Ive been told that they are placing the same requirements on the course coordinator flag as they do on all others.. a certain amount of online history with es.wiki. I have made the arguments that you suggest Samir and User:Jmvkrecords has said he will discuss it with other admins (bibliotecarios), but he has stated that the community has the final say. Question: why is this tool separated under the various language projects? First, this limits the monitoring/documenting to a single language (if students do projects in en.wiki and es.wiki, there needs to be two extensions) and who needs the tool is very different from the others. Why dont we have one course extension that can scrape the data from whatever project students are working on? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 18:41:10 +0200 From: selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] denied access to course extension Hi Leigh, To help with your question may I ask you first if there is a local policy for the use of the education extension user rights on the Spanish Wikipedia? If there is a policy that supports the admin's reply, then unfortunately there will be nothing to do with that. If the answer is no, then you can reapply on the same page or separately on other adimns talk pages relying on many factors: 1. The ed extension user rights help only with ed program pages and don't give any special rights on the article name space. 2. The use of the ed extension is to help the coordinators and volunteers of the program even if they don't have any edits on Wikipedia. 3. On Wikipedia in other languages, admins don't, usually, apply such requirements on ed user rights. (Please note that the policies of each wiki community may vary from another and they are the only authority on their policies and its application) I hope this helps with your issue. Cheers, Samir Elsharbaty Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On 15 Dec 2014 19:46, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <nemowiki(a)gmail.com> wrote: Leigh Thelmadatter, 13/12/2014 03:34: Basically the answer is no. They have to have editing experience and show that they at least have the ability to speak Spanish and show they can be good course coordinators. Did you try asking some more admins (on their talk page) to chime in? Often such request pages are only watched by a small "specialised" group. Nemo _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Thanks for your input Alhen! I understand the biblio's point of view in that teachers should have have a minimum amount of wiki experience before assigning stuff to their students. I have been pushing this to my department and above. For this reason we have been holding lots of training sessions since last summer and just had two last week with the participation 15 or so. This gives teachers a good start in of what Wikipedia is about, but it does not generate a large number of teacher edits right away. One thing we have changed is that teachers must upload an article to complete training, generally a translation. You can see this in the course up right now in the tool https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Program:Tec_de_Monterrey,_Campus_Ci… On the other hand, I finally got admin interested in Wiki enough to back our program (called Wiki Learning), an incredibly important step as it makes teachers take the idea more seriously. So Im trying to balance es.wiki's needs along with the my school's (and the Ed Program's) desire to expand working with Wikipedia among students. While teachers will not be anywhere near as experienced as I am (or as my fellow project leaders Paolaricaurte and Lourdes Epstein), they do understand the very basics and have the support of experienced students working with Wiki in other capacities (servicio social, becarios, etc) to as in a capacity similar to Campus Ambassadors. As project leader for Wiki Learning, I am responsible for monitoring the teachers, as well as training people to eventually take over that capacity at campuses outside my own. If the biblios decide not to grant the tool, I simply means that I will be creating the classes and depending on what teachers decide (es.wiki or Commons) that can be 40 or more classes. In some ways, it is easier. I can create the classes using systematic names but it will be hell for me for the first week or so. (We never 100% know which classes we have until the first week of the semester, go figure.) Well not quite me alone as Jmvkrecords has already indicated that he will give it to Paolaricaurte. These are major growing pains and granted, a GOOD (as well as unexpected) problem to have. Leigh From: alhen.wiki(a)gmail.com Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 14:22:40 -0400 To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] denied access to course extension I participated on such discussion about whether to give course coordinator flag to the teachers. The general idea is that they will need someone monitoring their work. Eswiki, as many others I guess, has a long history of students and teachers using the wiki without reading the policies. That said, I understand why they want to take the process as slow as possible. Please, don't take it personal. I recommend you get a biblio(sysop) involved so he can back you up and help you control the whole projecta and edits. I see the main problem here is that many users will come to edit on es.wiki with little or no experience, and the course coordinator will have the same experience of those who are participating for the first time. Feel free to correct me if I am missing anything. Alhen @alhen_ alhen at most places. Coordinator at Wikimedia Bolivia https://www.fb.com/wikimediabolivia Thrive, live, and bloom. On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Ive been told that they are placing the same requirements on the course coordinator flag as they do on all others.. a certain amount of online history with es.wiki. I have made the arguments that you suggest Samir and User:Jmvkrecords has said he will discuss it with other admins (bibliotecarios), but he has stated that the community has the final say. Question: why is this tool separated under the various language projects? First, this limits the monitoring/documenting to a single language (if students do projects in en.wiki and es.wiki, there needs to be two extensions) and who needs the tool is very different from the others. Why dont we have one course extension that can scrape the data from whatever project students are working on? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 18:41:10 +0200 From: selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] denied access to course extension Hi Leigh, To help with your question may I ask you first if there is a local policy for the use of the education extension user rights on the Spanish Wikipedia? If there is a policy that supports the admin's reply, then unfortunately there will be nothing to do with that. If the answer is no, then you can reapply on the same page or separately on other adimns talk pages relying on many factors: 1. The ed extension user rights help only with ed program pages and don't give any special rights on the article name space. 2. The use of the ed extension is to help the coordinators and volunteers of the program even if they don't have any edits on Wikipedia. 3. On Wikipedia in other languages, admins don't, usually, apply such requirements on ed user rights. (Please note that the policies of each wiki community may vary from another and they are the only authority on their policies and its application) I hope this helps with your issue. Cheers, Samir Elsharbaty Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On 15 Dec 2014 19:46, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <nemowiki(a)gmail.com> wrote: Leigh Thelmadatter, 13/12/2014 03:34: Basically the answer is no. They have to have editing experience and show that they at least have the ability to speak Spanish and show they can be good course coordinators. Did you try asking some more admins (on their talk page) to chime in? Often such request pages are only watched by a small "specialised" group. Nemo _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education

Thanks for checking in and taking an interest Toni. Alhen's response was useful and he has a point. As long as the extension is fragmented among the different individual projects, those projects have the final say in who gets access to the tool and who does not. By the way, there is no equivalent for Commons. We have been using categories and checking contributions to track student work (there are always some who forget categories), but it is more time consuming than using the extension. Over the longer term, we may want to think about changing how the tool is hosted and accessed as it is not like the other tools which have a direct effect on content in individual projects. However, I realize that would probably mean a significant engineering effort, and the Edinburgh meeting made clear the extension was not a priority. Maybe a wish list for the extension is something to discuss on outreach? What I dont know is if the extension is an very important tool outside of en.wiki. It has not seemed to be until now for es.wiki. On the plus side, I sort of have a "stick" to get teachers to fiddle with es.wiki more and get more familiarized as to how it works, just what there students will be doing and what the common questions will be. While this semester will be extremely busy for us and any help/support from the ed world would be very much appreciated, we can manage on our own if need be. Fortunately I have several servicio social students repeating with Wikipedia as they truly enjoy it and will be naturals as "campus ambassadors." Several teachers have some experience working with Wikipedia from last semester (and will be getting recognition for such from the School of Humanities). Paola now has access, and two more directors are very interested with one probably already having enough edits to get access the tool. If classes do the preliminary work before the main event/editathon in early March, we should be OK. We just need to prepare tasks for the different groups that already have experience in photo description and article translation, leaving article creation to a small group of students who show a talent for writing and working their way around the wiki with minimal help. And Happy Holidays! Leigh Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 12:06:18 -0500 From: toni.sant(a)wikimedia.org.uk To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] denied access to course extension I believe that this sort of discussion would be more useful on a wiki talk page (outreach?) rather than "locked up" in a listserv. Just my 2c, of course. :-) Happy holidays y'all! Toni --- Dr Toni Sant - Education Organiser, Wikimedia UKtoni.sant(a)wikimedia.org.uk +44 (0)7885 980 536 Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT. United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).Wikimedia UK is an independent non-profit charity with no legal control over Wikipedia nor responsibility for its contents. On 16 December 2014 at 19:24, Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Thanks for your input Alhen! I understand the biblio's point of view in that teachers should have have a minimum amount of wiki experience before assigning stuff to their students. I have been pushing this to my department and above. For this reason we have been holding lots of training sessions since last summer and just had two last week with the participation 15 or so. This gives teachers a good start in of what Wikipedia is about, but it does not generate a large number of teacher edits right away. One thing we have changed is that teachers must upload an article to complete training, generally a translation. You can see this in the course up right now in the tool https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Program:Tec_de_Monterrey,_Campus_Ci… On the other hand, I finally got admin interested in Wiki enough to back our program (called Wiki Learning), an incredibly important step as it makes teachers take the idea more seriously. So Im trying to balance es.wiki's needs along with the my school's (and the Ed Program's) desire to expand working with Wikipedia among students. While teachers will not be anywhere near as experienced as I am (or as my fellow project leaders Paolaricaurte and Lourdes Epstein), they do understand the very basics and have the support of experienced students working with Wiki in other capacities (servicio social, becarios, etc) to as in a capacity similar to Campus Ambassadors. As project leader for Wiki Learning, I am responsible for monitoring the teachers, as well as training people to eventually take over that capacity at campuses outside my own. If the biblios decide not to grant the tool, I simply means that I will be creating the classes and depending on what teachers decide (es.wiki or Commons) that can be 40 or more classes. In some ways, it is easier. I can create the classes using systematic names but it will be hell for me for the first week or so. (We never 100% know which classes we have until the first week of the semester, go figure.) Well not quite me alone as Jmvkrecords has already indicated that he will give it to Paolaricaurte. These are major growing pains and granted, a GOOD (as well as unexpected) problem to have. Leigh From: alhen.wiki(a)gmail.com Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 14:22:40 -0400 To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] denied access to course extension I participated on such discussion about whether to give course coordinator flag to the teachers. The general idea is that they will need someone monitoring their work. Eswiki, as many others I guess, has a long history of students and teachers using the wiki without reading the policies. That said, I understand why they want to take the process as slow as possible. Please, don't take it personal. I recommend you get a biblio(sysop) involved so he can back you up and help you control the whole projecta and edits. I see the main problem here is that many users will come to edit on es.wiki with little or no experience, and the course coordinator will have the same experience of those who are participating for the first time. Feel free to correct me if I am missing anything. Alhen @alhen_ alhen at most places. Coordinator at Wikimedia Bolivia https://www.fb.com/wikimediabolivia Thrive, live, and bloom. On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Leigh Thelmadatter <osamadre(a)hotmail.com> wrote: Ive been told that they are placing the same requirements on the course coordinator flag as they do on all others.. a certain amount of online history with es.wiki. I have made the arguments that you suggest Samir and User:Jmvkrecords has said he will discuss it with other admins (bibliotecarios), but he has stated that the community has the final say. Question: why is this tool separated under the various language projects? First, this limits the monitoring/documenting to a single language (if students do projects in en.wiki and es.wiki, there needs to be two extensions) and who needs the tool is very different from the others. Why dont we have one course extension that can scrape the data from whatever project students are working on? Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 18:41:10 +0200 From: selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org To: education(a)lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimedia Education] denied access to course extension Hi Leigh, To help with your question may I ask you first if there is a local policy for the use of the education extension user rights on the Spanish Wikipedia? If there is a policy that supports the admin's reply, then unfortunately there will be nothing to do with that. If the answer is no, then you can reapply on the same page or separately on other adimns talk pages relying on many factors: 1. The ed extension user rights help only with ed program pages and don't give any special rights on the article name space. 2. The use of the ed extension is to help the coordinators and volunteers of the program even if they don't have any edits on Wikipedia. 3. On Wikipedia in other languages, admins don't, usually, apply such requirements on ed user rights. (Please note that the policies of each wiki community may vary from another and they are the only authority on their policies and its application) I hope this helps with your issue. Cheers, Samir Elsharbaty Communications Intern, Wikipedia Education Program Wikimedia Foundation +2.011.200.696.77 selsharbaty(a)wikimedia.org education.wikimedia.org On 15 Dec 2014 19:46, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <nemowiki(a)gmail.com> wrote: Leigh Thelmadatter, 13/12/2014 03:34: Basically the answer is no. They have to have editing experience and show that they at least have the ability to speak Spanish and show they can be good course coordinators. Did you try asking some more admins (on their talk page) to chime in? Often such request pages are only watched by a small "specialised" group. Nemo _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education _______________________________________________ Education mailing list Education(a)lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/education