David Friedland wrote:
Not quite what I was thinking: What I want is an unordered list with a mix of text and a table in each item. Something similar to this:
apricot +-----+---------------+---------------+ | | AmE | BrE | +-----+---------------+---------------+ | (1) | ["{.pr@.kAt] | ["{.pr@.kQt] | | (2) | ["eI.pr@.kAt] | ["eI.pr@.kQt] | +-----+---------------+---------------+
Both (1) and (2) are standard and are listed in most dictionaries.
arctic +-----+------------+------------+ | | AmE | BrE | +-----+------------+------------+ | (1) | ["Ar.tIk] | ["A:.tIk] | | (2) | ["Ark.tIk] | ["A:k.tIk] | +-----+------------+------------+
The debate is whether or not the <ct> cluster is pronounced [kt] or just [t]. M-W lists both, with (1) first, but OED only lists (2). Generally, the same pronunciation for the <ct> cluster is used for both ''artic'' and ''antarctic''. However, M-W lists (2) first for ''antarctic''.
OK, so why not like this:
+-----------+------------------------+---------------------+ | Word | Americal English | British English | +-----------+------------+-----------+---------+-----------+ | | (1) | (2) | (1) | (2) | +-----------+------------+-----------+---------+-----------+ | apricot | ... | ... | ... | ... | +-----------+------------+-----------+---------+-----------+ | | Some debate | +-----------+------------+-----------+---------+-----------+ | arctic | ... | ... | ... | ... | +-----------+------------+-----------+---------+-----------+ | | Some debate | +-----------+------------+-----------+---------+-----------+
Which would like this : {| ! Word !!colspan=2!AmE !!colspan=2!BrE |-- ! !!(1)!!(2)!!(2)!!(2) |-- |apricot||...||...||...||... |-- | ||colspan=4|Some debate |-- |arctic||...||...||...||... |-- | ||colspan=4|Some debate |}
The wiki syntax for tables will prove to be most useful in many circumstances, I am sure.
Are you sure the problem is with the table markup, and not with the list markup? The one-line-rule was there since the beginning. Squishing a whole HTML table into one line using HTML markup sure looks more ugly than the above code, no?
However,
- Tables are supposed to only be used for presenting tabular
information, not for layout. I don't think that the word itself and the description are tabular information, and so they shouldn't be in a table.
Well, at least the word is (see above). If we'd display the description right of the BrE colunm in above example, it would also become "tabular information". It just wouldn't look very pretty.
We're already using tables to display right-aligned images plus caption. Is that pretty markup? No. Is is tabular information? No. Is it abusing a table for layout purposes? Yes. Why do we do it? Because it's the best we can! (CSS+<div> won't wrap the caption text).
- Do we really want tables that extend across the entire page?
Why wouldn't we? And how would that be really different from having a zillion small tables extending across the entire page? OK, a single table would be less code, meaning less transfer time, but otherwise...
- This solution also requires using the colspan= option for first and
last row in the table for each word, which arguably decreases the readability of the wiki source.
Only for the discussion (see above).
- Would make every cell holding a pronunciation as wide as the longest
pronunciation.
Would spare us the AmE/BrE header for *every single word*!!!
- If we can embed tables in tables, why shouldn't we be able to embed
tables in unordered lists?
You can embed unordered lists in tables, though ;-)
Seriously: * Because list items shouldn't span a dozen lines or so. * Because it would complicate the markup, which is a Bad Thing (TM). Tables are bad enough already. * Because I don't have time to code it, since I spent all my time today on this mail ;-)
I think, in general, being able to extend the content of a list item across multiple lines of wiki source would be convenient. For example, on the current page I have a <br> between the pronunciations and the description text, but I think the wiki source would be more readable if I just put it on a separate line.
Oh there, it's the list markup, not the table after all! :-)
As for how to implement it, maybe the syntax could be that if a line containing a list item ends in a , then the next line is also part of that list item, and if the next line begins a table, the whole table is part of that list item. I haven't studied the PHP for processing wiki syntax, so I don't know how hard that would be to implement, though.
IMHO that would make the wiki code not more, but *less* readable.
I just want to reiterate that I think the wiki syntax for tables is a really great idea! I just wish I could use them on this page. Magnus, again, thanks for taking the initiative and making tables available in wiki syntax.
Thanks for the praise! :-)
Magnus