Dear All,
I have to announce that Hungary can not participate in WLM this year. I am very-very sad and upset about it, and I terrible sorry.
Before summer I sent an e-mail to the president of the National Office of Cultural Heritage, but I didn't get any answer for weeks. After two weeks I called the secretary about my e-mail, and I got to know that the president has resigned by 1st of July, and she didn't want to sign a new contract in her last weeks (but she left a note about her support on it). The new president was appointed in July, but in his first weeks he didn't want to deal with our contract. As soon as I arrived back from the US (Wikimania) I sent an e-mail to the new president about our co-operation, but I didn't get any answer for many days. When I called the secretary I got to know that the team prepared our contract last year was on holiday, after that the president went to holiday until 21 of August. After this day, I called the secretary and legal department daily, and on 27 of August there was a meeting where they discussed about our contract, but the president didn't decide about it. Then I called them every day, but I got a call yesterday, that the president is very busy and hasn't got time for this co-operation now. This is Hungary in 2012...
I wish you a big success and an extremely good competition for WLM 2012, I will follow it during the next weeks.
Best regards, Tamás [[User:Samat]]
Hi Tamás,
that is too bad to hear! Especially considering the great results the Hungarian contest delivered last year. With pain in my heart I will remove the name of the list...
Lodewijk
2012/8/31 Mészöly Tamás meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu
Dear All,
I have to announce that Hungary can not participate in WLM this year. I am very-very sad and upset about it, and I terrible sorry.
Before summer I sent an e-mail to the president of the National Office of Cultural Heritage, but I didn't get any answer for weeks. After two weeks I called the secretary about my e-mail, and I got to know that the president has resigned by 1st of July, and she didn't want to sign a new contract in her last weeks (but she left a note about her support on it). The new president was appointed in July, but in his first weeks he didn't want to deal with our contract. As soon as I arrived back from the US (Wikimania) I sent an e-mail to the new president about our co-operation, but I didn't get any answer for many days. When I called the secretary I got to know that the team prepared our contract last year was on holiday, after that the president went to holiday until 21 of August. After this day, I called the secretary and legal department daily, and on 27 of August there was a meeting where they discussed about our contract, but the president didn't decide about it. Then I called them every day, but I got a call yesterday, that the president is very busy and hasn't got time for this co-operation now. This is Hungary in 2012...
I wish you a big success and an extremely good competition for WLM 2012, I will follow it during the next weeks.
Best regards, Tamás [[User:Samat]]
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
What is the problem? Money, list of monuments?
2012/8/31 Mészöly Tamás meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu
Dear All,
I have to announce that Hungary can not participate in WLM this year. I am very-very sad and upset about it, and I terrible sorry.
Before summer I sent an e-mail to the president of the National Office of Cultural Heritage, but I didn't get any answer for weeks. After two weeks I called the secretary about my e-mail, and I got to know that the president has resigned by 1st of July, and she didn't want to sign a new contract in her last weeks (but she left a note about her support on it). The new president was appointed in July, but in his first weeks he didn't want to deal with our contract. As soon as I arrived back from the US (Wikimania) I sent an e-mail to the new president about our co-operation, but I didn't get any answer for many days. When I called the secretary I got to know that the team prepared our contract last year was on holiday, after that the president went to holiday until 21 of August. After this day, I called the secretary and legal department daily, and on 27 of August there was a meeting where they discussed about our contract, but the president didn't decide about it. Then I called them every day, but I got a call yesterday, that the president is very busy and hasn't got time for this co-operation now. This is Hungary in 2012...
I wish you a big success and an extremely good competition for WLM 2012, I will follow it during the next weeks.
Best regards, Tamás [[User:Samat]]
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Tamás, you were very fortunate to at least get a response from the government. :) We are organizing WLM in Romania without any support or official response from the government and I encourage you to do the same, if there aren't other insurmountable difficulties.
Regards, Strainu
2012/8/31 Mészöly Tamás meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu:
Dear All,
I have to announce that Hungary can not participate in WLM this year. I am very-very sad and upset about it, and I terrible sorry.
Before summer I sent an e-mail to the president of the National Office of Cultural Heritage, but I didn't get any answer for weeks. After two weeks I called the secretary about my e-mail, and I got to know that the president has resigned by 1st of July, and she didn't want to sign a new contract in her last weeks (but she left a note about her support on it). The new president was appointed in July, but in his first weeks he didn't want to deal with our contract. As soon as I arrived back from the US (Wikimania) I sent an e-mail to the new president about our co-operation, but I didn't get any answer for many days. When I called the secretary I got to know that the team prepared our contract last year was on holiday, after that the president went to holiday until 21 of August. After this day, I called the secretary and legal department daily, and on 27 of August there was a meeting where they discussed about our contract, but the president didn't decide about it. Then I called them every day, but I got a call yesterday, that the president is very busy and hasn't got time for this co-operation now. This is Hungary in 2012...
I wish you a big success and an extremely good competition for WLM 2012, I will follow it during the next weeks.
Best regards, Tamás [[User:Samat]]
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
2012/8/31 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com
Tamás, you were very fortunate to at least get a response from the government. :) We are organizing WLM in Romania without any support or official response from the government and I encourage you to do the same, if there aren't other insurmountable difficulties.
Exactly the same here. In my case, I wrote several times to the Culture Ministry asking for monument lists/suppor/broadcasting and they never answered anything. In fact, I wrote to several government entities and only one of them (the national library) ever answered (thanking me for the information; no support).
Now, I don't completely understand the problem with the lists. If you have already organized the contest last year, why not use the same lists?
Even if at the end you can't participate (I'm afraid is too late for it [?]), good work for trying, and for struggling with burocracy. It's not easy to do.
Oscar
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 4:55 PM, Racso racso@colombia.com wrote:
2012/8/31 Strainu strainu10@gmail.com
Tamás, you were very fortunate to at least get a response from the government. :) We are organizing WLM in Romania without any support or official response from the government and I encourage you to do the same, if there aren't other insurmountable difficulties.
Exactly the same here. In my case, I wrote several times to the Culture Ministry asking for monument lists/suppor/broadcasting and they never answered anything. In fact, I wrote to several government entities and only one of them (the national library) ever answered (thanking me for the information; no support).
Now, I don't completely understand the problem with the lists. If you have already organized the contest last year, why not use the same lists?
The issue is that last year they were very protective of their list (on the hand they have been hurt before with messed up cooperations, on the other hand as a default and safest attitude in protecting the "national data treasure") and we got permission to use the list only in connection with last year's contest (so we couldn't upload the lists on Wikipedia and legally can't reuse the database, even if we had it backed up).
Best regards, Bence (Hungary)
Even if at the end you can't participate (I'm afraid is too late for it [?]), good work for trying, and for struggling with burocracy. It's not easy to do.
Oscar
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Strainu, 31/08/2012 15:44:
Tamás, you were very fortunate to at least get a response from the government. :)
Indeed, daily calls to and a call back from the relevant officers sound like dreams here too. If they're actively discussing it and so helpful, maybe the new head only needs to familiarize with the matter and the contract could be signed later this month?
Nemo
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 5:35 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Strainu, 31/08/2012 15:44:
Tamás, you were very fortunate to at least get a response from the
government. :)
Indeed, daily calls to and a call back from the relevant officers sound like dreams here too. If they're actively discussing it and so helpful, maybe the new head only needs to familiarize with the matter and the contract could be signed later this month?
You are right, probably I should think of it positive and maybe few weeks later I will. I will try to return to the discussion with the new head later and I hope we will be successful for next years.
Thanks everybody for your answers and encouragement.
Regards, Tamás
ps.: I hope our situation is clear after Bence's answer, but don't hesitate to ask me, if I (we) missed any question
2012/8/31 Mészöly Tamás meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu:
This is Hungary in 2012...
Well, as Nemo was saying, this is not so different from Italy, too. We have a list of only 300 monuments (circa)[*] when we have a number of monuments in Italy in the range of hundreds of thousands (maybe more) because those are the only ones for which we have got an explicit authorisation. We expect to get some more onuments
So, keep trying, you have all the month. And then 2013 probably ;-)
Cristian
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Cristian Consonni kikkocristian@gmail.comwrote:
2012/8/31 Mészöly Tamás meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu:
This is Hungary in 2012...
Well, as Nemo was saying, this is not so different from Italy, too. We have a list of only 300 monuments (circa)[*] when we have a number of monuments in Italy in the range of hundreds of thousands (maybe more) because those are the only ones for which we have got an explicit authorisation. We expect to get some more onuments
If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
Tamás
Ooh.
In Ghana, its somehow the opposite. We need NO authorization from anyone; no national body seriously cares about monuments in the country.
Everything is open and easily accessible, though each monument site has got 'caretakers', just going there in tie means for a serious deal, so can take pictures even without paying any royalty - just being in tie, no matter the type of tie. Can even take a video if one wants to.
:-D
Happy WLM, (for countries already started) Rexford
On 8/31/2012 11:42 PM, Samat wrote:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:02 AM, Cristian Consonni <kikkocristian@gmail.com mailto:kikkocristian@gmail.com> wrote:
2012/8/31 Mészöly Tamás <meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu <mailto:meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.hu>>: > This is Hungary in 2012... Well, as Nemo was saying, this is not so different from Italy, too. We have a list of only 300 monuments (circa)[*] when we have a number of monuments in Italy in the range of hundreds of thousands (maybe more) because those are the only ones for which we have got an explicit authorisation. We expect to get some more onuments
If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
Tamás
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Am 01.09.12 01:53, schrieb Nkansah Rexford:
Ooh.
In Ghana, its somehow the opposite. We need NO authorization from anyone; no national body seriously cares about monuments in the country.
Everything is open and easily accessible, though each monument site has got 'caretakers', just going there in tie means for a serious deal, so can take pictures even without paying any royalty - just being in tie, no matter the type of tie. Can even take a video if one wants to.
I would LOVE to read this story (and a video) in a blog post. Would you like to write a couple of lines about your specific situation? We put it on the .org blog page then.
Thank you!
elke
Will see about that. @elya
On 9/1/12, elya ew_wp@web.de wrote:
Am 01.09.12 01:53, schrieb Nkansah Rexford:
Ooh.
In Ghana, its somehow the opposite. We need NO authorization from anyone; no national body seriously cares about monuments in the country.
Everything is open and easily accessible, though each monument site has got 'caretakers', just going there in tie means for a serious deal, so can take pictures even without paying any royalty - just being in tie, no matter the type of tie. Can even take a video if one wants to.
I would LOVE to read this story (and a video) in a blog post. Would you like to write a couple of lines about your specific situation? We put it on the .org blog page then.
Thank you!
elke
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Samat samat78@gmail.com wrote:
... If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
The monuments that were photographed last year should be re-photographable, at least..
Regards, Ole
Ole Palnatoke Andersen, 01/09/2012 10:42:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Samat <samat78@gmail.com mailto:samat78@gmail.com> wrote:
... If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
The monuments that were photographed last year should be re-photographable, at least..
What do you mean? If any list has been put on our wikis, that could be used (being CC-BY-SA), but the database protection at least seems to be an obstacle for which they probably don't have any.
Nemo
Anyway... how can a list of name of monuments and coordinates be copyrightable? That is like a list of municipalities and population data.
2012/9/1 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com
Ole Palnatoke Andersen, 01/09/2012 10:42:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Samat <samat78@gmail.com mailto:samat78@gmail.com> wrote:
... If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
The monuments that were photographed last year should be re-photographable, at least..
What do you mean? If any list has been put on our wikis, that could be used (being CC-BY-SA), but the database protection at least seems to be an obstacle for which they probably don't have any.
Nemo
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Although it is an extremely thrilling topic to discuss, I know that Tamás explored a LOT of options in Hungary. I'm not sure how helpful it is to discuss everything about this specific case again on this mailing list :) Perhaps a wiki page would be more helpful for this purpose, for example [[Commons talk:Wiki Loves Monuments 2012 in Hungary]] ? Then it actually gets preserved for a next time.
(Some people are complaining about the amount of email, so I'd like to try to focus the list traffic to more directly related topics)
Best, Lodewijk
2012/9/1 emijrp emijrp@gmail.com
Anyway... how can a list of name of monuments and coordinates be copyrightable? That is like a list of municipalities and population data.
2012/9/1 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com
Ole Palnatoke Andersen, 01/09/2012 10:42:
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 1:42 AM, Samat <samat78@gmail.com mailto:samat78@gmail.com> wrote:
... If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
The monuments that were photographed last year should be re-photographable, at least..
What do you mean? If any list has been put on our wikis, that could be used (being CC-BY-SA), but the database protection at least seems to be an obstacle for which they probably don't have any.
Nemo
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Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
On 01/09/12 01:42, Samat wrote:
If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
Tamás
You could extract a list of monuments from the images uploaded last year :P The government might not like such move, though.
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Platonides platonides@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/09/12 01:42, Samat wrote:
If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
Tamás
You could extract a list of monuments from the images uploaded last year :P The government might not like such move, though.
It can be a legal option for two thousand monuments, but we have around 13 thousand, and I'd like to use it only after our discussion got stuck.
On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Platonides platonides@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/09/12 01:42, Samat wrote:
If we couldn't cooperate with the national office, we could try to collect the list of monuments on community base, while the complete list is on my computer. Funny situation ;)
Tamás
You could extract a list of monuments from the images uploaded last year :P The government might not like such move, though.
That would work, but it would be more interesting to get pictures of the 11 thousand other monuments that didn't get photographed in the last contest :(
Best regards, Bence
(P.s. sorry to add to the traffic, but also, people could just "mute" topics they are not interested in. In gmail just press "m" on the keyboard.)
There is a news in this matter: http://index.hu/belfold/2012/09/06/megszunik_a_kulturalis_oroksegvedelmi_hiv... Google translated English version: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t...
Briefly: according to this online newpaper, the government will eliminate KÖH, the National Office of Cultural Heritage. Scopes of KÖH's duties probably goes back to some ministries. I am not sure it is a good news or bad news, but the situation is changing...
Samat
On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 2:29 PM, Mészöly Tamás meszoly.tamas@wikimedia.huwrote:
Dear All,
I have to announce that Hungary can not participate in WLM this year. I am very-very sad and upset about it, and I terrible sorry.
Before summer I sent an e-mail to the president of the National Office of Cultural Heritage, but I didn't get any answer for weeks. After two weeks I called the secretary about my e-mail, and I got to know that the president has resigned by 1st of July, and she didn't want to sign a new contract in her last weeks (but she left a note about her support on it). The new president was appointed in July, but in his first weeks he didn't want to deal with our contract. As soon as I arrived back from the US (Wikimania) I sent an e-mail to the new president about our co-operation, but I didn't get any answer for many days. When I called the secretary I got to know that the team prepared our contract last year was on holiday, after that the president went to holiday until 21 of August. After this day, I called the secretary and legal department daily, and on 27 of August there was a meeting where they discussed about our contract, but the president didn't decide about it. Then I called them every day, but I got a call yesterday, that the president is very busy and hasn't got time for this co-operation now. This is Hungary in 2012...
I wish you a big success and an extremely good competition for WLM 2012, I will follow it during the next weeks.
Best regards, Tamás [[User:Samat]]
wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org