On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:22:04 +1000, Tim Starling ts4294967296@hotmail.com wrote:
Mark Williamson wrote:
When did I say parents *will* teach their children Gothic as a first language? Plenty already have.
What's important to remember is that while in Western Europe, Gothic died quite some time ago, in the Crimea, Gothic died perhaps around the same time as Cornish did, or maybe even later, in Cornwall. And we have a Cornish Wikipedia...
According to our article on the Gothic language, Crimean Gothic is a different language to the older Gothic language known from the Codex Argenteus. I assumed we were talking about creating an encyclopedia based on the ancient language. Again according to our article on the subject, all that is known about the language comes from a single 16th century letter, giving a vocabulary of about 80 words. I fail to see how parents can teach their children a language of which only 80 words are known.
Theoretically, it is treated as a separate language although essentially it is more of a dialectal variety (they're very very close). Apparently there are sources available in the Ukraine (or so I have been told) with more information about Crimean Gothic which supposedly survived into the late 1800s in some rural agrarian communities; the letter you speak of is the only one readily accessible from Western European libraries I believe.
Then there is also Gotlandic. Sweden and Denmark both say it is a dialect of their respective national languages, but many Gotlanders claim that Gotlandic is an East Germanic language descended directly from (ie the modern offspring of) the Gothic language. How valid this is, I am not sure.
All that is known about Ancient Gothic comes from a bible translation plus a few fragments, which at least gives you enough to work with that you might plausibly consider writing an encyclopedia in it.
No, no, not really. All that is known about Gothic ("western gothic" rather than "ancient gothic" might be more appropriate) comes from 1. Wulfilas' translation of the bible (which you mentioned), 2. A great deal of religious commentaries and the like, and 3. A few legal contracts written in the language. However that is only counting the known documents in Gothic that are written *in the Gothic script* presumed to have been invented by Wulfilas (some people believe it already existed), there is also apparently a large body of texts in a slightly modified fuþark alphabet (Nordic runic alphabet).
Can you please provide a reference for your statement that 400 children are currently being raised in Gothic? I couldn't find anything with a quick web search. Which variety of Gothic are they taught?
No, I cannot provide a reference. But I do remember the movement was associated with an "M. Carver", and there were neologisms too ie for computer, email, electric bill, and the like.
--node