I'm not sure where you get off to characterizing what I'm saying as "see! I told you you'd be punished". This goes for Gerard's message, too.
If you think I was somehow delighted by the solutions you have presented, you are very wrong. I have things I would have much rathered to have happened which I shall not outline here. The idea of a "cleanup" (cleanup of what?) or of the possibility of an eventual merger are not ideal to me. But in the spirit of compromise, I accept them.
What neither of you seem to realize so far is that this is not just tiring, it is useless at this point. Nobody is listening to anyone anymore, so it would be wise, I think, for ALL of us to say "I will not write any more messages to you on this topic unless you provide NEW information or come up with a NEW idea for a compromise solution", because this is really only marginally better than the previously existing shouting match between MO proponents and MO detractors.
Obviously you guys don't pick either "side", if you did, things would be much different (if you picked anti-MO side, it would be gone already, if you picked pro-MO side, it would not be locked anymore and questions about its future would be closed)
The only reason I have jumped in here is because neither Liviu nor Jacky seems to be listening to you and I felt it might help if someone rehashed what you had said in more concise, clear terms. Obviously, it has not.
So it is for that reason that I am going to retire from this discussion. If you want to reply to what I have said here, fine, I am willing to discuss that, but I am not willing to discuss the actual Moldovan Wikipedia in this or any thread anymore as long as you four keep repeating yourselves over and over because frankly, it is not worth my time anymore (and there is a lot of complete and utter crap that is, in fact, "worth my time", because I have quite a bit of time on my hands).
I think everyone else here should do the same because this situation has not changed (let alone improved) since the very beginning of this thread. If you want to continue your futile discussions off-list, all the more power to you, but they no longer seem even slightly constructive so I am hoping you don't keep them up here, because I know I will not be able to keep myself from reading them (it's like a train wreck - you can't stop it, but you can't stop watching it either even if you want to)
And Gerard, a transliteration system is already very technically feasible, Bogdan Giusca had a system set up and working for demonstration, although it was very poor (apparently he was unwilling to make the necessary improvements so that words would be spelt correctly in Cyrillic) and did not convert round-trip, this could be done with our existing software.
The issue is not technical but human - as both you and Bèrto have stated repeatedly, it is currently unlikely to be supported by the ro.wp community.
Mark
On 12/03/07, Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Hoi!
We are quite capable to say what we have to say.
Sometimes I feel we are not :) I get the recurrent impression that whatever we say both sides just hit the "reply" button and copy back what they had said before...
So, for all who are blind/deaf: I have said it and will repeat it all over again: no consensus = no nothing. We will not go and impose a new script on a place where a civil war just ended simply to make the nerves of a couples of extremists happier. If and when there is a clear signal that the communities as a whole are in favor of the merge we can start to talk about tech details.
This "clear signal" includes stopping idiot mumbling about why any of the two sides has no right to exist and how you are going to tell the teacher that my mom was a nazist/communist if we don't buy you candies. We all have been kids and we all know what blackmailing is. Well, it won't work.
Just as it won't work hiding behind someone else and shouting "see? I told you you'd be punished!" (this one's for Mark, in case it's not clear). Since lots of people behave as 4 y.o. kids, I'll try the language lil' babies usually understand.
IS THAT CLEAR NOW? Or should we publish it in a multimedia hyerogliphic text with the Bangles playing underneath??
Now I switch my waiting mode on and keep waiting for a message beginning with: "My constructive position is <add MO-RO ideological crap here>".
Bèrto 'd Sèra Personagi dl'ann 2006 për l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojàotri) http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
-----Original Message----- From: wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikipedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of GerardM Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 10:14 PM To: wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Conspicuous only in its absence (was Moldavian)
Mark, It is not helpful if you repeat after us. You make it seem as if we agree with a side in this affair. We have not considered if we would accept it as a new project. What is at issue here is very much that the mo.wikipedia is an existing project, there are some people who care for it and the arguments used for its closure are not really acceptable.
The optimal solution from our pov is that the mo.wikipedia is cleaned up and that the data of both ro and mo are merged. The first step for this to happen is to coexist peacefully. Your behaviour does not help.
There is the option of a transliteration engine. This is however not available at this time. Optimally it should allow for round trip conversion.
Thanks, Gerard
On 3/12/07, Mark Williamson node.ue@gmail.com wrote:
Perhaps you have not been following this list.
Do you think Gerard or Bèrto really care who it is making these arguments? To them, you and Liviu may as well be the same person because you are saying the same things. Over and over.
They have said over and over that the position that they have already described is FINAL. They did not "misunderstand" anything, they did not miss any of the facts or the evidence.
Just because they do not agree with your personal interpretation of reality does not mean they need you to "tell them the facts". They have already heard what you have to say, and it has already been evaluated. Many times.
The suggestion was, originally made to Liviu: Go to ro.wp and start a poll there about adding an option to convert to Cyrillic. In the mean time, stop complaining. Their idea is that eventually such an option MIGHT exist, but only if ro.wp community successfully integrates it of its own free will, NOT on the decision of some random single user.
If you can get the majority of Ro.wp'ians to agree to a converter in the style of sr.wp (meaning that content may be edited and added in Cyrillic as well), then this discussion may proceed. If you cannot, it is over.
Nobody wants to hear any of this anymore. Haven't you understood that by now?
Mark
On 10/03/07, Jacky PB dpotop1@yahoo.com wrote:
Concerning your invitation to work, which is insulting:
- Don't you working guys have civility rules around
here any more? 2. Does your work consist in giving uncivil answers to messages you didn't read, sent by a user that did not send messages on this forum in the last 3 months? Because both you and GerardM answered my message without reading it. Or, if you read it, it may be useful to interrupt working for thinking a bit.
Dpotop
--- Berto 'd Sera albertoserra@ukr.net wrote:
Hoi!
My constructive position
So... It was told to Liviu, it gets told to YOU. It will be duly copied to all of you, as an auto answer.
- WHO of you spammers has found the time to call up
a regular vote on RO.wiki on becoming fully bilingual and giving warranties of acceptance of articles by the Transdnistrian minority? 2) Who of you will prove clever enough to do that BEFORE littering our mailboxes with your carnival?
Until you answer to that ANY Moldavian position (pro Cyrillic/anti-cyrillic/Acyrillic or whatever) will be just low quality toilet paper for my house. Or do you guys seriously think that we want to start a big internal war in RO.wiki just to please a couple of hysterical kids?
You want to make a change in someone else's house. You go there and ask the landlord for permission, before coming up here with your emotional scenes. It's called "respect" and "private property" in case you aren't familiar with the terms.
All the tears in the universe won't make a difference. GO TO WORK! No work, no consideration.
Bèrto 'd Sèra Personagi dl'ann 2006 për l'arvista american-a Time (tanme tuti vojàotri)
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1569514,00.html
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