And, if I can, let me try to provide concise counterarguments for what I understand to be Andrew's reasons for not creating a Cantonese Wikipedia:
1) That it's not used in formal situations (at least not in written form). Neither are languages such as Sicilian, Javanese, Sundanese, Cebuano, and many other languages which already have Wikipedias. And just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done now. If there are people willing and ready to create real encyclopaedic content in Cantonese, then how is this one a problem? 2) That all people literate in Yutyuh-Bakwahman are also literate in Mandarin (= Puntonghua-based Baihuawen). The same applies to many other languages which already have Wikipedias, and often quite large (although Mandarin isn't nessecarily the language in which all or most are literate): Catalan, Basque, Galician, Asturian, Aragonese (with Spanish) Ukrainian, Belarusian (with Russian, at least to a great degree), Sicilian, Sardinian, Friulian (with Italian), Corsican, Catalan, Basque, Breton, Occitan, Walon, Haitian Creole, Luxembourgish (with French), Sundanese, Javanese (with Indonesian), Frisian, Limburgish (with Dutch)... and the list goes on. Some might even argue that those literate in Finnish are all literate in Swedish, or even at an extreme that those literate in Dutch are all literate in English (certainly not true, but perhaps it would be in the future). And, again, just because a Wikipedia isn't "needed" doesn't mean it shouldn't be created, if there are people willing to work on it and it has at least some possible uses. 3) That it will take away contributors and potential contributors from the already-starving Chinese Wikipedia. Now, you have said that "every little bit counts", but in all likelyhood that's just what it will be: a little bit. I don't have a factual argument against this since both of our arguments on this seem to be purely conjecture, but I think it's rediculous to think that enough users would leave (or never arrive in the first place) zhwiki to cause even the tiniest noticable decrease in productivity and/or growth.
If I have missed one, please forgive me.
Mark
On 25/09/05, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
I don't see how it's interesting.
If you take a look at the vote, and exclude all non-Cantonese speakers (at least, as far as I am aware):
Support: Jasonzhuocn Bourquie Connie Eternal Jogloran Felix Wan Enochlau CantoneseWiki Xingmu Ffootballchu Seasurfer (Maybe -- Seasurfer is a Malaysian Chinese; in most of Malaysia, Chinese people can speak Cantonese, including Kuala Lumpur, but there's the notable exception of Penang where the main language is Hokkien, so it could be either way and we'd have to ask)
Oppose: Sl Zektonic Crosstimer Jeromy~Yuyu Simon Shek
Now, you may claim the vote was rigged all you want.
But if it _was_ rigged, it was actually _in favour_ of Cantonese speakers, given that I personally informed everyone who had a Cantonese babel template and was accepting Wikipedia e-mails. AND, _all_ of the Cantonese speakers who voted "oppose", with the exception of Simon Shek, were informed by me of the vote via e-mail.
Now, even if you add the 7 users from the meetup (not counting Simon Shek, who voted as well) as "oppose" votes, you end up with equal numbers in favour and opposed.
Having said that, I'm still a bit surprised that Alex would change her mind when it seemed before like she was really interested in a Cantonese Wikipedia...
And it also seems suspect to me that while the majority of Cantonese speakers who VOTED were in favour, those at the meetup were "unanimous" in their opposition.
You may think that this has to do with the alleged vote rigging, however all that consisted of was me e-mailing Cantonese speakers to tell them about the vote. The message said, quite basically, that there was a vote, and that their input was requested. I didn't include my views, an endorsement of either side, etc.
Mark
On 25/09/05, Jimmy Wales jwales@wikia.com wrote:
Walter van Kalken wrote:
Yet here we are, with non-Cantonese folks spearheading the effort, and a Cantonese-based meetup saying no, they don't want one.
And all the voting Cantonese speakers were there? Why are your Cantonese speakers who met there more valuable than the many supporters? You act like the group that met has Veto rights on the issue.
No, but it sure is interesting, isn't it?
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