(Just poking foundation-l, please continue with discussion at wiktionary-l, or, better, at Meta [1])
During Wikimania I asked Gerard Meijssen would he be willing to give OmegaWiki to Wikimedia. He said that he doesn't have anything against it: software is free, content is free. More precisely, he told to me "Take it!" :)
My initial idea was that it would be the best to replace all Wiktionaries with OmegaWiki. However, the last day of Wikimania I was talking with one Swedish guy who is working on Swedish Wiktionary. He has complained that philologists like more open form for writing dictionary. Thus, my suggestion is to adopt OmegaWiki as one of Wiktionaries, probably as http://wiktionary.org/, similarly to the multilingual Wikisource.
And, of course, before possible adoption we need discussion and some software improvements of Wikidata extension.
[1] - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
* * *
As multilingual projects are not in the scope of the [[Language committee]], before the implementation (or not) of the idea, community should discuss about it.
[http://www.omegawiki.org/ OmegaWiki] is a formal multilingual dictionary based on MediaWiki extension [[:mw:Extension:Wikidata|Wikidata]].
No matter would it be the only Wiktionary or it would be just one of the Wiktionaries, OmegaWiki would raise quality of Wiktionaries. At the other side, the project would get much more attention as a Wikimedia project.
Wikidata extension should be improved (from user experience and linguistic points of view) before implementation as Wikimedia project.
[[User:GerardM|Gerard Meijssen]], the founder of OmegaWiki project, doesn't have anything against adopting it as a Wikimedia project.
== Advantages and disadvantages of adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== Advantages === * It is possible to create one billion entries per Wiktionary: All synthetic languages could import at least ~10M of words, but probably more if all common phrases are counted. Thus, it means that we need just 100 synthetic or polysynthetic languages to create one billion entries per Wiktionary. This is very large number and while it is possible to keep technically one such project, presently it is hardly possible to keep a number of projects with more than billion of entries. * It is structured formally. * ...
=== Disadvantages === * Philologists like more open form for dictionaries. * OmegaWiki is distant from the wiki principle. Software fixes should make it closer. * ...
== How to adopt OmegaWiki == * Instead of all Wiktionaries. * As www.wiktionary.org, like www.wikisource.org is the place for multilingual Wikisource. * As mul.wiktionary.org (ISO 639-5 code for multilingual entities) * ...?
== Minimums for adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== If OmegaWiki replaces all Wiktionaries === * Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic features. * Fixing bugs in software if needed. * Adding all needed features to satisfy philological needs. * Importing all data from Wiktionaries.
=== If OmegaWiki becomes one of the Wiktionaries === * Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic features. * Fixing bugs in software if needed.
== Licensing ==
OmegaWiki licences are CC-BY and GFDL. It is a bit of pleonasm, as CC-BY is a subset of GFDL (and CC-BY-SA as well).
* Licensing should probably stay CC-BY, not CC-BY-SA. There is a legal problem of copyrighting words, phrases, sentences and definitions, which mean that it would be probably better to leave the least restrictive license as the OmegaWiki license. * ...
[[Category:Requests for comments]]
Hoi, OmegaWiki is truly multi lingual in that depending on the amount of content available in a language labels and annotations will show up in the preferred language. Recently many of the relevant phrases were localised in Telugu and consequently it became useful in Telugu.
When a language is right to left the user interface and the data is shown in the right to left direction.
One or the more interesting things of OmegaWiki is that we do have links to Commons and Wikipedia. This means that when you look for pictures of a "hobune" you will actually find them. Having links to Wikipedia means that they can effectively work as interwiki links.
To understand why we at OmegaWiki want the WMF to adopt this project, we have always wanted OmegaWiki to be a WMF project. As far as the suggestion goes to end the Wiktionary projects, we have always said that this is for the Wiktionary projects themselves to decide. However particularly for the smaller projects the effort of adding content to OmegaWiki is more efficient as more people benefit from work that only needs to be done once.
As OmegaWiki has its data in a database, it is possible to use the data in applications. This is very much our goal ... we are on record saying "success is when people find an application for our data we did not think off."
As to the license, PD would be our preferred license but sadly their are too many people who consider that their must be a license because ... In our view making our data available under a license prevents success. This is a reason why we are not interested in "copyright violations". Thanks, GerardM
On 19 July 2010 09:05, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
(Just poking foundation-l, please continue with discussion at wiktionary-l, or, better, at Meta [1])
During Wikimania I asked Gerard Meijssen would he be willing to give OmegaWiki to Wikimedia. He said that he doesn't have anything against it: software is free, content is free. More precisely, he told to me "Take it!" :)
My initial idea was that it would be the best to replace all Wiktionaries with OmegaWiki. However, the last day of Wikimania I was talking with one Swedish guy who is working on Swedish Wiktionary. He has complained that philologists like more open form for writing dictionary. Thus, my suggestion is to adopt OmegaWiki as one of Wiktionaries, probably as http://wiktionary.org/, similarly to the multilingual Wikisource.
And, of course, before possible adoption we need discussion and some software improvements of Wikidata extension.
[1] - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
As multilingual projects are not in the scope of the [[Language committee]], before the implementation (or not) of the idea, community should discuss about it.
[http://www.omegawiki.org/ OmegaWiki] is a formal multilingual dictionary based on MediaWiki extension [[:mw:Extension:Wikidata|Wikidata]].
No matter would it be the only Wiktionary or it would be just one of the Wiktionaries, OmegaWiki would raise quality of Wiktionaries. At the other side, the project would get much more attention as a Wikimedia project.
Wikidata extension should be improved (from user experience and linguistic points of view) before implementation as Wikimedia project.
[[User:GerardM|Gerard Meijssen]], the founder of OmegaWiki project, doesn't have anything against adopting it as a Wikimedia project.
== Advantages and disadvantages of adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== Advantages ===
- It is possible to create one billion entries per Wiktionary: All
synthetic languages could import at least ~10M of words, but probably more if all common phrases are counted. Thus, it means that we need just 100 synthetic or polysynthetic languages to create one billion entries per Wiktionary. This is very large number and while it is possible to keep technically one such project, presently it is hardly possible to keep a number of projects with more than billion of entries.
- It is structured formally.
- ...
=== Disadvantages ===
- Philologists like more open form for dictionaries.
- OmegaWiki is distant from the wiki principle. Software fixes should
make it closer.
- ...
== How to adopt OmegaWiki ==
- Instead of all Wiktionaries.
- As www.wiktionary.org, like www.wikisource.org is the place for
multilingual Wikisource.
- As mul.wiktionary.org (ISO 639-5 code for multilingual entities)
- ...?
== Minimums for adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== If OmegaWiki replaces all Wiktionaries ===
- Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic
features.
- Fixing bugs in software if needed.
- Adding all needed features to satisfy philological needs.
- Importing all data from Wiktionaries.
=== If OmegaWiki becomes one of the Wiktionaries ===
- Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic
features.
- Fixing bugs in software if needed.
== Licensing ==
OmegaWiki licences are CC-BY and GFDL. It is a bit of pleonasm, as CC-BY is a subset of GFDL (and CC-BY-SA as well).
- Licensing should probably stay CC-BY, not CC-BY-SA. There is a legal
problem of copyrighting words, phrases, sentences and definitions, which mean that it would be probably better to leave the least restrictive license as the OmegaWiki license.
- ...
[[Category:Requests for comments]]
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, OmegaWiki is truly multi lingual in that depending on the amount of content available in a language labels and annotations will show up in the preferred language. Recently many of the relevant phrases were localised in Telugu and consequently it became useful in Telugu.
When a language is right to left the user interface and the data is shown in the right to left direction.
One or the more interesting things of OmegaWiki is that we do have links to Commons and Wikipedia. This means that when you look for pictures of a "hobune" you will actually find them. Having links to Wikipedia means that they can effectively work as interwiki links.
These seem more like things that just _aren't_ currently done on Wiktionary than things that need Ω because they _can't_ be. (I know the first at least was tried, but didn't really catch on, and 'hobune' has had a link to et.wiki since 2007—it's only convention that makes these links on a by-entry rather than a by-sense basis.) Given that it does seem to be a product of its own culture, I agree with Milos' idea that it would be better as a separate Wiktionary, if it needed to take on the name of Wiktionary at all.
As OmegaWiki has its data in a database, it is possible to use the data in applications.
I don't suppose it comes in an ISO 1951:2007-compatible format? The 'view source' button and Special:Export appear to be broken. :|
*Muke!
Hi, Omegawiki might be great, ok, I don't put that into question. But there are reasons why /some/ people did continue working in Wiktionary. It does not contain flexion tables, genders etc. and I personally find it confusing. If You close them You will lose people starting with me.
E.
2010/7/19 Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com
(Just poking foundation-l, please continue with discussion at wiktionary-l, or, better, at Meta [1])
During Wikimania I asked Gerard Meijssen would he be willing to give OmegaWiki to Wikimedia. He said that he doesn't have anything against it: software is free, content is free. More precisely, he told to me "Take it!" :)
My initial idea was that it would be the best to replace all Wiktionaries with OmegaWiki. However, the last day of Wikimania I was talking with one Swedish guy who is working on Swedish Wiktionary. He has complained that philologists like more open form for writing dictionary. Thus, my suggestion is to adopt OmegaWiki as one of Wiktionaries, probably as http://wiktionary.org/, similarly to the multilingual Wikisource.
And, of course, before possible adoption we need discussion and some software improvements of Wikidata extension.
[1] - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
As multilingual projects are not in the scope of the [[Language committee]], before the implementation (or not) of the idea, community should discuss about it.
[http://www.omegawiki.org/ OmegaWiki] is a formal multilingual dictionary based on MediaWiki extension [[:mw:Extension:Wikidata|Wikidata]].
No matter would it be the only Wiktionary or it would be just one of the Wiktionaries, OmegaWiki would raise quality of Wiktionaries. At the other side, the project would get much more attention as a Wikimedia project.
Wikidata extension should be improved (from user experience and linguistic points of view) before implementation as Wikimedia project.
[[User:GerardM|Gerard Meijssen]], the founder of OmegaWiki project, doesn't have anything against adopting it as a Wikimedia project.
== Advantages and disadvantages of adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== Advantages ===
- It is possible to create one billion entries per Wiktionary: All
synthetic languages could import at least ~10M of words, but probably more if all common phrases are counted. Thus, it means that we need just 100 synthetic or polysynthetic languages to create one billion entries per Wiktionary. This is very large number and while it is possible to keep technically one such project, presently it is hardly possible to keep a number of projects with more than billion of entries.
- It is structured formally.
- ...
=== Disadvantages ===
- Philologists like more open form for dictionaries.
- OmegaWiki is distant from the wiki principle. Software fixes should
make it closer.
- ...
== How to adopt OmegaWiki ==
- Instead of all Wiktionaries.
- As www.wiktionary.org, like www.wikisource.org is the place for
multilingual Wikisource.
- As mul.wiktionary.org (ISO 639-5 code for multilingual entities)
- ...?
== Minimums for adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== If OmegaWiki replaces all Wiktionaries ===
- Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic
features.
- Fixing bugs in software if needed.
- Adding all needed features to satisfy philological needs.
- Importing all data from Wiktionaries.
=== If OmegaWiki becomes one of the Wiktionaries ===
- Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic
features.
- Fixing bugs in software if needed.
== Licensing ==
OmegaWiki licences are CC-BY and GFDL. It is a bit of pleonasm, as CC-BY is a subset of GFDL (and CC-BY-SA as well).
- Licensing should probably stay CC-BY, not CC-BY-SA. There is a legal
problem of copyrighting words, phrases, sentences and definitions, which mean that it would be probably better to leave the least restrictive license as the OmegaWiki license.
- ...
[[Category:Requests for comments]]
Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
Hoi, I have always said and will do so again that I am not in favour of closing Wiktionaries. This is for the Wiktionary comunities themselves to decide. It is true that we do not support inflections, we do support genders and many other things.
Spacebirdy, I do not want to lose you :) you are part of our community and a well respected member at that. Thanks, GerardM
On 19 July 2010 14:38, e spacebirdy@gmail.com wrote:
Hi, Omegawiki might be great, ok, I don't put that into question. But there are reasons why /some/ people did continue working in Wiktionary. It does not contain flexion tables, genders etc. and I personally find it confusing. If You close them You will lose people starting with me.
E.
2010/7/19 Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com
(Just poking foundation-l, please continue with discussion at wiktionary-l, or, better, at Meta [1])
During Wikimania I asked Gerard Meijssen would he be willing to give OmegaWiki to Wikimedia. He said that he doesn't have anything against it: software is free, content is free. More precisely, he told to me "Take it!" :)
My initial idea was that it would be the best to replace all Wiktionaries with OmegaWiki. However, the last day of Wikimania I was talking with one Swedish guy who is working on Swedish Wiktionary. He has complained that philologists like more open form for writing dictionary. Thus, my suggestion is to adopt OmegaWiki as one of Wiktionaries, probably as http://wiktionary.org/, similarly to the multilingual Wikisource.
And, of course, before possible adoption we need discussion and some software improvements of Wikidata extension.
[1] -
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Adopt_OmegaWiki
As multilingual projects are not in the scope of the [[Language committee]], before the implementation (or not) of the idea, community should discuss about it.
[http://www.omegawiki.org/ OmegaWiki] is a formal multilingual dictionary based on MediaWiki extension [[:mw:Extension:Wikidata|Wikidata]].
No matter would it be the only Wiktionary or it would be just one of the Wiktionaries, OmegaWiki would raise quality of Wiktionaries. At the other side, the project would get much more attention as a Wikimedia project.
Wikidata extension should be improved (from user experience and linguistic points of view) before implementation as Wikimedia project.
[[User:GerardM|Gerard Meijssen]], the founder of OmegaWiki project, doesn't have anything against adopting it as a Wikimedia project.
== Advantages and disadvantages of adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== Advantages ===
- It is possible to create one billion entries per Wiktionary: All
synthetic languages could import at least ~10M of words, but probably more if all common phrases are counted. Thus, it means that we need just 100 synthetic or polysynthetic languages to create one billion entries per Wiktionary. This is very large number and while it is possible to keep technically one such project, presently it is hardly possible to keep a number of projects with more than billion of entries.
- It is structured formally.
- ...
=== Disadvantages ===
- Philologists like more open form for dictionaries.
- OmegaWiki is distant from the wiki principle. Software fixes should
make it closer.
- ...
== How to adopt OmegaWiki ==
- Instead of all Wiktionaries.
- As www.wiktionary.org, like www.wikisource.org is the place for
multilingual Wikisource.
- As mul.wiktionary.org (ISO 639-5 code for multilingual entities)
- ...?
== Minimums for adopting OmegaWiki ==
=== If OmegaWiki replaces all Wiktionaries ===
- Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic
features.
- Fixing bugs in software if needed.
- Adding all needed features to satisfy philological needs.
- Importing all data from Wiktionaries.
=== If OmegaWiki becomes one of the Wiktionaries ===
- Evaluation of software by linguists and adding necessary linguistic
features.
- Fixing bugs in software if needed.
== Licensing ==
OmegaWiki licences are CC-BY and GFDL. It is a bit of pleonasm, as CC-BY is a subset of GFDL (and CC-BY-SA as well).
- Licensing should probably stay CC-BY, not CC-BY-SA. There is a legal
problem of copyrighting words, phrases, sentences and definitions, which mean that it would be probably better to leave the least restrictive license as the OmegaWiki license.
- ...
[[Category:Requests for comments]]
Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
Wiktionary-l mailing list Wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiktionary-l
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 3:05 AM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
(Just poking foundation-l, please continue with discussion at wiktionary-l, or, better, at Meta [1])
Can you make sure that you leave a note on most Wiktionaries notifying them of this discussion too?
wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org