Arns has a really good point. This is based on precedent.
While we do try to follow certain conventions where possible, we do have some inconsistencies with standards. But we're not ISOpedia. Whether we conform to standards or not is our own choice.
In the past, we have generally had codes in the form of fiu-vro, bat-smg, and map-bms.
This is despite the fact that Võro, Samogitian, and Banyumasan are considered by the Ethnologue (and many others) to be dialects of Estonian, Lithuanian, and Javanese respectively.
We are not perfect.
Mark
On 17/10/06, Zordsdavini iz Litvy zordsdavini@gmail.com wrote:
Latgalian is going in the same way as Samogitian. Soon Samogitian will have iso. It will be ZOG. For now it use bat-smg. The latgalian will have iso, too, I hope because Latgalian have more tradition than Samogitian. When Samogitian wiki was starting we decided to use bat-smg. I think the best code for now is bat-ltg. To write about dictionary differences can proposer. I'll tell him.
Arns
2006/10/17, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, There are two issues.
- What/ is/ the code for the moment
- Get recognition for Latgalian as a language.
People have considered languages like Min-Nan and Yue as a dialect of Chinese for a long time. They HAD to use codes like zh-min-nan because this was necessary to comply with the standards. At this moment we have 7602 languages that are recognised in ISO-639-3. This is a big improvement over what was in ISO-639-2. The ISO-639-3 codes will become part of how languages are seen in the near future on the Internet. I am afraid that Latgalian is at this moment considered a dialect of Latvian. I am also sure that there are many other "languages/dialects" that are in a similar situation. Either because people are afronted because what it considers a language they consider a dialect or the other way around. There are also many people who consider something a dialect of for instance Italian while everybody knows that Italian was constructed after the unification of Italy and, that Italian is based on Florentine. The point I am making here there is a lot of confusion and there is a lot of posturing based on bad information. Having to base the code for Latgalian on Latvian is the best for the moment.
When you consider Latgalian a language, there are processes open to us to have this considered by organisations like Ethnologue and ISO. We have contacts that may help us achieve this. In order to get to that stage, it is necessary to jump through certain hoops. One of these is to demonstrate that there is indeed this difference that warrants Latgalian to be considered a language. Aspects of this are also showing literature and current use of the language. One of the first resources would be a Swadesh list where both Latvian and Latgalian can be compared.
FYI I am from an area of the Netherlands; Westfriesland where they used to speak a language; Westfries. It has a literature; it has a grammar it is not understood by people who speak Dutch. There are dialects of Westfries there are dictionaries of Westfries and there are revival societies that give cabaret performances in Westfries. At some stage I am sure that someone will ask for a Wikipedia in Westfries. I would not stop them. I KNOW that it takes relatively little effort to make the case for Westfries. In WiktionaryZ I would welcome dictionaries in Westfries or Latgalian... NB Westfries is not West Frisian .. which imho is a complete misnomer.
Thanks, GerardM
Zordsdavini iz Litvy wrote:
latgalian has long tradition of writing system. It was in 1918-1944
second
official language. Considering of dialect status is political. And there
are
very active people which are working on latgalian language life. It's dialect like neopolitanian or venecian. We say it's the language.
Arns
2006/10/17, GerardM gerard.meijssen@gmail.com:
Hoi, The code bat is a "collective code" for Baltic (other). Latgalian
however
is considered a dialect of Latvian and therefore it is not "other".
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=lav http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=bat Thanks, GerardM
On 10/17/06, Angela beesley@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/17/06, GerardM gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, According to Ethnologue Latgalian is a dialect of Latvian. From my
point
of
view, there is not even a proposed code to be used for your proposed Wikipedia that would be acceptable. Acceptable would be something
like
"lv-latg" or "lav-latg" ..
There's a test wiki at http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Test-wp/ltg The code bat-ltv has been suggested.
Angela
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