Ray, You say that all the arguments have been put forward. They cannot be as this system is not finished; it needs refinements. It is not ready. The time for arguments is not there yet.

You talk about consensus; but I am not putting the system forward asking for consensus as it is not finished. It works after a fashion. It is not finished and I do not ask for anything. The only thing I ask for is to leave some articles as a "proof of the pudding"; to show current thinking.

One of the refinements needed, can be found in better code for headers. It has been said that the code will be revisited. My hope is that the TOC and the edit boxes will work better.

You are factually wrong where you say that a word for one language is shorter than a message: Nederlands <-> {{nl}}. The one thing is you know it as Dutch :) . I do not need to know what it is in Japanese; {{nl}} suffices. I have recently added _many_ translations to [[French]], [[English]] in the en:wiktionary. I used the messages and they are as good in English as they are in the Dutch wiktionary. Therefore there are immediate benefits. I added more than twenty new translations in 2 minutes.

As to the En:wiktionary, there are translations that are hopelessly wrong and nothing is done about it.

When I read articles like [[Korean]] in en:wiktionary I find they are unusable. Many of the Romanian translations of many words have numbers in them . I hope that this is not because of a consensus.

You may have noticed that the discussion stopped on the page that you refer to. This is not because I do not cherish the good points that were made and it is not because I do not welcome constructive criticism.

At present I am fleshing out the words, the format, the translations. I am adding _loads_ of translations thanks to Timwi. When “we” find that the system does not work and will not work, there are bots that can change messages to the locally required texts so what I do is not in vein.

I also have done mainly nouns, no idioms, no sayings, so there is still a lot to be done. However, the words for languages are central to being able to translate. That is the function I am focussing on.

NB I have no idea where the "we" will be. But I hope and am certain it will be a bigger discussion than just nl:WikiWoordenboek.

Thanks, Gerard ds have numbers in them . I hope that this is not because of a consensus.

You may have noticed that the discussion stopped on the page that you refer to. This is not because I do not cherish the good points that were made and it is not because I do not welcome constructive criticism.

At present I am fleshing out the words, the format, the translations. I am adding _loads_ of translations thanks to Timwi. When “we” find that the system does not work and will not work, th