It strikes me as violating the principle of least astonishment that
"Delete this page" and the little "(del)" link next to the current image
revision do different things on an image description page, namely:
* "Delete this page" deletes only the image description page, leaving
the image file and its revisions intact, and the image remains in the
images list
* "(del)" deletes the image file, any old revisions, the entry from the
images list, *and* the description page.
User expectation seems to be that "delete this page" should perform the
second function.
-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
Google seems to be spidering us again. Only a small percentage of articles
is back so far (try "Raelism"), but I presume the problem is solved.
Probably the robots.txt.
Regards,
Erik
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Opera, Mozilla, IE, Netscape and Konqueror ALL
SUPPORT UTF-8.
I have used them all to edit Polish Wikipedia
(which is UTF-8) and had never any problems about
that. Opera has broken charset autodetection, you may
wish to play with settings a bit.
Not on Macintosh.
Btw, I left you a sample in the sandbox (Opera work).
And I saved the main page at the meta (excuse me, I am
a vandal :-))))) (Netscape work) (I'll restore it
later...)
You sounded so sure of yourself...please have a look.
This is not a minor issue, but I have no idea why
netscape does that...
>Other problems you describe have nothing to do with
UTF-8. If it realy doesn't work, try upgrading your
browser.
The fact they don't have anything to do with UTF
doesn't make them work any better. I forgot one other
bug. With Netscape and UTF, the browser inserts some
random spaces in the text. Brion had to clean after me
a couple of times.
I was told to upgrade to Opera 6. I tried and it
crashed the computer 2 times, so I gave up.
Well, your problem is a *major* one. So I need to find
a way. I'll tried again that Opera 6.
>One reason are Interwiki links, which now must be
coded
by %-sequences, and making en->pl links is very
inconvenient,
especially when using konqueror, which displays normal
characters, not %-sequences in URL bar. But the really
important one is that we really need characters
outside ISO-8859-1. How can I write article about any
Polish city if I can't
write half of Polish diactrics ? The same applies to
most
of central Europe, and to most romanizations schemes
of other
scripts (which use lot of diactrics).
How can I write any article about people from such
places ?
Engish Wikipedia screws this issue completely by
stripping
essential diactrics (like
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech_Walesa). How can I
write article about some language that doesn't
use ISO-8859-1 (that's some 90% of world languages) ?
Polish Wikipedia contains more linguistic information
than English now, mostly because you can't do any
decent
linguistics without using native scripts. Even if I
wanted
to translate Polish articles to English, I wouldn't be
able
to put them on English Wikipedia.
Ok. That's a major issue. Though...I wonder about how
many articles will be using diactrics on the
fr.wiki...The international links yes. But they should
not be in the article anyway. Could not they be coded
differently ?
Well...I know I bear no chance because we have a
linguist on the fr. wiki, and I know he would *love*
UTF.
But I wonder...even if I succeed to make that Opera 6
work (I have no other option, right ?), that doesnot
change the fact that Wikipedia will not be editable by
a french macintosh user with Netscape 4.5, or IE, or
Opera 5 or Mozilla (and a couple of other minor
versions).
You might say "who care about Macintosh user" ?
Yeah, who care...
Imac were sold a lot in France (much more in % than in
any other country I believe). Many scientific people
use Mac. Basically 100% of graphists, a lot of
journalists... So, yes, that troubles me to know that
most mac editors will maybe be treated as vandals
first.
Please, mac users, what do you use ????
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Message: 3
Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Alternative proposal for
interlanguage links
redesign and a few other issues
From: Erik Moeller <e.moeller(a)fokus.gmd.de>
To: wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org
Organization: FOKUS
Date: 08 Jan 2003 14:55:32 +0100
Reply-To: wikitech-l(a)wikipedia.org
On Die, 2003-01-07 at 19:07, Tomasz Wegrzanowski
wrote:
> 1. move everything to Postgres
> 2. move everything to common database, with tables
foo_cur, foo_old
etc.,
> where foo are language names
> 3. make single user table (needs some tweaking to
allow slightly
different
> preferences), single logging system, single
recent changes, and
all other
> nice things we can do with that
> 4. move everything to UTF-8, so we don't have to use
%escapes in
English Wikipedia
I would appreciate very much that you explain to me
very clearly what will be the benefits of switching to
UTF 8. I have no idea, and it must be important if you
think of moving everything this way.
As I understood, meta is coded in UTF-8.
I'll be very clear why this is an important matter to
me : if you move everything to UTF-8, I will just quit
Wikipedia.
The only place I can write properly on the meta is
from work (W2k and IE). And my boss doesn't appreciate
that much.
At home, I can't write any special characters; and if
I edit a page with some (for exemple "accueil" our
home page), I mess everything. It is a matte of
importance in french language.
Opera doesn't support UTF. Netscape doesn't support
some of our characters either, and is all crazy with
the frames (tool bar unusable). And from time to time,
IE refuse to edit long windows (it doesnot cut them as
Opera does, it just displays the visible part of the
edit window, the scrollbar just disappears). And
Mozilla is not working well, and real slow. So the
easiest way to me is to write with no accents. And
never edit pages with special characters.
I can't find a really satisfying option. It is not a
huge problem on meta. But it definitly would make
working on wikipedia articles a real pain. So please,
explain what the real benefits are, and don't make the
switch just a minor issue.
At least on the french one.
It won't be so bad on the english one, for you don't
use special characters much, but likely many people
will have to correct things after me. So, maybe I'll
give up participating on the en.wiki.
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The Dutch book stores page is misbehaving. There is no list given, instead
the page is overwritten by a number of error messages like the one below.
Does someone know what might be the problem?
Andre Engels
Warning: Cannot add header information - headers already sent by (output started at /usr/local/apache/htdocs-nl/w/SpecialBooksources.php:37) in /usr/local/apache/htdocs-nl/w/OutputPage.php on line 225
I have checked in a new feature that adds a "Go" button next to the
"Search" button (default skin). By using this button, you can display a
page directly instead of first searching for it and then following the
link, e.g. you type "CIA", click "Go", and you are put directly on the
CIA page. Quite handy if you have to jump between articles a lot.
Please let me know if there are any problems.
Regards,
Erik
--
FOKUS - Fraunhofer Insitute for Open Communication Systems
Project BerliOS - http://www.berlios.de
>Cologne Blue is much nicer.
>I think it should be default on other Wikipedias too.
I'm runnin' XFree86 4.2 using Mozilla 1.2.1 at a resolution of 1024x768 on a
21-inch Sony Trinitron monitor. I think the font sizes in Cologne Blue
could stand to be a bit bigger, especially with regard to the menu on the
left. I have a huge freakin' monitor, and I'm only runnin' at 1024x768 (to
get DRI), so one would think the fonts shouldn't be as small as they're
seeming to be. I've attached a screenshot if anyone is interested.
The Nostalgia theme is just god awful. *grin*
I /really/ like the default theme.
Okay, I'm done now,
Derek
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I played a bit with database.
Here is something that looks like Wikipedia database schema but
compiles in Posgres (and no, Wikipedia script won't be able to use
that yet):
CREATE TABLE user_table (
user_id serial NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY,
user_name varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
user_rights varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
user_password varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
user_newpassword varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
user_email varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
user_options varchar(65535) NOT NULL default '',
user_newtalk smallint NOT NULL default '1'
);
CREATE TABLE cur (
cur_id serial NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY,
cur_namespace smallint NOT NULL default '0',
cur_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
cur_text text NOT NULL default '',
cur_comment varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
cur_user int NOT NULL default '0',
cur_user_text varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
cur_timestamp char(14) NOT NULL default '',
cur_restrictions varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
cur_counter bigint NOT NULL default '0',
cur_ind_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
cur_ind_text text NOT NULL default '',
cur_is_redirect boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
cur_minor_edit boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
cur_is_new boolean NOT NULL default 'f'
);
CREATE TABLE old_table (
old_id serial NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY,
old_namespace smallint NOT NULL default '0',
old_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
old_text text NOT NULL default '',
old_comment varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
old_user int NOT NULL default '0',
old_user_text varchar(255) NOT NULL,
old_timestamp char(14) NOT NULL default '',
old_minor_edit boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
old_flags varchar(255) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE archive (
ar_namespace smallint NOT NULL default '0',
ar_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
ar_text text NOT NULL default '',
ar_comment varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
ar_user int NOT NULL default '0',
ar_user_text varchar(255) NOT NULL,
ar_timestamp char(14) NOT NULL default '',
ar_minor_edit boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
ar_flags varchar(255) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE links (
l_from varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
l_to int NOT NULL default '0'
);
CREATE TABLE brokenlinks (
bl_from int NOT NULL default '0',
bl_to varchar(255) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE imagelinks (
il_from varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
il_to varchar(255) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE site_stats (
ss_row_id int NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY,
ss_total_views bigint default '0',
ss_total_edits bigint default '0',
ss_good_articles bigint default '0'
);
CREATE TABLE ipblocks (
ipb_address varchar(40) NOT NULL default '',
ipb_user int NOT NULL default '0',
ipb_by int NOT NULL default '0',
ipb_reason varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
ipb_timestamp char(14) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE image (
img_name varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
img_size int NOT NULL default '0',
img_description varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
img_user int NOT NULL default '0',
img_user_text varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
img_timestamp char(14) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE oldimage (
oi_name varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
oi_archive_name varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
oi_size int NOT NULL default 0,
oi_description varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
oi_user int NOT NULL default '0',
oi_user_text varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
oi_timestamp char(14) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE random (
ra_current smallint NOT NULL default 0,
ra_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE recentchanges (
rc_timestamp varchar(14) NOT NULL default '',
rc_cur_time varchar(14) NOT NULL default '',
rc_user int NOT NULL default '0',
rc_user_text varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
rc_namespace smallint NOT NULL default '0',
rc_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
rc_comment varchar(255) NOT NULL default '',
rc_minor boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
rc_bot boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
rc_new boolean NOT NULL default 'f',
rc_cur_id int NOT NULL default '0',
rc_this_oldid int NOT NULL default '0',
rc_last_oldid int NOT NULL default '0'
);
CREATE TABLE watchlist (
wl_user int NOT NULL,
wl_namespace smallint NOT NULL default '0',
wl_title varchar(255) NOT NULL default ''
);
CREATE TABLE math (
math_inputhash char(16) NOT NULL PRIMARY KEY,
math_outputhash char(16) NOT NULL,
math_conservative bool NOT NULL,
math_html text NOT NULL
);
Of course, this isn't "real" code, and many changes will be necessary
to make it any useful. Anyway:
* user and old are reserved keywords in Postgres
* why are we using tinyblob(1) instead of bool for boolean data ?
* why are we creating so many indexes ? are all of them necessary ?
* shouldn't we use database-provided timestamps instead of varchar(14) ?
* rights and restrictions don't seem to be represented very efficiently.
using integer flag for that seems like a better idea to me
* it might be good idea to consider making our own searching system
instead of relying on something provided by database
> For the last several months we've been using Cologne
> Blue on the Esperanto Wikipedia and just now I
> realized that our search results have incredibly
> dropped in google to the point of non-existent. I
> used to be able to type "Rusio", "Indonezio" or
> "Usono" and the Esperanto Wikipedia would be in the
> top ten. Could we change our software back to the old
> standard, because we're trying to build an
> encyclopedia and not win a web design contest.
I think the problem might be something different. One or two days ago, it
was found that there was an error in the robots.txt, causing Google not to
bookmark most Wikipedia pages. This has now been changed back, but Google
has only indexed part of Wikipedia yet since then (for example, of the
English Wikipedia only about 23,000 pages). It may well be that this is the
reason Wikipedia pages are scoring lower than they used to do.
Talking about Google: It seems that at the moment Google has indexed ONLY
the titles of the Wikipedia pages, not their contents! Is there still
something wrong with the robots.txt file, or is this a quirk in the way
Google is building its database?
(sending a Cc: to wikitech-l)
Andre Engels
Dear Sirs,
Wikipedia is a large, collaborative project to produce a free
encyclopedia. There are currently nearly 100,000 articles, and about
200,000 page impressions per day.
As of last weekend, all Wikipedia articles seem to have disappeared from
the Google index. Wikipedia article URLs look like this:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/<article-name>
We are not aware of an outage that might have caused the Google spider
to miss the pages. I would much appreciate it if you could shed some
light on the issue.
Sincerely,
Erik Moeller
--
FOKUS - Fraunhofer Insitute for Open Communication Systems
Project BerliOS - http://www.berlios.de