Hi all,
on the half way of the contest, the central notice banners still speaks as:
*Wiki Loves Monuments: Photograph a monument, help Wikipedia and win!*
*
*
I'm sure many must feel it boring with the same same banner, and some new
interactive banners might add some spice to the contest. The original
banner live right now should be also made available when refreshed. I
remember Tomasz W. Kozłowski was collecting few ideas weeks before.
Thanks!
*
*
*
*
--
Thanks and regards,
(User:Karthikndr <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Karthikndr>)
*Karthik Nadar.*
(Ph: 91-9773608862)
I'll suggest that we won't effect much of anything this year with this
conversation, so let's leave it for after the contest is over. I'll
ask everybody to keep a journal on their jury procedures this year so
we can improve them next year.
A couple of issues with Plotonides comments first:
Nobody is gaming the system by self-nominating - that was built in as
a compromise in the beginning. I'd take it out next year.
The "positive version" of Kaldari's tool would output the file names
of favorite pix to a special sandbox page for further processing. The
only problems that I have with Nuno's tool is that I don't know how to
output data, or how to scale it up for general use. That's because
I'm not a coder, not because of any fault in the software.
Anonymity in the screening process is probably necessary. Without some
anonymity things might get very tricky and emotional. I'll readily
admit that I've made some mistakes in screening - if you go through
1,000s of pix fairly quickly how could there not be mistakes? and I
think most people will understand this. Except when somebody puts
forth his special "baby" to the public ...
I'll admit to 2 types of mistakes - Type I (the most important)
removing pix that shouldn't have been removed at this stage. I'll
admit to a 1% error rate here, and if you look at the numbers - the
implications are truly horrendous. Type II errors - leaving in pix
that shouldn't have been left in - I'm not really very concerned about
. I'll admit to a 10% error rate here.
If somebody were to complain about his baby being removed when it
shouldn't have been, and then compares it to some Type II errors - if
I were publicly identified, all I could do is give the seemingly lame
excuse "everybody makes mistakes" But of course everybody does.
I think with "crowd sourcing" or just crowd voting, we have the chance
to make this contest something very, very special. Everything that's
put in front of the final jury may not be perfect, but at the very
least, it could be "crowd pleasing."
A voting system for masses of photos - I've come to believe - is a
very hard technical project. Perhaps, if we can define exactly what
we want, we could get the Foundation to work on this for us before
next year.
I'll suggest a 3 stage general process.
1. Review for obvious technical problems (probably 2 strikes and
you're out, rather than 1)
2. Crowd voting to get down to a limited number of crowd pleasing photos, and
3. A final round of judging by highly qualified judges. After all
photography is an art, and experts must play a role.
Hope this helps (for next year)
Pete
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 00:25:14 +0200
From: Platonides <platonides(a)gmail.com>
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
<wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] jury tools
Message-ID: <5053AECA.5090809(a)gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 13/09/12 05:05, Peter Ekman wrote:
> Kaldari came up with a tool for WLM-US which works quite well IMHO as
> a part of the jury process, but is not the whole answer.(...)
>
> The logic is that you can include a photo for further consideration by
> clicking "Nominate", or you can eliminate it from further
> consideration by clicking "Decline for nomination" and when you can't
> decide click "can't decide." It works by manipulating categories on
> the photo's file "Category:WLM-US 2012 unreviewed" to start off, then
> "reviewed" and/or "nominated" We're aiming to eliminate 90% at this
> point - keeping up as the photos come in. But in reality we're
> keeping 14%.
> I think one of the quirks is when folks manually change categories -
> it can just stay in the unreviewed category forever. The fix here is
> just manually changing the categories to the correct state.
>
> It's a tough system (but quick) "one strike and you're out." But it
> is needed if you have several thousand photos to go through and want
> to get down to a few hundred in a reasonable time so that you can
> properly consider the best ones.
One drawback of this is accountability. There's no trace of who voted a
picture through the app (categories are changed by the bot).
Another problem is that authors are adding themselves the categories
nominating the images they just uploaded:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Comac_Church.jpg&diff=…https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3ADramatic_Obelisk.jpg…https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Protestant_Children%27…https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Bellows_House_Missoula…
(these are all different users tricking the system, random images
provided by the tool)
> I'd love it if there could be a positive version of this - say click
> keep and the bot places the file name in your sandbox - but the
> problem there would be you don't eliminate anything and the possible
> selection just keeps on growing.
You mean something like Nuno tool?
Greetings WLM Members,
Version 1.2.3 of the WLM Android App is on Google
Play<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia.wlm>and
here <http://dumps.wikimedia.org/android/WLM-v1.2.3.apk>. We have made some
improvements and in particular, there is an important enhancement related
to camera photos.
Yes, camera photos. Please let me explain.
The app is a great way to find monuments, but many participants in WLM use
cameras to take the photos they will submit to the contest.
It is great to submit mobile photos to the contest as well, but cameras
generally offer better quality and control. So why not upload mobile photos
as placeholders, to make camera submissions easier?
The following blog post, which will be published tomorrow, explains how
this works.
Using the Wiki Loves Monuments App as a travel
log<http://blog.wikimedia.org/?p=17406>
Posted by Philip Chang <http://blog.wikimedia.org/author/pchang/> on
September 10th, 2012
The Wiki Loves Monuments Android
App<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia.wlm>
is
a great way to take photos and upload them to Wikimedia Commons during the
world’s largest photo
contest<http://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/08/29/kicking-off-wiki-loves-monuments-2012/>
throughout
September. But what if you are shooting with a camera and don’t see
yourself taking too many photos with your mobile phone? You can now use the
app as a convenient travel log and make it much easier to organize your
photos when processing and uploading them at home.
Here’s how you use the app as a travel log. As you walk around finding
monuments nearby to shoot with your camera, use the app on your phone to
find the monuments and take a picture of them to upload, either on the road
or when you get home. Back on your computer, your uploaded mobile photos
will be a convenient record of all the monuments you visited, sitting on
Commons under “My uploads.”
As an added bonus, every mobile upload you add to Commons will include a
link to the Special Upload Wizard that automatically allows you to upload
and categorize more photos of that monument based on its campaign and
reference number. This is similar to clicking the “upload photo” button on
the monument lists in Wikipedia, but it is right there in your travel log.
<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_more_photos.png>
A screenshot of the new travel log feature associated with WLM app photos
uploaded to Commons.
To see your travel log and use this feature, you must login at
commons.wikimedia.org <http://blog.wikimedia.org/commons.wikimedia.org> and
click on “My uploads” at the top. Click on the name of any uploaded photo
and the file page of that photo will open. Scroll down and below the
description you will see the link, “Upload more photos of this monument.”
The travel log can help you in two ways:
1. you will see a sequential list of the monuments you visited, which
helps in identifying the monuments taken on your camera
2. you can submit the photos from your camera for each monument directly
from the travel log
The latest app, version 1.2.3, has been published in the Google
Play<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=org.wikipedia.wlm>
store
and that version has this new feature. Please update the app if you
downloaded it before and do not have auto-updates turned on. If you have
good ideas about photo uploads in general, or improvements next year, feel
free to post feedback<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Monuments_mobile_application/Feedb…>
or
send email <mobile-feedback-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org>.
You may also download the app
here<http://dumps.wikimedia.org/android/WLM-v1.2.3.apk>,
or on the F-Droid
market<http://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdfilter=wiki%20loves%20monuments&fdi…>
.
We appreciate your support. Happy uploading!
*Phil Chang, Product Manager, Mobile*
- Copyright notes: "Upload more
photos"<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_more_photos.png>
by Philinje <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Philinje>,
under CC-BY-SA
3.0 Unported <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode>,
from Wikimedia Commons
--
Phil Inje Chang
Product Manager, Mobile
Wikimedia Foundation
415-812-0854 m
415-882-7982 x 6810
I'm having a bit of trouble with a really weird (troll?) participant. He
has uploaded some valid photos to the contest, but also lots of really
weird and invalid stuff (for example, a photograph of a dead rat found in a
park [the park is a monument, so let's take some close-up details of it!]).
His last gift was this golden collection:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:N33.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:N35.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:N39.jpg
(Try changing the two-digits number of the filename with other numbers to
see even more columns :D [or just check this out:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Ivan_Tunja;
look for the "NXX.jpg" filenames])
Apparently, this time he is moving around the inside of an area surrounded
by some kind of fence and taking photos to each column the fence has. I
can't even know if the columns are part of a valid monument because I
cannot see what is behind the photographer (inside the fence); and even if
they are, I think this is just irrational and not useful at all!
What do you think I should do? Nothing? Disqualify the images? Let them
stay until the end of september and then filter them? I don't feel
comfortable knowing that about 10% of the contest valid images are photos
of almost equal columns :S ("Hey, check out Colombia cultural heritage!
Yep, columns! [And dead rats!]"). Also, I'm getting tired of following this
guy's contribution to filter the non-useful, even offensive pictures (I
won't allow the rat image to reach the judges!). I think that, while the
rules don't state that uploading dozens of almost equal photos is invalid,
this guy is clearly stretching the spirit of the competition.
Any advice of how to deal with this kind of behaviour will be really
appreciated. If you think that I'm wrong and I should let him be happy and
participate with his images, tell me so; It will also be appreciated.
Racso
If I count correctly, Spain just became the first country to pass 1000
files submitted for WLM2012. As I recollect, on the first day of 2011 no
country submitted more than 1000 files.
Cheers
Yaroslav
Dear WLM Members,
As of yesterday, a banner promoting the WLM Android App has appeared on all
pages of the WIkipedia mobile site and the sister projects, on Android
devices only. This banner can be closed easily by the user, and won't
appear again until the user clears the data of his/her browser.
To summarize, the banner:
- appears on the mobile site only
- appears on Android devices only
- appears on all pages in all languages
- can be closed easily and persistently
- is being localized
- links to the app on Google Play
We are tracking downloads of the app to see what impact this makes.
To all of you who considered putting the banner on your WIkipedia main
page, this removes the need for making the manual change. I believe there
were no cases where this was actually done, but if it was, the banner would
appear twice on the main page, so the manual version can be removed.
Thank you for your support.
Phil
--
Phil Inje Chang
Product Manager, Mobile
Wikimedia Foundation
415-812-0854 m
415-882-7982 x 6810
Dear all,
Great news from Italy! After over one year of talks between Wikimedia
Italia and MiBAC, the Italian Ministry of Cultural and Artistic Heritage
(MiBAC is a quasi-acronym from its official Italian denomination "Ministero
per i Beni e le Attività Culturali"), we have managed to sign an agreement
which will allow us to participate to Wiki Loves Monuments in a much
broader way that we could before. MiBAC explicitly states in the agreement
that *«the Ministry considers particularly useful, in order to promote
awareness of such goods [the ones managed by the Ministry - note that this
is different from "owned by the Ministry", see below], the production of
specific items about them on wikipedia.org, in all its languages, and the
publication of images on Wikimedia Commons, at the site
http://commons.wikimedia.org.»
<http://commons.wikimedia.org.xn--yba/>* Moreover,
it will explicitly ask to its local branches to give us the list of
"lesser" monuments, those which are not usually known but are nonetheless
beautiful... and poorly described in Wikipedia. Italian law however puts
some constraints unrelated to copyright issues: this means that the
pictures uploaded must bear the the template {{Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer}}[1].
The text of the disclaimer is shown below; to understand what it actually
means we put up this text, which provides a bit of context about the
history of the agreement and the Italian law.
As you know, Wiki Loves Monuments started in 2010, and went European in
2011. Wikimedia Italy wanted to participate to that edition, but we
discovered a great obstacle to the project, a law called "Codice Urbani"[2].
"Codice Urbani" is an Italian law which states, among other provisions,
that to publish pictures of "cultural goods" (meaning in theory every
cultural and artistical object/place) for commercial purposes it is
mandatory to obtain an authorization from the local branch of the Ministry
of Arts and Cultural Heritage, the "Soprintendenza"[3]. The Superintendence
can require the payment of a fee; moreover, the authorization granted is
will be for the requester only (usually a publishing company) and only for
a given publication. Personal use and use for study and research are
allowed without a request for authorization. You certainly noticed that
Codice Urbani is problematic for a smooth realization of Wiki Loves
Monuments. In fact, I can make pictures of monuments I can give up my
copyright allowing others to copy my image without requiring my explicit
permission; but the Codice Urbani says that if I want to publish those
picture a fee can be requested to me, so anyway a third party can't make
profit out of my picture without asking in advance an authorization to the
Soprintendenza. This issue is completely independent from any issue
regarding copyright: Coliseum and the Leaning Tower fall (no pun intended)
under Codice Urbani. So we were in difficulty in organizing a photocampaign
in Italy and asking people to (potentially) break the Italian law, since
the unclear points where many.
We started challenging this problems in Summer 2011: we contacted people
from the Ministry, we set up a draft of the project, we met once in Rome to
speak with high delegates. To make a long story short, we managed to obtain
the promise of receiving the lists of the monuments which could be
photographed: but then things slowed down, our contacts were moved to other
offices, and the Ministry himself (who was aware of the project) was
replaced or political reasons (unrelated to WLM, of course). Thus, we could
not participate in WLM 2011.
In December 2011 we started working out a new strategy: meanwhile, as you
can imagine, endless discussions were made in our mailing lists. We
contacted NEXA Center for Internet and Society[4a], an institution from the
University of Turin which supports and promotes Creative Commons: they are
actually the official contact for Creative Commons in Italy! We decided to
allocate some resources and hired Deborah De Angelis[4b], a lawyer
specialized in Creative Commons and cultural heritage. Deborah, who is
based in Rome, started contacting again the (renewed) Ministry of Cultural
Heritage, proposing a draft for an agreement between the Ministry and
Wikimedia Italia. Several months of discussions and bouncing of documents
followed.
In January Wikimedia Italy also hired a Project Manager for Wiki Loves
Monuments, Emma Tracanella. Emma started developing and pursuing another
tactic developed by WMI to get permission for taking pictures of monuments:
asking directly the authorization to specific municipalities and
institutions. In fact, it is the "owners" of a monument who have the right
to authorize pictures of it. It's Codice Urbani itself which gives them
these rights, indeed.
Thus, we had two strategies: one top-down, that is discussing with the
MiBac to obtain an agreement clearly stating that we could organize Wiki
Loves Monuments in Italy, and explaining which were the boundaries of the
law (the dream here would have been to change the law itself, but we would
have needed to bring the issue in Parliament, and more urged matters
pressed); the other bottom-up, that is asking the permissions to the single
institutions. Note that the bottom-up strategy meant having to deal with
8000+ different municipalities, endless cultural institutions, uncountable
churches (every parish priest has the right for is own parish, unless this
is in some special list from the Ministry). We let you imagine the
complexity of the landscape that was opening in front of us: it was a
nightmare, but at least it could give us some "free" monuments.
Emma started making calls to everyone who could give us authorization for
taking photo of monuments. We started spreading the word, calling friends
of friends for help, starting a blog (our wikilovesmonuments.it), begging
for authorization everywhere. We had a great ally in APT Services, the
Tourist office for Emilia Romagna, with which we already partnered in the
past for some Wikipedia-related projects; they organized meetings with
mayors and regional politicians. In the end, we reached different regions
and provinces, and several municipalities (here there is a list[5]). Our
list of monuments counts in hundreds, and it's still improving everyday
(here there is a map of the lists[6]). A drop in the ocean, if you think at
the enormous Italian cultural heritage: but it is all we managed to get.
This up to yesterday. Today, we had finally an answer from MiBAC, and it
was positive. The Ministry signed an agreement with Wikimedia Italia saying
that:
- the Ministry, with the aim of promoting the knowledge of the Italian
Cultural Heritage, finds useful that the monuments have an article on
Wikipedia with photographs. (yes, it is *actually* saying that).
- the Ministry will send an internal communication asking to every
Soprintendenza to send us a list of the monuments they control, along with
a permission to take photos of them. Pics of these monuments can be
released in CC-BY-SA, in the sense that the maker of the photograph can
relinquish his own rights; no fee is needed to be paid to the monuments'
owners by the photographer if he does not want to use them for commercial
purposes.
As part of the agreement, we however have to add a disclaimer to the
pictures; the one in {{Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer}}. The text of the advice is
shown below:
*This image reproduces a property belonging to the Italian cultural
heritage as entrusted to the Italian government. Such images are regulated
by Articles 106 et seq. of the Italian Code of Cultural Heritage and
Landscape under Legislative Decree No. 42, dated January 22, 2004, and its
subsequent amendments. These regulations, unrelated to copyright
regulations, establish a system for the protection Italy’s historic and
artistic heritage and its standards of dignity. Among other things, these
regulations provide for the payment of a concession fee by those who intend
to benefit economically from reproductions of property belonging to the
Italian cultural heritage. Reproduction of this image is permitted for
personal use or study. A further authorization by the Italian Ministry of
Heritage and Culture is required for reproduction for any other purpose,
and particularly for commercial use. Such commercial use includes, but is
not limited to, use in (a) any form of advertising, and (b) any company
name, logo, trademark, image, activity, or product.*
Our lawyers (which are people from Creative Commons Italy) assure us that
this license is compatible with CC-BY-SA, because the provisions of the
license, which deals only with intellectual propriety, is saved and the
limitation occurs on another, different, level. In other words, the
photographer releases the picture in CC-BY-SA, the Ministry allows to put
it on Commons waiving its own right to get a fee, but Codice Urbani keeps
staying in force, protecting the pics from automatic commercial use by
third parties. To be more explicit, please have a look the the section 5 of
the Legal Code of Creative Commons CC-BY-SA-3.0 [7], which we are quoted
below: boldface is ours.
*5. Representations, Warranties and Disclaimer**Unless otherwise mutually
agreed to by the parties in writing, licensor offers the work as-is and
makes no representations or warranties of any kind concerning the work,
express, implied, statutory or otherwise, including, without limitation,
warranties of title, merchantibility, fitness for a particular purpose,
noninfringement, or the absence of latent or other defects, accuracy, or
the presence of absence of errors, whether or not discoverable. Some
jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion of implied warranties, so such
exclusion may not apply to you*
As you may see, it's true that the author of the photo cannot vouch for the
merchantability of the images, since this is not a right of his/her; but
CC-BY-SA explicitly takes into account that case.
To the best of our knowledge, this agreement is the first one of its kind
in Italy, and sees an official recognition of the existence of Creative
Commons licenses; moreover, it is a necessary step towards new regulations
recognizing the importance of the free dissemination of information about
the cultural and artistic heritage, which cannot just be "museum stuff". We
are thrilled to see what will come out, and how Italians will answer to
this challenge. We are very proud to have obtained this.
Feel free to ask us anything you think relevant, we'll do what we can to
answer. We are also open to prepare some FAQ, if we see the need for them.
Best regards,
Cristian and Andrea
on behalf of the Wiki Loves Monuments organizing committee in Italy
References
[1] http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Italy-MiBAC-disclaimer
[2] http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codice_Urbani
[3] http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soprintendenze
[4a] http://nexa.polito.it/
[4b] http://nexa.polito.it/fellows
[5] http://www.wikilovesmonuments.it/istituzioni/
[6] http://www.wikilovesmonuments.it/monumenti/lista-monumenti/ ; also on
wiki at:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progetto:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012/Monumenti
[7] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/legalcode
The Wiki Loves Monuments competition has begun this Friday, 14th September. We chose this date as it is the beginning of a month-long holiday
period and especially as it is the beginning of the extended weekend of the Jewish new
year.
We marked the opening of the competition with three tours in areas with
high saturation of heritage sites and monuments – the agricultural village of
Mikveh Israel near Tel Aviv;
the German Colony in Haifa and the old city of Safed.
These three tours are the first of 25 tours around the country (and four
more tours are in planning stages) to which 310 people have registered so far.
The tours are the fruit of joint collaboration with the Council for
Preservation of Heritage Sites and are guided by expert guides provided by the
Council.
Images of the tour to Mikveh Israel:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012_in_Isr…
The first Wiki Loves Monuments event in Israel took place last Friday
when a photography workshop was held by the Galitz school of photography in
which tips were given for taking quality pictures focusing on composition and
lighting of images. An additional workshop is scheduled for next Friday. A
total of 90 people have registered for both workshops.
Images of the first workshop:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012_in_Isr…
We also attended the Israeli Photography Conference – an annual
conference held at the Tel Aviv Basketball Stadium – attended by about 4000
amateur and professional photographers (this year the key note speaker was Spencer
Tunick). We operated an information booth regarding the competition and more
than 500 photographers visited our booth, viewed the winning pictures from last
year's competition, and took our information leaflet and a complimentary
Wikipedia pen. This booth had very high visibility and achieved outreach to
specific, relevant, target audience. Images of the booth:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2012_in_Isr…
We hope that the successful opening events are the beginning of a
fruitful and successful competition and wish you all a happy New Year.
Deror
Kaldari came up with a tool for WLM-US which works quite well IMHO as
a part of the jury process, but is not the whole answer.
I'm not a coder, so I can't fully explain it or adapt it for your
uses, so technical questions and requests should go to Kaldari. I'm
also not volunteering him for anything, it's very possible that he may
not have the time, but maybe somebody else could adapt it.
But feel free to try it - in a real working situation - at
http://toolserver.org/~kaldari/reviewer/review.php for US pictures
I'll just say, when in doubt, hit "can't decide". It also has a quirk
or two - in which case just hit the reload button on your browser or
quit with no harm done.
The logic is that you can include a photo for further consideration by
clicking "Nominate", or you can eliminate it from further
consideration by clicking "Decline for nomination" and when you can't
decide click "can't decide." It works by manipulating categories on
the photo's file "Category:WLM-US 2012 unreviewed" to start off, then
"reviewed" and/or "nominated" We're aiming to eliminate 90% at this
point - keeping up as the photos come in. But in reality we're
keeping 14%.
I think one of the quirks is when folks manually change categories -
it can just stay in the unreviewed category forever. The fix here is
just manually changing the categories to the correct state.
It's a tough system (but quick) "one strike and you're out." But it
is needed if you have several thousand photos to go through and want
to get down to a few hundred in a reasonable time so that you can
properly consider the best ones.
I'd love it if there could be a positive version of this - say click
keep and the bot places the file name in your sandbox - but the
problem there would be you don't eliminate anything and the possible
selection just keeps on growing.
The ultimate answer would be a voting system something like POTY - but
I have my doubts that this can be done with 1,000s of photos coming in
one end and hundreds coming out the other. The mathematics of proper
discrimination would require at least 5 or so votes (up or down) per
photo so lots of datahandling would be involved.
So, in short, people judging along multiple dimensions at the same
time and taking time with each photo are going to be required at some
point. The above only helps to winnow in a systematic way, so that
the people can get involved with a reasonable number of photos to deal
with.
I'd love to hear how other folks handle this problem or anybody who
has a better tool.
Pete Ekman
User:Smallbones
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:05:03 -0200
From: Itzik Edri <itzik(a)infra.co.il>
To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition
<wikilovesmonuments(a)lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wiki Loves Monuments] jury process - round 2
Message-ID:
<CAOi8FzX-KWrv+JUr51LdoxAyhiA7JDXcDep0vH1u=W3zj35riQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
Correct me if I missed something, but I didn't really saw yet a tool which
the chapters can use for the jury process. I saw a link to WMPT tool on the
last thread that I found, but didn't understand at the end of him, if
he available to uses by others, how hard is to install him and etc...
Is there any new ideas or tools that we may use (the chapters who don't
have technical guys to handle things :))
Itzik
