On Apr 25, 2007, at 11:00 PM, Frederick Noronha wrote:
Hi all: Please don't discuss me or the page referring to me on Wikipedia. I have no delusions of grandeur, didn't initiate the page myself (just felt the need to correct the info which was incorrect on it, after waiting awhile and seeing nothing change!), and don't claim to be of any level of notability.
When AfD'ing it, and notifying editors, I ran into your User:Talk page... looks like a cattle {{prod}} zapped it. Ow.
Instead, may I request that the page be deleted...
You can do just that on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/ Frederick_Noronha
... so that this discussion takes on less of a personal I'm-protectiing-my-interest kind of tone.
Okay. :)
What I am really concerned about is the manner in which entries -- which really deserve to be included on the Wikipedia (even if needing a rewrite and better sourcing) -- get tagged for speedy deletion.
I've had a few of those, some admins are pretty quick with the triggers, but our tiered deletion process is designed to sort out the possible problems, to a certain extent...
In particular, I refer to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios [Even links to it deleted. Reasons given: only 200+ members; not adequately sourced; non notability; etc, etc]
Those are standard reasons, with the core problem being sourcing, indicating a lack of notability and verifiability. Verifiability is the primary tool we have to keep people from inventing fictitious entities, or listing their chess club (that has 50 online members, and nothing other than their 100 blogs claiming various things), or an individual writing "THE TRUTH ABOUT MY UFO ABDUCTION" and then posting it to hundreds (or thousands) of websites.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rishab_A._Ghosh So is he non-notable for Wikipedia?
73K ghits, member of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Open_Source_Initiative (Passes WP:ORG), but it's a stub that needs more assertions of notability on why he would be, oh..... considered important, as an individual?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vikalp http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php? title=Natural_History_of_South_Asia_mailing_list&action=edit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herman_Carneiro&action=edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITeM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESLARED http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=LUGs%2C_FSUGs% 2C_GLUGs_in_India_and_Asia&action=edit http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gobala_Krishnan&action=edit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OURMedia/NUESTROSMedios
Some of the recurring themes I'm seeing so far, actually, viewed from *my* perspective, are articles about topics (and with text inside the articles about topics) that (to me) are completely *unimportant* in terms of notability.
Managing/having a mailing list is not notable, managing a website is not notable, managing a journal is not notable, nor is being a journalist, nor being a frequent F/OSS contributor, nor starting a regional, national, or international group, to *me*, and let me emphasize the next point quite heavily: "Because all of these things, right now, are done by almost every bored teenager or adult in *highly developed countries* with the slightest of inclinations to do so."
And this, I think, might be where some bias is kicking in.
Some examples: In the developing world, running your own nonprofit ISP might be a major thing, in the United States, I can count at least five personal friends who did so *as a way of passing time*. Sure, taking time away from making a living to work on F/OSS project is very significant, and notable, when one is having to cut down on their food budget to do so, but in the US, it can be "something to do" besides sitting on the couch and watching TV.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BIAS
Okay guys, I rest my case. --FN
If it's widely noticed, it will be documented, and thus pass WP:V
PS: Are you so sure? Most of the cultures of this planet are still not even documented, let alone digitised.
My older brother is a geographic anthropologist. I know that there's a major, ongoing, effort to take the information from cultures that lack written documentation and capture it. I also do know that it is a race against time. Responding directly to your point, though, if "widely" means 600 people of the culture of a hill tribe in some non- developed country, wikipedia likely will not have it, and nor will the rest of the world, unless it is published in a reliable source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RS) first.
And, in a Western-defined world, what you're saying is if you aren't digitised, you don't exist! Well... some fundamental differences in perception here.
No, I'm saying that unless the story is told to the others, it cannot be heard by the others. Digitizing makes it easier for things like testing ghits, be we also have articles that one *must* find paper copies of some prior text in order to verify the data.
:)
-Bop