Well, folks, I've had enough for now. I can't continue these conversations, because they are taking far too much of my time; I couldn't do them justice if I wanted to. You also won't see me much anytime soon on Wikipedia itself. I really do apologize to those (few, no doubt) who thought I was a positive influence recently. I wish I had the time, energy, and patience to continue, and I hope you'll keep fighting the good fight.
I will continue to work on Sifter-l, though.
Larry -- "We have now sunk to a depth at which the re-statement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men." --George Orwell