Hi all,
The two largest Wiktionary projects (English and French) have two completely different logos. [1], [2]
The reason for this, from what I understand, is that a vote was taken place about the logo fr.wiktionary currently has, on meta [3]; which the English Wiktionary community chose not to be bound by, because they, as a community, disagreed with the outcome.
I understand that there are complaints that new logo has elements too closely resembling Scrabble pieces, or are otherwise too cartooned to some. The "new" logo does maintain some visual identity as a project logo, while the "classic" logo isn't really a logo at all, and diverges wildly from project to project. Of the top ten Wiktionary projects, four of them use the new version, while 6 of them use some variation of the classic version:
fr: new en: classic tr: new vi: new ru: classic (a variation which little resembles the original) io: classic (English version) el: new zh: classic (divergent variation) pl: classic (divergent variation) fi: classic (English version)
As a whole, I seem to remember that Wiktionary is the second most visited site of the Foundation's websites, and I really do think it should be appropriate that the site should reflect a common visual identity, one that the classic logo does a poor job of creating. The new logo, however, met with rather heavy resistance in, at the very least, the English Wiktionary community.
I do, rather strongly, believe that the Wiktionary identity needs to be squared away, having some poll in general inclusive of, yet binding of all Wiktionary projects, and then if that fails, starting the process again, and succeeding to foment an individual logo like the recent successful Wikibooks logo revamp.
Cary
[1] http://en.wiktionary.org [2] http://fr.wiktionary.org [3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
I think that "new" logo is easier for creating (and translating). That's why I chose "new" variant of logo for uk.wiktionary logo. And community supported me.
2009/3/25 Cary Bass cary@wikimedia.org
Hi all,
The two largest Wiktionary projects (English and French) have two completely different logos. [1], [2]
The reason for this, from what I understand, is that a vote was taken place about the logo fr.wiktionary currently has, on meta [3]; which the English Wiktionary community chose not to be bound by, because they, as a community, disagreed with the outcome.
I understand that there are complaints that new logo has elements too closely resembling Scrabble pieces, or are otherwise too cartooned to some. The "new" logo does maintain some visual identity as a project logo, while the "classic" logo isn't really a logo at all, and diverges wildly from project to project. Of the top ten Wiktionary projects, four of them use the new version, while 6 of them use some variation of the classic version:
fr: new en: classic tr: new vi: new ru: classic (a variation which little resembles the original) io: classic (English version) el: new zh: classic (divergent variation) pl: classic (divergent variation) fi: classic (English version)
As a whole, I seem to remember that Wiktionary is the second most visited site of the Foundation's websites, and I really do think it should be appropriate that the site should reflect a common visual identity, one that the classic logo does a poor job of creating. The new logo, however, met with rather heavy resistance in, at the very least, the English Wiktionary community.
I do, rather strongly, believe that the Wiktionary identity needs to be squared away, having some poll in general inclusive of, yet binding of all Wiktionary projects, and then if that fails, starting the process again, and succeeding to foment an individual logo like the recent successful Wikibooks logo revamp.
Cary
[1] http://en.wiktionary.org [2] http://fr.wiktionary.org [3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
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We also have the issue of the favicon to consider. At the moment, it's identical to Wikipedia's, and will be, unless the logo gains wide acceptance.
See [4]
Cary
[4] https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16315
Анатолій Гончаров wrote:
I think that "new" logo is easier for creating (and translating). That's why I chose "new" variant of logo for uk.wiktionary logo. And community supported me.
2009/3/25 Cary Bass cary@wikimedia.org
Hi all,
The two largest Wiktionary projects (English and French) have two completely different logos. [1], [2]
The reason for this, from what I understand, is that a vote was taken place about the logo fr.wiktionary currently has, on meta [3]; which the English Wiktionary community chose not to be bound by, because they, as a community, disagreed with the outcome.
I understand that there are complaints that new logo has elements too closely resembling Scrabble pieces, or are otherwise too cartooned to some. The "new" logo does maintain some visual identity as a project logo, while the "classic" logo isn't really a logo at all, and diverges wildly from project to project. Of the top ten Wiktionary projects, four of them use the new version, while 6 of them use some variation of the classic version:
fr: new en: classic tr: new vi: new ru: classic (a variation which little resembles the original) io: classic (English version) el: new zh: classic (divergent variation) pl: classic (divergent variation) fi: classic (English version)
As a whole, I seem to remember that Wiktionary is the second most visited site of the Foundation's websites, and I really do think it should be appropriate that the site should reflect a common visual identity, one that the classic logo does a poor job of creating. The new logo, however, met with rather heavy resistance in, at the very least, the English Wiktionary community.
I do, rather strongly, believe that the Wiktionary identity needs to be squared away, having some poll in general inclusive of, yet binding of all Wiktionary projects, and then if that fails, starting the process again, and succeeding to foment an individual logo like the recent successful Wikibooks logo revamp.
Cary
[1] http://en.wiktionary.org [2] http://fr.wiktionary.org [3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
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On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Анатолій Гончаров ahonc.ua@gmail.com wrote:
I think that "new" logo is easier for creating (and translating). That's why I chose "new" variant of logo for uk.wiktionary logo. And community supported me.
At the other side, the old logo is the only WMF logo which may express diversity inside of one language at the little bit more intelligent way than "Slobodna енциклопедија" (cf. [1]).
This means that sh.wikt (and, possibly, sr.wikt) will wait with adoption of the new logo until en.wikt and de.wikt adopt them.
Hi all,
Just wanted to second Cary's note - we talked about it briefly today. A single brand identity for the project would be so much stronger, so I encourage discussion on the matter. I completely appreciate the challenges and how things have evolved up to this point, but it would certainly be worth a deeper discussion and resolution.
Generally speaking we want to ensure all of the brand identities line up across languages. I'm always impressed by the simple and elegant way the project marks get localized in other languages/scripts but still nicely translate with the visual style.
Best,
Hi,
I personally like the new logo, but from the discussion on en.wikt, we/they have resisted it so long that I suspect it would seem to be losing face to back down now. I believe a portion of the resistance is due to a rumour that Hasbro have some kind of legal claim to a scrabble tile, and so we might be infringing on that; if that rumour could be publicly debunked that would help.
The favicon I regard as a non-issue and is not really relevant here. All(?) Wikipedias use an, almost universally recognised, globe logo; they should have a globe favicon. Wiktionary doesn't have a clearly preferred logo, but the W is about the only feature common to both (though on the tiles I think it is a true W as opposed to overlayed Vs).
Conrad
2009/3/25 Jay Walsh jwalsh@wikimedia.org:
Hi all,
Just wanted to second Cary's note - we talked about it briefly today. A single brand identity for the project would be so much stronger, so I encourage discussion on the matter. I completely appreciate the challenges and how things have evolved up to this point, but it would certainly be worth a deeper discussion and resolution.
Generally speaking we want to ensure all of the brand identities line up across languages. I'm always impressed by the simple and elegant way the project marks get localized in other languages/scripts but still nicely translate with the visual style.
Best,
-- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609
On Mar 24, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Cary Bass wrote:
Hi all,
The two largest Wiktionary projects (English and French) have two completely different logos. [1], [2]
The reason for this, from what I understand, is that a vote was taken place about the logo fr.wiktionary currently has, on meta [3]; which the English Wiktionary community chose not to be bound by, because they, as a community, disagreed with the outcome.
I understand that there are complaints that new logo has elements too closely resembling Scrabble pieces, or are otherwise too cartooned to some. The "new" logo does maintain some visual identity as a project logo, while the "classic" logo isn't really a logo at all, and diverges wildly from project to project. Of the top ten Wiktionary projects, four of them use the new version, while 6 of them use some variation of the classic version:
fr: new en: classic tr: new vi: new ru: classic (a variation which little resembles the original) io: classic (English version) el: new zh: classic (divergent variation) pl: classic (divergent variation) fi: classic (English version)
As a whole, I seem to remember that Wiktionary is the second most visited site of the Foundation's websites, and I really do think it should be appropriate that the site should reflect a common visual identity, one that the classic logo does a poor job of creating. The new logo, however, met with rather heavy resistance in, at the very least, the English Wiktionary community.
I do, rather strongly, believe that the Wiktionary identity needs to be squared away, having some poll in general inclusive of, yet binding of all Wiktionary projects, and then if that fails, starting the process again, and succeeding to foment an individual logo like the recent successful Wikibooks logo revamp.
Cary
[1] http://en.wiktionary.org [2] http://fr.wiktionary.org [3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
Hello all, this is a very old and often discussed issue, the problems raised with the logo were not yet addressed (such as copyright issues, which characters to use), and the new 'logo' is IMHO the most ugly thing I have ever seen.
Btw.: from alexa.com: Where people go on Wiktionary.org:
- en.wiktionary.org - 48.6% <- old logo - de.wiktionary.org - 12.8% <- old logo - fr.wiktionary.org - 9.7% <- new logo - ru.wiktionary.org - 3.6% <- old logo - es.wiktionary.org - 3.1% <- old logo - ja.wiktionary.org - 2.9% <- old logo - pl.wiktionary.org - 2.4% <- old logo - pt.wiktionary.org - 2.3% <- old logo - it.wiktionary.org - 1.6% <- new logo - el.wiktionary.org - 1.5% <- new logo
Guess how many Wiktionarians apprently like the new logo...
Best regards, E.
2009/3/25 Jay Walsh jwalsh@wikimedia.org
Hi all,
Just wanted to second Cary's note - we talked about it briefly today. A single brand identity for the project would be so much stronger, so I encourage discussion on the matter. I completely appreciate the challenges and how things have evolved up to this point, but it would certainly be worth a deeper discussion and resolution.
Generally speaking we want to ensure all of the brand identities line up across languages. I'm always impressed by the simple and elegant way the project marks get localized in other languages/scripts but still nicely translate with the visual style.
Best,
-- Jay Walsh Head of Communications WikimediaFoundation.org +1 (415) 839 6885 x 609
On Mar 24, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Cary Bass wrote:
Hi all,
The two largest Wiktionary projects (English and French) have two completely different logos. [1], [2]
The reason for this, from what I understand, is that a vote was taken place about the logo fr.wiktionary currently has, on meta [3]; which the English Wiktionary community chose not to be bound by, because they, as a community, disagreed with the outcome.
I understand that there are complaints that new logo has elements too closely resembling Scrabble pieces, or are otherwise too cartooned to some. The "new" logo does maintain some visual identity as a project logo, while the "classic" logo isn't really a logo at all, and diverges wildly from project to project. Of the top ten Wiktionary projects, four of them use the new version, while 6 of them use some variation of the classic version:
fr: new en: classic tr: new vi: new ru: classic (a variation which little resembles the original) io: classic (English version) el: new zh: classic (divergent variation) pl: classic (divergent variation) fi: classic (English version)
As a whole, I seem to remember that Wiktionary is the second most visited site of the Foundation's websites, and I really do think it should be appropriate that the site should reflect a common visual identity, one that the classic logo does a poor job of creating. The new logo, however, met with rather heavy resistance in, at the very least, the English Wiktionary community.
I do, rather strongly, believe that the Wiktionary identity needs to be squared away, having some poll in general inclusive of, yet binding of all Wiktionary projects, and then if that fails, starting the process again, and succeeding to foment an individual logo like the recent successful Wikibooks logo revamp.
Cary
[1] http://en.wiktionary.org [2] http://fr.wiktionary.org [3] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo
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Elisabeth Anderl wrote:
Hello all, this is a very old and often discussed issue, the problems raised with the logo were not yet addressed (such as copyright issues, which characters to use), and the new 'logo' is IMHO the most ugly thing I have ever seen.
Btw.: from alexa.com: Where people go on Wiktionary.org:
- en.wiktionary.org - 48.6% <- old logo
- de.wiktionary.org - 12.8% <- old logo
- fr.wiktionary.org - 9.7% <- new logo
- ru.wiktionary.org - 3.6% <- old logo
- es.wiktionary.org - 3.1% <- old logo
- ja.wiktionary.org - 2.9% <- old logo
- pl.wiktionary.org - 2.4% <- old logo
- pt.wiktionary.org - 2.3% <- old logo
- it.wiktionary.org - 1.6% <- new logo
- el.wiktionary.org - 1.5% <- new logo
Guess how many Wiktionarians apprently like the new logo...
I didn't take part in the discussion and the vote, but this is a poor attempt to justify the old logo. People do not look at a web site like Wiktionary because of the logo.
Best regards, E.
Regards,
Yann
You do get me wrong, I am not justifying the old logo, it is not a logo, but the new logo is not accepted by many communities and there is a dispute going on for long time now [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], and I do not recommend to force all these communities with something ugly like that after all these failed attempts to get them to accept it. If there would be someone able to design a new one from the scratch, something that looks more serious and not like a kindergarden sign, maybe that might get more projectwide acception.
E.
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wiktionary/logo#Trademark_infringement [2] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2007-November/subject.html [3] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2007-February/subject.html [4] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2007-January/subject.html [5] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2006-September/subject.htm...
2009/3/25 Yann Forget yann@forget-me.net
Elisabeth Anderl wrote:
Hello all, this is a very old and often discussed issue, the problems raised with the logo were not yet addressed (such as
copyright
issues, which characters to use), and the new 'logo' is IMHO the most
ugly
thing I have ever seen.
Btw.: from alexa.com: Where people go on Wiktionary.org:
- en.wiktionary.org - 48.6% <- old logo
- de.wiktionary.org - 12.8% <- old logo
- fr.wiktionary.org - 9.7% <- new logo
- ru.wiktionary.org - 3.6% <- old logo
- es.wiktionary.org - 3.1% <- old logo
- ja.wiktionary.org - 2.9% <- old logo
- pl.wiktionary.org - 2.4% <- old logo
- pt.wiktionary.org - 2.3% <- old logo
- it.wiktionary.org - 1.6% <- new logo
- el.wiktionary.org - 1.5% <- new logo
Guess how many Wiktionarians apprently like the new logo...
I didn't take part in the discussion and the vote, but this is a poor attempt to justify the old logo. People do not look at a web site like Wiktionary because of the logo.
Best regards, E.
Regards,
Yann
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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I'd like to propose the following page:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiktionary/logo/refresh be opened for arguments and vote on it start in a weeks time.
I'd also like considerable help in advertising it throughout the projects and managing the page, as well.
Cary
Elisabeth Anderl wrote:
You do get me wrong, I am not justifying the old logo, it is not a logo, but the new logo is not accepted by many communities and there is a dispute going on for long time now [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], and I do not recommend to force all these communities with something ugly like that after all these failed attempts to get them to accept it. If there would be someone able to design a new one from the scratch, something that looks more serious and not like a kindergarden sign, maybe that might get more projectwide acception.
E.
[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wiktionary/logo#Trademark_infringement [2] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2007-November/subject.html [3] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2007-February/subject.html [4] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2007-January/subject.html [5] http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiktionary-l/2006-September/subject.htm...
2009/3/25 Yann Forget yann@forget-me.net
Elisabeth Anderl wrote:
Hello all, this is a very old and often discussed issue, the problems raised with the logo were not yet addressed (such as
copyright
issues, which characters to use), and the new 'logo' is IMHO the most
ugly
thing I have ever seen.
Btw.: from alexa.com: Where people go on Wiktionary.org:
- en.wiktionary.org - 48.6% <- old logo - de.wiktionary.org -
12.8% <- old logo - fr.wiktionary.org - 9.7% <- new logo - ru.wiktionary.org - 3.6% <- old logo - es.wiktionary.org - 3.1% <- old logo - ja.wiktionary.org - 2.9% <- old logo - pl.wiktionary.org - 2.4% <- old logo - pt.wiktionary.org - 2.3% <- old logo - it.wiktionary.org - 1.6% <- new logo - el.wiktionary.org - 1.5% <- new logo
Guess how many Wiktionarians apprently like the new logo...
I didn't take part in the discussion and the vote, but this is a poor attempt to justify the old logo. People do not look at a web site like Wiktionary because of the logo.
Best regards, E.
Regards,
Yann -- http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres
_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Cary Bass cary@wikimedia.org wrote:
I'd also like considerable help in advertising it throughout the projects and managing the page, as well.
CentralNotice on all wiktionaries? :-)
Hi,
I didn't like the new logo (and the way it was chosen), but we installed it anyway on fr.wiktionary because we wanted to have a unified logo. If all the Wiktionaries don't use it, it is useless.
I'd like to vote for a new logo, but the process should be better prepared than last time.
Note on the scrabble thing: personally it's not the copyright with Hasbro that bothered me. I just think that the logo should identify the project ("hey, it's the Wiktionary!") without reference to something else ("hey, it's that dictionary that uses scrabble tiles!").
Darkdadaah from fr.wiktionary
2009/3/25 Yann Forget yann@forget-me.net
Elisabeth Anderl wrote:
Hello all, this is a very old and often discussed issue, the problems raised with the logo were not yet addressed (such as
copyright
issues, which characters to use), and the new 'logo' is IMHO the most
ugly
thing I have ever seen.
Btw.: from alexa.com: Where people go on Wiktionary.org:
- en.wiktionary.org - 48.6% <- old logo
- de.wiktionary.org - 12.8% <- old logo
- fr.wiktionary.org - 9.7% <- new logo
- ru.wiktionary.org - 3.6% <- old logo
- es.wiktionary.org - 3.1% <- old logo
- ja.wiktionary.org - 2.9% <- old logo
- pl.wiktionary.org - 2.4% <- old logo
- pt.wiktionary.org - 2.3% <- old logo
- it.wiktionary.org - 1.6% <- new logo
- el.wiktionary.org - 1.5% <- new logo
Guess how many Wiktionarians apprently like the new logo...
I didn't take part in the discussion and the vote, but this is a poor attempt to justify the old logo. People do not look at a web site like Wiktionary because of the logo.
Best regards, E.
Regards,
Yann
http://www.non-violence.org/ | Site collaboratif sur la non-violence http://www.forget-me.net/ | Alternatives sur le Net http://fr.wikisource.org/ | Bibliothèque libre http://wikilivres.info | Documents libres
Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org