translate does a perfectly adequate
job to do the necessary reading everyone is expected to do as a *basic
courtesy*, before publishing opinions.
Lane
On Tue, 20 Sept 2022 at 07:34, Todd Allen <toddmallen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is hard to determine what is being complained about, when the letter does not
actually link to any of the threads it complains about. If it did that, it would be much
more easily possible for someone to look into the substance of it. It states that it has
been linked to "continual bad-faith arguments" (itself concerning; that's
not a neutral summary) of discussions "on the project’s talk page, on the
administrators’ bulletin and on Le Bistro and a formal RFC — including calls for the
disestablishment of the project on the basis of concerns around Conflicts of interest and
Paid editing."
>
> Where are the links to those discussions? Where can I see what concerns were raised?
If there is paid editing going on, that's a substantial concern, as is COI. If the
arguments are in bad faith, well, that should be readily apparent, too. But where are the
links?
>
> Todd
>
> On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:17 AM Lane Chance <zinkloss(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Responding to LGBTQ minority communities raising legitimate, evidence
>> based, concerns of systemic bias with "stay in your lane"?
>>
>> I don't think I've read anything more tone deaf.
>>
>> The give away is "Without having looked into the actual substance". Do
>> the research before rushing to punch down the voice of minority
>> groups.
>>
>> Lane
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Sept 2022 at 01:25, Yair Rand <yyairrand(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Without having looked into the actual substance of whatever dispute is going
on among frwiki and LSP, I want to put forward some good general principles:
>> > * The individual hiring and firing decisions of our organizations should be
under the exclusive jurisdiction of the entities assigned those responsibilities. Public
community pressure should not be able to get someone fired or hired, or prevent any
particular hiring or firing decision. A public protest against someone's hiring is
unproductive and damages the collaborative environment.
>> > * Responding to a community's attitude by sending out a monodirectional
communication, organized off-wiki and listing supporters' affiliate positions, is
basically the most conflict-oriented way possible to approach this.
>> >
>> > How an affiliate manages their individual hires is the affiliate's
business. HR activities are complicated, and do not need to be handled in the public
sphere. If an affiliate wants to hire whoever, the community doesn't get to veto it.
>> >
>> > How a community reacts to an affiliate's actions is their own business.
Affiliates do not get a say in local community affairs. A usergroup's or chapter's
collective opinion is completely irrelevant in a community dialogue. If the community
wants to ban someone, or even the entire membership of a group, they can do that, and
affiliates don't get to veto it.
>> >
>> > (Seriously: It doesn't matter if you're the WMF's Board Chair,
the CEO, or whatever, you don't get an extra vote in an RfC.)
>> >
>> > (It should go without saying that hostile/uncivil behaviour, harassment, and
accusations of bad faith are not acceptable.)
>> >
>> > Everyone, please stay in your lane. This is like the only place on Wikimedia
where we clearly even _have_ obvious distinct lanes, it should be manageable.
>> >
>> > -- Yair Rand
>> >
>> >
>> > בתאריך יום ו׳, 16 בספט׳ 2022 ב-4:30 מאת WM LGBT
<wikimedialgbt@gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >> Link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Open_letter_of_support_for_Les_sans_pagEs
>> >>
>> >> Over 35 Wikimedia organisations and many individual Wikimedians have
>> >> signed in support of the initiative of our Wikimedia Affiliate Les
>> >> sans pagEs professionalising their work by hiring Nattes à chat as
>> >> executive director to continue their longstanding work addressing
>> >> systemic bias on Wikipedia and our sister projects and groups.
>> >>
>> >> Les sans pagEs should be free and supported to create a better
>> >> quality, more complete French-language encyclopedia, representative of
>> >> different perspectives and lived experiences, instead of having to
>> >> defend their work against baseless accusations of malpractice.
>> >>
>> >> Please ask on the meta discussion page if you would like to add your
>> >> Wikimedia organisation or name in support.
>> >>
>> >> On behalf of
>> >> Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group
>> >>
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> >> Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> Public archives at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org…
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org