Dear all, a quick question. I wonder if it is possible to upload a time-lapse video for the contest, made with different static pictures at different hours, from the same position or even different positions.
It is not properly a video nor a static picture, so I ask you if it is absolutely off track or can be suitable for WLM.
This is the first video I think about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecoltex/6294794741/ the second one would probably have different position.
Thanks!
Aubrey
Hi Andrea,
that is primarily a question for the local jury. In 2011 there was a special category for video (without much success), this year there isn't.
Technically, we advertise ourselves as a 'photo contest' so I think internationally it would be unlikely for a video to win, but nationally I wouldn't want to impose anything. So far we have never seen situations where videos of sufficient quality to make a chance for a prize were submitted (to the best of my knowledge)
Lodewijk
2013/9/13 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com
Dear all, a quick question. I wonder if it is possible to upload a time-lapse video for the contest, made with different static pictures at different hours, from the same position or even different positions.
It is not properly a video nor a static picture, so I ask you if it is absolutely off track or can be suitable for WLM.
This is the first video I think about: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ecoltex/6294794741/ the second one would probably have different position.
Thanks!
Aubrey
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi guys,
In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below:
This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]] https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]].
If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :)
Vacio
Good tool !!!!
Is it possible to enable in en wikipedia ?
Indian monuments are poorly located
-- WLM India team On 14 Sep 2013 03:57, "Vacio" vacio@riseup.net wrote:
Hi guys,
In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below:
This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]]https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]].
If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :)
Vacio
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi, that's a great idea. In Italy we have kinda the same problem, but we are currently discussing about the "legality" of taking coordinates from Google Maps. We have several members which are from Open Street Maps and they say that is is *illegal* (IANAL, so don't discuss with me :-).
Maybe if your tool could take the coordinates from OSM we could solve every problem.
Aubrey
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:28 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@wikimedia.inwrote:
Good tool !!!!
Is it possible to enable in en wikipedia ?
Indian monuments are poorly located
-- WLM India team On 14 Sep 2013 03:57, "Vacio" vacio@riseup.net wrote:
Hi guys,
In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below:
This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]]https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]].
If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :)
Vacio
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
That is a really cool tool!!! Thanks a lot!
*Osmar Valdebenito G.* Director Ejecutivo A. C. Wikimedia Argentina
2013/9/14 Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com
Hi, that's a great idea. In Italy we have kinda the same problem, but we are currently discussing about the "legality" of taking coordinates from Google Maps. We have several members which are from Open Street Maps and they say that is is *illegal* (IANAL, so don't discuss with me :-).
Maybe if your tool could take the coordinates from OSM we could solve every problem.
Aubrey
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:28 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@wikimedia.inwrote:
Good tool !!!!
Is it possible to enable in en wikipedia ?
Indian monuments are poorly located
-- WLM India team On 14 Sep 2013 03:57, "Vacio" vacio@riseup.net wrote:
Hi guys,
In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below:
This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]]https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]].
If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :)
Vacio
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
OSM has traditionally been very firm that taking coordinates directly from Google Maps is not valid for their license, but I'm not sure how well their license maps to ours in this case. A coordinate is basically the only piece of information they need, so they'd be copying all the information, whereas for us it's a much smaller detail in an overall work, so it's more like checking a single entry in a reference book.
I think we're okay :-)
(Besides, in most cases we'd need the satellite view to be sure if the building isn't specifically mapped already...)
A.
On 14 September 2013 17:08, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, that's a great idea. In Italy we have kinda the same problem, but we are currently discussing about the "legality" of taking coordinates from Google Maps. We have several members which are from Open Street Maps and they say that is is *illegal* (IANAL, so don't discuss with me :-).
Maybe if your tool could take the coordinates from OSM we could solve every problem.
Aubrey
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:28 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@wikimedia.inwrote:
Good tool !!!!
Is it possible to enable in en wikipedia ?
Indian monuments are poorly located
-- WLM India team On 14 Sep 2013 03:57, "Vacio" vacio@riseup.net wrote:
Hi guys,
In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below:
This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]]https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]].
If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :)
Vacio
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Even if Google maps would be okay, why can we not use OSM as the underlying map?
I would rather see the tool rebuilt upon something in our spirit if it is technically possible rather than us lazily accepting a non-free tool.
*Med vänliga hälsningar, Jan Ainali*
Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige http://se.wikimedia.org/wiki/Huvudsida 0729 - 67 29 48
2013/9/14 Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
OSM has traditionally been very firm that taking coordinates directly from Google Maps is not valid for their license, but I'm not sure how well their license maps to ours in this case. A coordinate is basically the only piece of information they need, so they'd be copying all the information, whereas for us it's a much smaller detail in an overall work, so it's more like checking a single entry in a reference book.
I think we're okay :-)
(Besides, in most cases we'd need the satellite view to be sure if the building isn't specifically mapped already...)
A.
On 14 September 2013 17:08, Andrea Zanni zanni.andrea84@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, that's a great idea. In Italy we have kinda the same problem, but we are currently discussing about the "legality" of taking coordinates from Google Maps. We have several members which are from Open Street Maps and they say that is is *illegal* (IANAL, so don't discuss with me :-).
Maybe if your tool could take the coordinates from OSM we could solve every problem.
Aubrey
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 5:28 AM, Naveen Francis naveenpf@wikimedia.inwrote:
Good tool !!!!
Is it possible to enable in en wikipedia ?
Indian monuments are poorly located
-- WLM India team On 14 Sep 2013 03:57, "Vacio" vacio@riseup.net wrote:
Hi guys,
In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below:
This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]]https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]].
If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :)
Vacio
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
--
- Andrew Gray andrew.gray@dunelm.org.uk
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Hi,
tl;dr: That tool needs to be disabled immediately. It may be possible to "fix" it to give very clear (and accurate!) warnings about the impending sharing of their data before the sharing takes place but IMHO making sure the wording clear and accurate will take too long (i.e. more than 5 mins) and we should first disable the tool completely while/if that wording is developed.
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 6:53 PM, Jan Ainali jan.ainali@wikimedia.se wrote:
Even if Google maps would be okay, why can we not use OSM as the underlying map?
I would rather see the tool rebuilt upon something in our spirit if it is technically possible rather than us lazily accepting a non-free tool.
Well regardless, it seems very, very likely that this is not compliant with the WMF privacy policy. Maybe a case could be made that all use of google maps on the projects would violate privacy policy but this case is worse than that (originally based on a cursory reading of the source code but now I've also tested it first hand; still limited because I don't understand hy (or even its alphabet)):
There are links created with the text "Ավելացնել կոորդինատ" (google translate makes me think that means approximately "add [a] coordinate(s)") and clicking that will load the google JS. There appears to be no warning to the user that their data will be shared with google when they click that link and I believe this is a clear violation of the WMF privacy policy as currently implemented. see [0] for links I found where you can try this yourself.
I'll let legal and others comment on the more general case of "can google maps be used at all" (even if there is prior warning to the user). And I agree with the policy (non-legal) position (which seems to be the point of Jan's message) of heavily favoring FLOSS where we can control the whole stack instead the non-free (e.g. Google Maps).
I'm also not addressing the licensing issues beyond to say that 1) it does need to be carefully evaluated by knowledgeable people (i.e. that have researched this before today) from OSM, Wikidata (Katie?), and maybe legal. (Luis?) and 2) "usable on Wikipedia" is IMHO not always the right standard for us to use. There are some cases where we may want to be able to collaborate with other projects like OSM or Wikidata (CC0) and so we have to coordinate with them to see if our actions will complicate or disrupt collaboration.
-Jeremy
[0] Took a bit of digging but I was able to dig up an example to try first hand. (why didn't you link to one in your initial post??)
https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D4%BC%D5%82%D5%80_%D5%BA%D5%A1%D5%BF%D5%B4%D5...
links to
https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D4%B1%D5%BC%D5%A1%D5%BB%D5%A1%D5%B1%D5%B8%D6%...
which in turn has links with the text "Ավելացնել կոորդինատ"
On 14/09/13 22:14, Jeremy Baron wrote:
Hi,
tl;dr: That tool needs to be disabled immediately. It may be possible to "fix" it to give very clear (and accurate!) warnings about the impending sharing of their data before the sharing takes place (...)
There are links created with the text "Ավելացնել կոորդինատ" (google translate makes me think that means approximately "add [a] coordinate(s)") and clicking that will load the google JS. There appears to be no warning to the user that their data will be shared with google when they click that link and I believe this is a clear violation of the WMF privacy policy as currently implemented. see [0] for links I found where you can try this yourself.
I strongly agree. It should be disabled ASAP. At least, it's not automatic on page view.
IMHO making sure the wording clear and accurate will take too long (i.e. more than 5 mins) and we should first disable the tool completely while/if that wording is developed.
What about «Do you want to load a Google map here? This will allow Google to get a bunch of data from you, and will effectively surrend your user account to their goodwill» ?
On the first mail I thought they had implemented it as a *user* script (each one is free to unsecure their own privacy and account if they really wish).
== Licensing issue == If we can use Google Maps to get object coordinates into the articles is another tricky question (and hard to fix after done). I will wait for Luis opinion, but we should be careful.
On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:52 AM, Platonides platonides@gmail.com wrote:
== Licensing issue == If we can use Google Maps to get object coordinates into the articles is another tricky question (and hard to fix after done). I will wait for Luis opinion, but we should be careful.
I am totally not qualified to answer so everything I say below could be wrong :)
I think it's *not* okay to get the coordinates from OpenStreetMap. OpenStreetMap is licensed under the Open Database License (ODbL) which protected database rights. I don't think ODbL and CC-BY-SA 3.0 are compatible.
Database rights are recognized in Europe (where OSM is hosted) but not in the US (where Wikimedia projects are hosted). It is important to note that database rights != copyright.
From Wikimedia perspective, we are generally only concerned with copyright
and believe that facts like coordinates are not copyrightable. Hence, using Google Maps as a source for coordinates often regarded as okay.
Whether or not one cares about database rights, I think it's not a good idea to violate OSM's license by using OSM as a source for coordinates.
The question about using Google Maps as a source could be argued either way, in my opinion.
Cheers, Katie
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Hi,
On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com wrote:
tl;dr: That tool needs to be disabled immediately. It may be possible to "fix" it to give very clear (and accurate!) warnings about the impending sharing of their data before the sharing takes place but IMHO making sure the wording clear and accurate will take too long (i.e. more than 5 mins) and we should first disable the tool completely while/if that wording is developed.
I went looking for people to disable it on IRC this evening (only waited that long because I was AFK a lot recently) and the person that actually looked into it (happened to be a global sysop) so far was not comfortable doing this because there are "lots of local admins there". I'm not sure if there's a policy on whether or not to wait for locals when reverting a privacy policy violation (if you would have waited for less urgent changes) but just in case I commented in a few local places anyway.
* https://hy.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_%D6%84%D5%B6%D5%B6%D5%A... * https://hy.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D5%84%D5%A1%D5%BD%D5%B6%D5%A1%D5...
btw, another issue to address is the footer's "Privacy policy" link on that site leads to a local redlink.
I guess we'll get legal to do this themselves when they get in tomorrow morning if no one else does before then.
-Jeremy
Jeremy Baron, 16/09/2013 05:55:
I went looking for people to disable it on IRC this evening (only waited that long because I was AFK a lot recently) and the person that actually looked into it (happened to be a global sysop) so far was not comfortable doing this because there are "lots of local admins there".
Yes because that's a restriction for GS. Steward or global editinterface are what you need.
I'm not sure if there's a policy on whether or not to wait for locals when reverting a privacy policy violation (if you would have waited for less urgent changes) but just in case I commented in a few local places anyway.
With the current policy there is no real need to wait but asking/notifying locally first is the right thing to do. :)
btw, another issue to address is the footer's "Privacy policy" link on that site leads to a local redlink.
I suggest to file a bug for this. [[MediaWiki:Privacypage]] needs to be overwritten by the WikimediaMessages extension and/or all local messages cleaned up.
Nemo
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
With the current policy there is no real need to wait but asking/notifying locally first is the right thing to do. :)
Well I had mailed the OP on this thread about it. He seemed to claim in that original message to be related to the script ("let us know") so I thought that might be sufficient warning.
-Jeremy
Hi,
Yes & I am a local sysop. I will deactivate the tool for now to understand the peoblem and fix it.
Vacio
Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com wrote:
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
With the current policy there is no real need to wait but
asking/notifying
locally first is the right thing to do. :)
Well I had mailed the OP on this thread about it. He seemed to claim in that original message to be related to the script ("let us know") so I thought that might be sufficient warning.
-Jeremy
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
in general: yes, these things are local concerns, that should (or should not) be taken up by the local community. It is good that you make them aware of a problem (or at least something you perceive as such), but it is up to them to tackle it or not (even if you don't like that). Even stewards will be very very reluctant to go against local decisions - only an office action could probably really enforce anything. I know this often sounds very strange to enwiki users :)
Lodewijk
2013/9/16 Jeremy Baron jeremy@tuxmachine.com
On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
With the current policy there is no real need to wait but
asking/notifying
locally first is the right thing to do. :)
Well I had mailed the OP on this thread about it. He seemed to claim in that original message to be related to the script ("let us know") so I thought that might be sufficient warning.
-Jeremy
Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
Maarten Dammers, 16/09/2013 10:26:
Op 16-9-2013 10:17, Lodewijk schreef:
I know this often sounds very strange to enwiki users :)
English Wikipedia users sometimes have the tendency to be quite paternalistic towards other wiki's. That's not appreciated at all.
This is true but privacy violations are something stewards intervene routinely on.
Nemo
@Naveen, yes but you have to have administrative privileges in local Wikiproject. First, you need to make a JavaScript page with the title /MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js/ copying the source code of this page https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js (there are things that need to be translated from Armenian... I can help you with this Monday..)
Then, you add the following script to the /MediaWiki:Common.js/ of your Wikiproject:
///Script allowing to add coordinates to list of monuments for WLM// //if (mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber') === 0 && mw.config.get('wgPageName').search(/TITLEATTRIBUTE) > 0) // //{// //mw.loader.load('//hy.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript'); // //}/
"TITLEATTRIBUTE" is a phrase in the title of the articles where the tool should be activated (without it the script would run on any article..). For instance, if you replace "TITLEATTRIBUTE" with "List of heritage in", the tool will only work in articles where the title contains the phrase "List of heritage in...".
You also need to replace "hy" with your local Wikipedia language code. Good luck (-:
@Aubrey, I would definitely prefer OSM over Google Maps, but in most cases you really need satellite images to correctly identify the location of a monument..
Vacio
On 09/14/13 07:28 , Naveen Francis wrote:
Good tool !!!!
Is it possible to enable in en wikipedia ?
Indian monuments are poorly located
-- WLM India team
On 14 Sep 2013 03:57, "Vacio" <vacio@riseup.net mailto:vacio@riseup.net> wrote:
Hi guys, In Armenian Wikipedia, we have now a tool which allows users to add coordinates of a monument using Google-maps in a pop-up window. See example below: This might be useful if a lot of coordinates are missing from your lists (like in our case). The JavaScript can be found here: [[:hy:MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js]] <https://hy.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:WLMcoord.js>). It was developed by [[u:HrantKhachatrian]]. If you want to integrate the tool to your local Wikipedia and/or have any questions, let us know :) Vacio _______________________________________________ Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org <mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org
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