One of the effects of the recent page capitalization issue has been that the notice about this has overwritten direct access from en:wiktionary to the foundation vote pages.
I was only able to find it by rooting around special pages. It would be helpful if the appropriate links were re-established
Ec
Hello everyone,
I had a question about how links to other languages are structured.
For example, when i am looking at an english word, and click on an entry in the left-hand column to see the definition in another language, sometimes there is an intermediate page on the other language's site that uses the english translation of the word as the page name and it lists a link to the translated word. I don't understand why sometimes this page organization is used?
An example is the intermediate page for the italian translation of the word house which can be found here: http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house
Any help would be much appreciated, thank you, Andrew.
edward molasses wrote:
Hello everyone,
I had a question about how links to other languages are structured.
For example, when i am looking at an english word, and click on an entry in the left-hand column to see the definition in another language, sometimes there is an intermediate page on the other language's site that uses the english translation of the word as the page name and it lists a link to the translated word. I don't understand why sometimes this page organization is used?
An example is the intermediate page for the italian translation of the word house which can be found here: http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house
Any help would be much appreciated, thank you, Andrew.
Hoi, When a word like house is created in the Italian wiktionary, it is a foreign word. Much of the information is with the Italian word, casa is this case. The way the interwiki links for wiktionary work is that they refer to words that are exactly spelled the same way. You may find different content for a word that is spelled the same way. The reason for this is that it is a lot of work when you have to add all the content on all words. So the information is there, it is just one click further away.
There have been two big changes in the interwiki world. The first is that the English language wiktionary now has its articles spelled in their default format; not more first character capitalisation. Many of the interwiki links have been changed that way to reflect this. The only problem left is that the interwiki software does not handle redirects well. When it refers to a redirect it will expect that this redirect is correct. In fact if the word is not in the same case, it propably is not.
The other big change has been in the interwiki.py program. It now allows you to run the bot and it will check a large number of wiktionaries that you can be simultaneously logged on. This means that when a new link is found for a word, it will be added to all words that the software is aware of. As you may understand, changes like this take their time to mature, however it is a mark of the maturity of the software that so many cool things are developped to such a degree of perfection.
Thanks, GerardM
Hoi, When a word like house is created in the Italian wiktionary, it is a foreign word. Much of the information is with the Italian word, casa is this case. The way the interwiki links for wiktionary work is that they refer to words that are exactly spelled the same way. You may find different content for a word that is spelled the same way. The reason for this is that it is a lot of work when you have to add all the content on all words. So the information is there, it is just one click further away.
There have been two big changes in the interwiki world. The first is that the English language wiktionary now has its articles spelled in their default format; not more first character capitalisation. Many of the interwiki links have been changed that way to reflect this. The only problem left is that the interwiki software does not handle redirects well. When it refers to a redirect it will expect that this redirect is correct. In fact if the word is not in the same case, it propably is not.
The other big change has been in the interwiki.py program. It now allows you to run the bot and it will check a large number of wiktionaries that you can be simultaneously logged on. This means that when a new link is found for a word, it will be added to all words that the software is aware of. As you may understand, changes like this take their time to mature, however it is a mark of the maturity of the software that so many cool things are developped to such a degree of perfection.
hi Gerard,
Thank you very much for the help. I think things are a bit clearer. Am I right to understand that the interwiki.py program, in the case of Wiktionary, will automatically update page content with links from a word to it's corresponding translation in other languages on other wiki sites? I suppose it would be considered a sort of bot?
Thanks again, Andrew.
edward molasses molasses-one@shaw.ca wrote:
For example, when i am looking at an english word, and click on an entry in the left-hand column to see the definition in another language, sometimes there is an intermediate page on the other language's site that uses the english translation of the word as the page name and it lists a link to the translated word. I don't understand why sometimes this page organization is used?
An example is the intermediate page for the italian translation of the word house which can be found here: http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house
The purpose of interlanguage links is to link to an article on the *same* topic in another language. For the purpose of a dictionary, this means the same word. Thus an article that treats the English word 'house' must use interwiki links for other languages with articles also treating the English word 'house'.
Some wiktionaries have been using an inline link in the translation table for the kind of link you appear to be looking for, i.e., a link from en:house to it:casa... this generally appears next to the translation as a small symbol such as ^, °, ☞, or ↺, depending on the wiktionary.
When the Wiktionaries are better written, http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house will have an actual definition of the word as well.
*Muke!
On Friday 08 July 2005 2:46 pm, Muke Tever wrote:
The purpose of interlanguage links is to link to an article on the *same* topic in another language. For the purpose of a dictionary, this means the same word. Thus an article that treats the English word 'house' must use interwiki links for other languages with articles also treating the English word 'house'.
Some wiktionaries have been using an inline link in the translation table for the kind of link you appear to be looking for, i.e., a link from en:house to it:casa... this generally appears next to the translation as a small symbol such as ^, °, â, or âº, depending on the wiktionary.
When the Wiktionaries are better written, http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house will have an actual definition of the word as well.
*Muke!
Thank you for the help Muke! I'm not sure I understand completely, is it that traditionally editors of wiktionary word pages will add the interwiki link using the english translation of the word as the page name because they don't know what the translated word would be, and the wiki of the other language's site will have the intermediate page named with the english translation to make it easier for the english wiki to link to it without knowing the translation of the word?
Andrew.
edward molasses molasses-one@shaw.ca wrote:
On Friday 08 July 2005 2:46 pm, Muke Tever wrote:
The purpose of interlanguage links is to link to an article on the *same* topic in another language. For the purpose of a dictionary, this means the same word. Thus an article that treats the English word 'house' must use interwiki links for other languages with articles also treating the English word 'house'.
Some wiktionaries have been using an inline link in the translation table for the kind of link you appear to be looking for, i.e., a link from en:house to it:casa... this generally appears next to the translation as a small symbol such as ^, °, ☞, or ↺, depending on the wiktionary.
When the Wiktionaries are better written, http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house will have an actual definition of the word as well.
Thank you for the help Muke! I'm not sure I understand completely, is it that traditionally editors of wiktionary word pages will add the interwiki link using the english translation of the word as the page name because they don't know what the translated word would be, and the wiki of the other language's site will have the intermediate page named with the english translation to make it easier for the english wiki to link to it without knowing the translation of the word?
No.
The purpose of the interlanguage links is to link to the *same topic* treated in *another language*. For wikipedia, this means [[en:house]] would have a link to [[it:casa]], because wikipedia writes articles about people, places, things, and ideas, but for wiktionary this means [[en:house]] links to [[it:house]] -- this is because the subject matter of wiktionary is *words*.
It may help if you consider the page title to be in full "the word 'house'". The corresponding Italian page has to be "la parola 'house'", which is why [[en:house]] links to [[it:house]].
Remember, each wiktionary aims to cover all words in all languages. The page that links to [[it:casa]] is http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/casa.
*Muke!
Muke Tever wrote:
edward molasses molasses-one@shaw.ca wrote:
On Friday 08 July 2005 2:46 pm, Muke Tever wrote:
The purpose of interlanguage links is to link to an article on the *same* topic in another language. For the purpose of a dictionary, this means the same word. Thus an article that treats the English word 'house' must use interwiki links for other languages with articles also treating the English word 'house'.
Some wiktionaries have been using an inline link in the translation table for the kind of link you appear to be looking for, i.e., a link from en:house to it:casa... this generally appears next to the translation as a small symbol such as ^, °, ☞, or ↺, depending on the wiktionary.
When the Wiktionaries are better written, http://it.wiktionary.org/wiki/house will have an actual definition of the word as well.
Thank you for the help Muke! I'm not sure I understand completely, is it that traditionally editors of wiktionary word pages will add the interwiki link using the english translation of the word as the page name because they don't know what the translated word would be, and the wiki of the other language's site will have the intermediate page named with the english translation to make it easier for the english wiki to link to it without knowing the translation of the word?
No.
The purpose of the interlanguage links is to link to the *same topic* treated in *another language*. For wikipedia, this means [[en:house]] would have a link to [[it:casa]], because wikipedia writes articles about people, places, things, and ideas, but for wiktionary this means [[en:house]] links to [[it:house]] -- this is because the subject matter of wiktionary is *words*.
It may help if you consider the page title to be in full "the word 'house'". The corresponding Italian page has to be "la parola 'house'", which is why [[en:house]] links to [[it:house]].
Remember, each wiktionary aims to cover all words in all languages. The page that links to [[it:casa]] is http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/casa.
I think that Muke's explanation is accurate. The aim of all words in all languages for all languages is a very ambitious one. When the project is successful it will be like no other. We've had some interesting but difficult challenges on the way, and none of us believes that we have seen the end of challenges.
If you look at each Wiktionary from the perspective that it is written primarily (but not exclusively) with native speakers of that language in mind. In theory every Wiktionary should have an entry under "house" and under "casa". In every case it will include a reference to every language in which the words occur, but all the explanations will be in the host language. It will also take into account that "casa" is not just in Italian, but it can also be in Latin where it only applies to some kinds of houses, and in Spanish where it can also be an inflection of "casar" (meaning "to marry"), and whatever we might discover in other languages.
Thus "house" on the English Wiktionary will have a translation list which should link to the translated form on the English Wiktionary, and that in turn will have interwiki links to all the relevant languages.
Ec
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