Hoi, Yannf has added a category "language" to the categories that hold the words in a language. This gives you one list with all lists of words in a particular language. To make it really nice, he is adding links from one list of words in a language to the same list on a different wiktionary. This makes it possible to compare content between the different wiktionaries.
A category displays how many entries there are on a list; I have used this on the "nl:Hoofdpagina", the main page, to indicate how many languages we may have words in.
Thanks, GerardM
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:04:32 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote:
Hoi, Yannf has added a category "language" to the categories that hold the words in a language. This gives you one list with all lists of words in a particular language.
What, like our Latin [[Category:Linguae]] ? ;) http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Linguae
(I realize I digress entirely with this next section here:)
A lot of Latin categories belong to other categories. It keeps them all in order. For example you can start at the list of names of animals in the family "Canidae": http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Canidae
and it is categorized under the order "Carnivora", which is categorized under the class "Mammalia", which is under the phylum "Chordata", etc., the whole tree under a taxonomy category. I think it is a better system than other wiktionaries use. Instead of being broad in domain but narrow in coverage (like en:'s "English mammals" or fr:'s "Lexique en français des animaux") it goes for narrow in domain but broad in coverage: entries are categorized by family, but contain words in all languages, which I think is a more useful kind of collection...
It does have the drawback of requiring many more categories, though: currently with 682 words we have 213 categories, which is even more categories than en: has! ;)
*Muke!
Muke Tever wrote:
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:04:32 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote:
Hoi, Yannf has added a category "language" to the categories that hold the words in a language. This gives you one list with all lists of words in a particular language.
What, like our Latin [[Category:Linguae]] ? ;) http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Linguae
(I realize I digress entirely with this next section here:)
A lot of Latin categories belong to other categories. It keeps them all in order. For example you can start at the list of names of animals in the family "Canidae": http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Canidae
and it is categorized under the order "Carnivora", which is categorized under the class "Mammalia", which is under the phylum "Chordata", etc., the whole tree under a taxonomy category. I think it is a better system than other wiktionaries use. Instead of being broad in domain but narrow in coverage (like en:'s "English mammals" or fr:'s "Lexique en français des animaux") it goes for narrow in domain but broad in coverage: entries are categorized by family, but contain words in all languages, which I think is a more useful kind of collection...
It does have the drawback of requiring many more categories, though: currently with 682 words we have 213 categories, which is even more categories than en: has! ;)
*Muke!
There is similarity between the Latin list and what Yann has achieved, there is a difference as well. The category is only used in the category that indicates that a word is in a particular lanuguage. This category is added as part of the template that indicates that a word is in that language.
Yann, has improved the standard that several wiktionaries share. The Latin list is valuable and therefore I have created interlanguage links to the equivalents in other wiktionaries. To make communication between the wiktionaries easier, I also try to find where "the bar", "the kroeg" or however it is called in a wiktionary and create a link to it. The [[nl:WikiWoordenboek:De kroeg]] refers to: [[de:Wiktionary:Ich brauche Hilfe]] [[en:Wiktionary:Beer parlour]] [[fr:Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]] [[hi:विकिपीडिया:गाँव का पम्प]] [[it:Wikizionario:Bar]] [[ja:Wiktionary:居酒屋]] [[la:O]] [[sv:Wiktionary:Bybrunnen]] [[zh:Wiktionary:啤酒馆]]
I would be happy to extend this list :)
As to categories, personally I often fine them more a nuisance than a help. I have found that barbed wire was put into the category "building material" which to me is silly. It is by exception that I think that a category really adds value. One use in a wiktionary context is to indicate that a word/phrase belongs to a particular glossary that is incorporated in the wiktionary.
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 17:20:53 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote:
Yann, has improved the standard that several wiktionaries share. The Latin list is valuable and therefore I have created interlanguage links to the equivalents in other wiktionaries. To make communication between the wiktionaries easier, I also try to find where "the bar", "the kroeg" or however it is called in a wiktionary and create a link to it. The [[nl:WikiWoordenboek:De kroeg]] refers to: [[de:Wiktionary:Ich brauche Hilfe]] [[en:Wiktionary:Beer parlour]] [[fr:Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]] [[hi:विकिपीडिया:गाँव का पम्प]] [[it:Wikizionario:Bar]] [[ja:Wiktionary:居酒屋]] [[la:O]] [[sv:Wiktionary:Bybrunnen]] [[zh:Wiktionary:啤酒馆]]
I would be happy to extend this list :)
It is not [[la:O]] ! I think that was an inline link someone (probably me) tried to make in the en:beer parlor either forgetting to preface the colon ([[:la:O]]) or before interwikis were turned on. The Latin page is [[Wikipedia:Taberna]]. (Yes, Wikipedia, because the namespaces' translations are still unimplemented...)
As to categories, personally I often fine them more a nuisance than a help. I have found that barbed wire was put into the category "building material" which to me is silly.
What else is it used for? The only purpose I know of is building fences.
*Muke!
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
[[nl:WikiWoordenboek:De kroeg]] [[de:Wiktionary:Ich brauche Hilfe]] [[en:Wiktionary:Beer parlour]] [[fr:Wiktionnaire:Wikidémie]] [[hi:??????????:???? ?? ????]] [[it:Wikizionario:Bar]] [[ja:Wiktionary:???]] [[la:O]] [[sv:Wiktionary:Bybrunnen]] [[zh:Wiktionary:???]]
[[pl:Wikis%C5%82ownik:Bar]]
Muke Tever wrote:
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:04:32 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote:
Hoi, Yannf has added a category "language" to the categories that hold the words in a language. This gives you one list with all lists of words in a particular language.
What, like our Latin [[Category:Linguae]] ? ;) http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Linguae
(I realize I digress entirely with this next section here:)
A lot of Latin categories belong to other categories. It keeps them all in order. For example you can start at the list of names of animals in the family "Canidae": http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Canidae
and it is categorized under the order "Carnivora", which is categorized under the class "Mammalia", which is under the phylum "Chordata", etc., the whole tree under a taxonomy category. I think it is a better system than other wiktionaries use. Instead of being broad in domain but narrow in coverage (like en:'s "English mammals" or fr:'s "Lexique en français des animaux") it goes for narrow in domain but broad in coverage: entries are categorized by family, but contain words in all languages, which I think is a more useful kind of collection...
It does have the drawback of requiring many more categories, though: currently with 682 words we have 213 categories, which is even more categories than en: has! ;)
I do find the use of "English" as a category name to be useless. For me the correct use of "English mammals" as a category name would refer to mammals that are found in England. Even "English language" should be limited to terms that are about the English language. A very broad application that reduces it to any English word dilutes the value of the term. Using another language name that way on the English Wiktionary is slightly more justifiable, but the efficient use of "==Spanish==" should work just as well to came up with a list of all Spanish words in the Wiktionary, and a reliable Boolean search of "==Spanish== and ===Adjective===" should give us all Spanish adjectives.
I don't know whether using "Carnivora", "Canidae", etc. will do much for us. Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the new Wikispecies?
Ec
Ray Saintonge wrote:
Muke Tever wrote:
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:04:32 +0100, Gerard Meijssen gerardm@myrealbox.com wrote:
Hoi, Yannf has added a category "language" to the categories that hold the words in a language. This gives you one list with all lists of words in a particular language.
What, like our Latin [[Category:Linguae]] ? ;) http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Linguae
(I realize I digress entirely with this next section here:)
A lot of Latin categories belong to other categories. It keeps them all in order. For example you can start at the list of names of animals in the family "Canidae": http://la.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Canidae
and it is categorized under the order "Carnivora", which is categorized under the class "Mammalia", which is under the phylum "Chordata", etc., the whole tree under a taxonomy category. I think it is a better system than other wiktionaries use. Instead of being broad in domain but narrow in coverage (like en:'s "English mammals" or fr:'s "Lexique en français des animaux") it goes for narrow in domain but broad in coverage: entries are categorized by family, but contain words in all languages, which I think is a more useful kind of collection...
It does have the drawback of requiring many more categories, though: currently with 682 words we have 213 categories, which is even more categories than en: has! ;)
I do find the use of "English" as a category name to be useless. For me the correct use of "English mammals" as a category name would refer to mammals that are found in England. Even "English language" should be limited to terms that are about the English language. A very broad application that reduces it to any English word dilutes the value of the term. Using another language name that way on the English Wiktionary is slightly more justifiable, but the efficient use of "==Spanish==" should work just as well to came up with a list of all Spanish words in the Wiktionary, and a reliable Boolean search of "==Spanish== and ===Adjective===" should give us all Spanish adjectives.
I don't know whether using "Carnivora", "Canidae", etc. will do much for us. Shouldn't that be the responsibility of the new Wikispecies?
Ec
Ray, You do miss the point why the use of templates like {{-en-}} is usefull. They help to make data portable between different wiktionaries. The data of the English wiktionary is very hard to use as there is a reluctance to understand and accept innovations like these templates for what they are; a way of increasing cooperation. A list of all words in a lanuage is of a relative merit except for the fact that it was created to have a list with all words in a language that can exceed the 500 entries limit that exists when you ask for the usage of a particular lemma. It has added benefits as this list is in alphabetical order. These categories for words in a language were requested by a user from the ENGLISH wiktionary by the way.
On previous occations I have explained that the use of templates like {{-en-}} is not for a lexicological reason. They are there for a technical reason. it allows for the easy transfer of data as mentioned earlier and it has different content than just a definition of a term on the nl:wiktionary, in other wiktionaries it points to a definition on wikipedia, to the wiktionary definition or not at all. That is up to the local wiktionary. This is what the use of the templates allows for. There is only efficient use of "==Spanish==" if you are not interested in looking further than the English wiktionary. That is in my view a bit short sighted given the current amount of active wiktionaries and the need for quality content in all of them.
Thanks, Gerard
Muke Tever wrote:
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Yannf has added a category "language" to the categories that hold the words in a language. This gives you one list with all lists of words in a particular language.
What, like our Latin [[Category:Linguae]] ? ;)
It seems that many wiktionaries use the category system to create indices of the entries in particular language. However, the current version of our software doesn't really support such use.
In the Polish Wiktionary we have around 16.000 Interlingua entries. We won't even try to add the category to the template...
At this point we generate indices with an external program: http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Indeks:Has%C5%82a_wed%C5%82ug_j%C4%99zyk%C3%B3... - but it's a bad solution. Categories would be easier...
At some point there was talk that in the new version of the software categories containing many entries will automatically split into subpages divided by the initial letter of the entry, or even further (eg. English - Aa, English - Ab, ..., English - Zz). Is someone working on that?
I think that auto-generating indices is one of the most important features that Wiktionaries miss in the software. We need a system that can handle listing tens of thousands of entries. If one user requests this feature, the request will most probably be ignored. However, if the communities of several Wiktionaries request it together, perhaps we can count on developers recognising this need?
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