Wiktionary-l August 2005

wiktionary-l@lists.wikimedia.org

13 participants
16 discussions

private: nds.wiktionary.org
by Heiko Evermann 16 Aug '05

16 Aug '05

One more thing: concerning "http://stade-buxtehude.de/platt/deutschplatt.htm Werner Eichelberg sien dollet Wöörbook" 1) I had not checked that part of [[nds:plattdüütsch Vokabular]]] in detail before. (There are quite a number of pages in nds.wikipedia.org that I have not read or at least not read in detail. 2) I had come across that dictionary quite some time ago when searching for words for the translation of KDE. I had at that time already wondered about some of the entries. 3) the meaning of doll is not German "toll" as Sabine thinks, but to be more precise: toll; sehr, schlimm, stark; merkwürdig; zornig, wütend". "Dat is to doll" is a fixed phrase in Low Saxon and it means "das ist nicht auszuhalten", "this is unbearable", "this is going to far". (The original meaning of "toll" in German is similar. Only later did that word aquire the meaning "cool".) The most appropriate translation of "doll" into colloquial English would be "Werner Eichelberg's crazy dictionary". I do not however know whether the author of that page (Baas) was aware of the spectrum of meanings of "dull". Kind regards, Heiko Evermann

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Islandic wiktionary
by Gerard Meijssen 16 Aug '05

16 Aug '05

Hoi, Brion was so good to change the capitalisation for the Islandic wiktionary.. So the Icelandic wiktionarians can do there best :) So now lets hope Brion finds his script he used so well on the English Wiktionary and change the Polish wiktionary as well. Thanks, GerardM

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Wikimania - Spanish - we need someone for proofreading in Spanish
by Sabine Cretella 06 Aug '05

06 Aug '05

Hi, we need someone for proofreading of some Spanish texts for Wikimania - is anyone here who could help us? Thanks, Sabine ___________________________________ Yahoo! Mail: gratis 1GB per i messaggi e allegati da 10MB http://mail.yahoo.it

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] languages that do not have "correct spelling" standards
by Jim Breen 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

Greetings, [Sabine Cretella ([Wiktionary-l] languages that do not have "correct spelling" standards) writes:] >> I take this theme up since it is not only a Ultimate Wiktionary problem >> ... it is an actual problem for many minor languages. >> >> When there are several possibilities to write a word within a language >> these should be treated on an equal level. No-one may ever discriminate >> one of the possible spellings. I think this goes to the heart of the issue, and I totally agree with you. >> The important thing is that if these >> different spellings can be attributed to a ceratain "branch" it should >> be done. Those who cannot be classified just receive the general >> language classification. Hear, hear. >> Anyway: I am a translator for EN-DE and IT-DE now we have a pretty weird >> situation with German. There was a spelling reform that in a first place >> was adopted by all federal states and this year in autumn the new >> spelling should have become the only valid one... now in Germany these >> decisions are not taken centrally by the federal government in Berlin, >> but by the ministries for education and culture of the single federal >> states. Some of these federal states, among them Bavaria, will not >> accept the deadline of this year in autumn, but accept old and new >> writing. It is a funny situation for my job, since it could mean that a >> customer tells you that he wants the old spelling or the new spelling >> depending on where he lives and what he prefers or in most cases they >> will not even bother how things are written, since many don't even know >> the new spelling rules ... it is really a strange situation: imagine >> someone in Bavaria translates a text - legally he/she may use whatever >> ortography he/she likes - if the customer lives in a state where the old >> ortography is not valid anymore this can lead to a bad surprise. And in many countries there is no concept of a "correct" spelling or orthgraphy, and there would be outrage if an education ministry tried to enforce one. In Australia, for example, we generally use "British" spellings (of which there can be more than one for words such as recognize/recognise), but a few words sometimes take the "American" spelling. This is just a matter of usage. The main dictionary published here (Macquarie) records what is used, but makes no attempt to define what is correct. In Japan the education ministry issues advisories on matters such as which kanji should be used, or which portions of a word should be in kana, but the actual usage is varied and accepted. In fact, writers often adopt their own styles on this matter. (The big "Daijirin" dictionary published by Sanseido has "ikebana" written four different ways within the one entry.) With my Japanese-English dictionary I get occasional requests that I mark the English translational equivalents according to where that form of word is used. In fact it is very difficult to do so. While there are indeed two broad groupings in English spelling, when you get to the detailed level you can almost never say spelling X is only used in country Y, or in country A spelling B is the only one used. Cheers Jim -- Jim Breen http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ Clayton School of Information Technology, Tel: +61 3 9905 9554 Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia Fax: +61 3 9905 5146 (Monash Provider No. 00008C) ジム・ブリーン@モナシュ大学

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] Ultimate Wiktionary and design decisions
by Jim Breen 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

[Muke Tever (Re: [Wiktionary-l] Ultimate Wiktionary and design decisions) writes:] >> Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>>> One crucial decision is that only correct spelling is allowed. >> >>> >> JB> Fine, as long as you are going to cater for multiple correct spellings. >> JB> If you don't it's going to be difficult for some languages, e.g., >> JB> English, and impossible for others, e.g.. Japanese. >> >>> >> >> Many languages have different accepted spellings for the same word. >> >> Japanese with the three character sets. German with umlauts and ae, oe >> >> and ue or ss instead of ß. Esperanto accepts cx and ch for ^c. Dutch >> >> had at one time a preferred and a progressive spelling and English has >> >> some variants depending on the locality it is spoken. I'm sure it >> >> doesn't end there and it is something a multilingual dictionary has to >> >> cater for. Adding common misspellings shouldn't be all that hard. They >> >> simply need a possibility to be marked as such. The misspellings don't >> >> exactly have to be shown either (except maybe on demand), but when >> >> somebody uses them to search the database, the entries they point to >> >> should be found. >> > >> > Have a look at the latest design it caters for having some Miss >> > Pellings. >> > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary_decisions_on_its_usage#O… Yes, it mention "incorrect spelling", but is silent on the matter of valid spelling varinats. >> What about languages that do not have "correct spelling" standards? Indeed. If you look at http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ultimate_Wiktionary_decisions_on_its_us… you'll see Gerard and I have been, er, discussing this matter. Cheers Jim -- Jim Breen http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ Clayton School of Information Technology, Tel: +61 3 9905 9554 Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia Fax: +61 3 9905 5146 (Monash Provider No. 00008C) $B%8%`!&%V%j!<%s(B@$B%b%J%7%eBg3X(B

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Re: [Wiktionary-l] Ultimate Wiktionary and design decisions
by Jim Breen 02 Aug '05

02 Aug '05

[Gerard Meijssen ([Wiktionary-l] Ultimate Wiktionary and design decisions) writes:] >> For the Ultimate Wiktionary I have documented some of the design >> criteria. It can be found here: >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary_decisions_on_its_usage >> The Data design can be found here: >> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_Wiktionary_data_design I have added some comments to the Discussion pages of those two. >> One crucial decision is that only correct spelling is allowed. Fine, as long as you are going to cater for multiple correct spellings. If you don't it's going to be difficult for some languages, e.g., English, and impossible for others, e.g.. Japanese. >> This >> means that all incorrect spelling will be amended or deleted. As >> Ultimate Wiktionary is a database, it does not cater for things like >> redirects. I urge you to have a look at both the design criteria and the >> design itself because this is the time when it is relatively easy to >> make changes. Once Erik starts coding the UW database, having finished >> Wikidata and the GEMET implementation, the moment has passed us by. Indeed. Jim -- Jim Breen http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/ Clayton School of Information Technology, Tel: +61 3 9905 9554 Monash University, VIC 3800, Australia Fax: +61 3 9905 5146 (Monash Provider No. 00008C) ジム・ブリーン@モナシュ大学

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Wiktionary-l August 2005