Mark Williamson a écrit:
Mark Williamson a écrit:
Hello Anthere,
It has already been resolved that most likely censorship of the Kurdish Wikipedia has been by individual netcafes, and not by the government.
Do you have facts to assert this ? I did not see anything else than hearsay.
We have the statement of a ku.wikipedia contributor who confirms he can access ku.wikipedia from his university, but not from a particular netcafe.
Right.... Well, this is a fact (though no name is provided).
Now, this is also a collection of hasty generalization
Right...
Do not claim something is true when you do not cite evidence Do not claim something is true over just one sample person experience Do not draw conclusion of censorship when information is missing to draw such a conclusion.
Quote: "Adding new languages is certainly a strain on developers. It certainly will be that this project will grow slowly (it would be wiser perhaps to work mostly on wiktionary rather than wikipedia to start with), but I do not think we should on purpose limit the existence of small projects on the motive there will be few editors to work on." (Anthere)
You claim something is true (strain on developers) without citing evidence, you claim it is true from your own experience presumably, and you claim it as a fact when in fact the next message was a message from TimStarling contradicting what you said: "It's not that much of a strain. I actually added this to the language list as soon as I saw the post, thinking that since it has an ISO 639-2 code, it would be uncontroversial."
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Also, such actions to censor minority language websites are
common in Turkish netcafes.
Do not generalized without citing facts. Do not make appeal to pity by using the word minority out of context.
I think the passage I quoted above is a generalisation without a citation of fact on your part.
Apparently, you need to look at the Ethnologue because Kurdish, Ladino, and all other non-Turkish languages of Turkey are minority languages - that is, they are spoken by less than 50% of the population. I fail to see how this is out of context, as it is an undeniable fact that, in the present boundaries of the nation of "Turkey", the majority language is Turkish, and thus all other languages are "minority languages" within the boundaries of that state.
However I think I should make it very clear that I think any such involvement should be independent of Wikipedia or ODP officially, even if some editors are involved.
Mark
Independant ? Hmmmm, somehow, I think that any letter send with as a signature the name of an editor and the link to his user page, is not exactly what I would call independant.
Right, so if I sent a letter to the government of Turkey requesting the release of H. Ertas, who was jailed just for editing a Turkish-language Kurdish culture category (not as I said earlier a category on terrorist groups) on DMOZ, there is some sort of requirement that, as a Wikipedian, I sign it "Mark Williamson (Wikipedia user Node_ue)"? There is life outside of Wikipedia, and there is activism independent of Wikipedia. I do not sign letters with my username and the fact that I am a Wikipedian unless it's relevant to the letter itself.
Do not change topics. We are talking of Wikipedia access only, not of the DMOZ issue.
Perhaps you did not read the letter which started this thread, written by Erdal Ronahi, in which he mentions the DMOZ issue? This is a mailinglist, and I will change topics whenever I want, regardless of what you say.
If you want to be an activist out of Wikipedia, please be so, but do not try to involve us in your advocacy.
When did I try to involve "you" in "my advocacy"? I never said "Antheres of the world, I call upon you to support me in my advocacy!".
Give it time.
Is this what you tell H. Ertas, who is going to spend the next ten months in prison just for editing a culture category on DMOZ? "Give it time, you will get out of prison eventually"?
And above all, avoid sneaky personal attacks.
You said "give it time" in direct response to what I said. If you propose to give it time, this means to me the same as if you said "Give it time, you will get out of prison eventually" to Mr H Ertas. That is not a sneaky personal attack.
And I have this to say as well: above all, avoid assuming a hostile tone in messages unless you feel you will later be able to explain your tone, especially when the previous message is not hostile in tone.
Mark