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Dominic wrote:
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
When I read what is proposed, the impression is given that a process will start with a compulsory outcome. I understand the rationale for one shared logo and favicon. The problem is that it is people outside of Wiktionary that want to improve the Wiktionary "brand" and the last time it was very much these outsiders that made the selection.
Exactly. Despite the fact that fr.wikt and a few others eventually adopted the logo, the logo debacle was not en.wikt's making. It wasn't a refusal to accept the the outcome of the proposal, it was a reluctance to be dictated to by people who weren't a part of the community. I'm afraid this will be interpreted the same way, if we're proposing to just slap a sitenotice on all the Wiktionaries telling them to discuss a new logo. There needs to be community impetus for the change, so that the meta discussion evolves out of actual community desire for a new logo. We should start at places like en.wikt's [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour]], fr.wikt's [[Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]], and es.wikt's [[Wikcionario:Café]], not foundation-l.
I have to respectfully disagree that a proposal that will affect all these projects has to originate in thirty different places. Since there is no central Wiktionary community, the Meta project, and Foundation-l as well as Wiktionary-l (which was cross-posted) is the place to get the discussion going.
While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects, whether or not the English Wiktionary wants it or not. The discussion has to get started, no matter where it is, and meta and the two mailing lists are, in fact, the appropriate place to start the discussion. I do expect (and have asked) that links to that discussion are made from those projects (and in the Central Notice as well)
I would find it sad if the English Wiktionary were to choose not to involve itself in a process that will ultimately affect its appearance; however, I don't anticipate this will actually be the case.
Cary
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Cary Bass wrote:
While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects, whether or not the English Wiktionary wants it or not.
I'd like a chance to rephrase this, for poor grammar, as well as unintended harshness. Cary Bass wrote:
Dominic wrote:
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
When I read what is proposed, the impression is given that a process will start with a compulsory outcome. I understand the rationale for one shared logo and favicon. The problem is that it is people outside of Wiktionary that want to improve the Wiktionary "brand" and the last time it was very much these outsiders that made the selection.
Exactly. Despite the fact that fr.wikt and a few others eventually adopted the logo, the logo debacle was not en.wikt's making. It wasn't a refusal to accept the the outcome of the proposal, it was a reluctance to be dictated to by people who weren't a part of the community. I'm afraid this will be interpreted the same way, if we're proposing to just slap a sitenotice on all the Wiktionaries telling them to discuss a new logo. There needs to be community impetus for the change, so that the meta discussion evolves out of actual community desire for a new logo. We should start at places like en.wikt's [[Wiktionary:Beer parlour]], fr.wikt's [[Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]], and es.wikt's [[Wikcionario:Café]], not foundation-l.
I have to respectfully disagree that a proposal that will affect all these projects has to originate in thirty different places. Since there is no central Wiktionary community, the Meta project, and Foundation-l as well as Wiktionary-l (which was cross-posted) is the place to get the discussion going.
While the English Wiktionary community may or may not be satisfied with the logo as-is, in the interest of maintaining a visual identity, one logo has to be used across projects, whether or not the English Wiktionary wants it or not. The discussion has to get started, no matter where it is, and meta and the two mailing lists are, in fact, the appropriate place to start the discussion. I do expect (and have asked) that links to that discussion are made from those projects (and in the Central Notice as well)
I would find it sad if the English Wiktionary were to choose not to involve itself in a process that will ultimately affect its appearance; however, I don't anticipate this will actually be the case.
Cary
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The Wiktionary projects should maintain a unique visual identity. It is of the utmost importance that the identity be unique to Wiktionary, but common among the projects.
Also, I want to point out: Guillaume Paumier did a great presentation at Wikimania 2007 on Visual Identity here: http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proceedings:GP1
The PDF linked has some well-researched information about Visual Identity, and the workshop was extremely interesting.
Cary
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