Wikipedia-l October 2004

wikipedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org

70 participants
75 discussions

Open Mapping
by Anthony DiPierro 16 Oct '04

16 Oct '04

Daniel Mayer wrote: > The real issue are data; Only the U.S. has very comprehensive public domin > spatial data. The most comprehensive public domain spatial data is probably on the US, but there is an awful lot of it on the rest of the world too. I've been working recently with "VMAP Level 0" data, which is a 1.8 gig collection of worldwide GIS data at a 1:1,000,000 scale. Yes, the scale is poor compared with US data, but it's a good start. Additionally, if the project was able to get a little bit of funding, there is a whole bunch more worldwide data available through the Freedom of Information Act. All you have to do is pay the FOIA copying fee for the CDs and the data itself is public domain. > A separate WikiGIS/WikiMaps project (we own the .com and .org for > both names) would probably be needed to improve those data and create data for > the rest of the world (also serve the result to all Wikimedia projects as a > part of Wikimedia Commons). *That* would be fairly unique and difficult to do, > since I'm not aware of any such similar project based on the Internet. I'm strongly in favor of this. In fact, I've registered wikiteer.org and have already begun working on it. I was planning on completing a prototype before really pushing for support from Wikimedia, but if people are interested maybe we should get started right away. > " the whole idea of copyrights on spatial data seem to be absurd to me; how > could anybody claim to *own* any exact digital reproduction of the street > network for Paris or the exact location and shape of the Zaire River? " While I agree with your sentiment (I don't even think software should be copyrightable), the digital reproduction is by no means exact. As such, a large number of choices have to be made, both in terms of selection and in terms of how to most accurately reproduce the data. In this sense it's no more absurd than a copyright on a digital photo of a paris street. Anthony

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de:Wikipedia edges out Britannica (among others)
by Sj 15 Oct '04

15 Oct '04

The de: Wikipedia recently underwent its second professional content test, this time overseen by Die Zeit, Germany's leading weekly newspaper. And friends, this "popular dispenser of knowledge on the Internet", this "desert of text", is HOT. While it is "completely without [multi]media" and "does not support complex search queries", it "stands in first place when it comes to text content," receiving top aggregate marks in three broad content categories -- Natural Science and Technology, Humanities and Social Science, and Culture -- matched only by Encarta Professional. Moreover, its "lead in current events is a mile wide". This review was longer than the c't review -- seven terms in each of 21 fields -- but the article was shorter and less detailed. Die ZEIT was kind enough to extend the comparison to include both smaller German encyclopedias (Data Becker, aimed at a younger audience, and Universallexikon) and the English-language Britannica 2005 DVD. Britannica, she of the "legendary 32-volume set," took top marks in the sciences, but fell down when it came to sports and, most notably, current events. All the same, "the 165,000 well-sorted Web links alone are worth the price". As to that perennial bugbear, editorial responsibility, the reviewers tackle it with bold eloquence: "Those concerned with the quality of [Wikipedia] articles, because no established editorship takes responsibility for them, can rest at ease: we had most of the Wikipedia articles we examined judged separately by specialists in their respective fields, and they were thoroughly done. The texts still have gaps here and there, but they make up for it elsewhere with precise and detailed descriptions. And everyone can engage himself as a gap-filler: clicking on the link "edit this article" makes the reader an author." It's enough to make me want to be a first-time author all over again. Original article : http://www.zeit.de/2004/43/C-Enzyklop_8adien-Test (English translation available onli^B^B^B^B on request.) -- +sj+

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Chinese simplified-traditional conversion
by Jens Ropers 15 Oct '04

15 Oct '04

I recall that ages ago there was a long (and almost acrimonious) discussion regarding the possibilities (or lack thereof) of conversion between traditional and simplified Chinese. Well, I just ran across this app: >> http://www.ideographer.com/chineserewriter/index_en.shtml It's Shareware, but it may not be open source. Nevertheless, taking the thing for a spin and maybe bugging the author with one or two questions surely can't hurt. The app is for Mac OS X however, so for those poor souls^W^W of us who don't have access to a Mac, you could either try pearPC (but if you're only doing it to run this app, then that's using heavy artillery to aim for sparrows) or see if you can email the author anyway. I do have a Mac, but sadly I don't understand Chinese. Anyway, I just meant to sent this to the list *just in case* it's of use. -- ropers [[en:User:Ropers]] www.ropersonline.com

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Re: One Wikipedia - two scripts
by Erdal Ronahi 15 Oct '04

15 Oct '04

Hi Mark and everybody, Yes, Tahoma works (but is ugly and therefore not used on ar: for example) and is even more widespread than Unikurd Web. I just tried it on http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fontexample. The words there should look similar with the only difference being the diacriticals. I have not expressed myself correctly. The problem was not only the font, but the fact one cannot tell Wikipedia to use one font throughout an article if there are headings and lists. For the page name it doesn't work anyway. Something I forgot to mention was the edit window, words appear differently in the edit window and on the page or in the preview. An automatic script converter would be a fine thing, but there are also dialect differences. So an article in the two main dialects Kurmanci and Sorani would exist four times after automatic conversion into both scripts. At the moment we have three dialects represented which are only partly mutually intellegible. Until now all Sorani is written in arabic letter, all Kurmanci and Zazaki in latin letter with links to each other if the same article exists in different dialects. We like it that way, there were no objections yet. But because arabic and latin script are used for either of them, automatic script conversion would be fine on the long run. Technically it should be possible, as far as I know 1:1 conversion is possible. Erdal

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Print edition of the newsletter
by Sj 15 Oct '04

15 Oct '04

Would anyone actually want a print copy of the foundation newsletter? This was discussed recently; I think it would be a neat thing to have, but then I have a fondness for printed matter. (I wonder if those of us who frequent mailing lists are a balanced audience to ask...) http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AWikimedia_Quarto#Newsletter_in_Print -- +sj+

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Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese
by Gerard Meijssen 14 Oct '04

14 Oct '04

Hoi, In the past there have been heated debates about this subject, if you are interested in this subject, here is something uncontroversial for you; I am looking for the translations of these two terms in ANY language. Currently I know it in only three languages; Dutch, English and French. I would like to know it in all languages. This term is used to indicate in wiktionary that a translation of a word is in one of these two methods of writing. As such it is really usefull when I have this information. You can reply to me, but you can also be really bold and edit the pages on the nl:wiktionary. [[wikt:nl:eenvoudig Chinees]] [[wikt:nl:traditioneel Chinees]] Thanks, GerardM

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One Wikipedia - two scripts
by Erdal Ronahi 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

Hi there! We on ku: have a problem. Kurdish uses two different scripts, latin and arabic. You can see both on the main page at http://ku.wikipedia.org. To keep the Kurdish Wikipedia together we would like to have both scripts in one Wikipedia. But there are some problems: * Though unicode supports the Arabic-letter Kurdish alphabet, very few fonts do. In the internet a special font named "Unikurd Web" is the de-facto standard for used on almost all websites. We use a template on every page that enforces the use of this font, but that does not work for the headings. Therefore there are wrong letters in the headings. See http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallewe for an example. The letter that looks like a "L" that has turned around is from a different font. Can this be solved with a global style sheet or something similar? The font is compatible with Unicode, so Arabic of Farsi words would not be harmed. To solve this problem would be the most important thing, because then all texts will be readable. Other minor problems: * The font ennforcing template {{rtl}} must be repeated after each heading. That will probably solve with the first problem. * Dotted lists cross the right border when used on right-to-left pages. (Also an example on http://ku.wikipedia.org/wiki/mallewe) Thanks, Erdal

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Need urgent help! (Wikipedia)
by info＠konservativ.se 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

Hello! And greetings from Sweden! I would like to get in contact with any of the international organizers/leaders of the Wikipedia project! Over here in Sweden, I have problems with the correct information of political parties. Different political groups apparently rearrange each others pages. >From my point of view, I would like to secure the proper information in the interest of the public and the democratic community! Thus each party or political group should have control of their own pages, rather than to let their political opponents have the control. Who could I discuss this topic with? All the best! And good luck with a great project! Carl-Johan Swaerdenheim, SWEDEN The Swedish Conservative Party

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Fw: [Wikipedia-l] New Wikipedia langage solresol
by oboenfan 11 Oct '04

11 Oct '04

----- Original Message ----- From: "oboenfan" <oboenfan(a)hotmail.com> To: "Rowan Collins" <rowan.collins(a)gmail.com> Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 1:27 AM Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] New Wikipedia langage solresol Hi Rowan Thank you very much to you personally. Your message did really comfort me last week. But I did find this matter really absurd: The administration of Wikipedia looks as a really terrible giant animal and to occupy too much a lot of people. This forum is alone a surprising kind to loose the time... I don't give up and realize without discussion with a lot of people and loosing of time a dictionary and all my other projects concerning old, menaced and artificial languages at the new anarchopedia. I did create French, German main pages, Spanish will follow in the next hours, and Interlingue, Solresol, Frater and more will follow in the next days.All that is new. I have to rectify a lot of text errors in a second time but it exists now. I is a good work for a short week where I have to go to my professional occupations. I did observe different problems in the approach of the things at Wikipedia and I work at anarchopedia that this don't appears in the new project. I think my technical approach of dictionary better and start for this reason a lot of languages myself. My first word, the first entry in the new multi language dictionary was of course a word in "a", naturally the word "anarchy". And if you compare the content of 2 dictionaries you can see a completely other view of our world. Anarchy is not conform to the bad definition in Wikipedia... At the letter "I" I will introduce in the next days as first word the word "idealism" ;-) Less bureaucracy (be quite: I didn't redefine in the first time at the letter "b" the word "bureaucracy" - "birth" is really more important!) Je veux remercier très spécialement Anthere, mon fier concitoyen, pour son intervention contre mes petits efforts anarchistes (je ne pensais pas le moins du monde à une telle définition de mes efforts il y a seulement 8 jours) car sans cette petite querelle vraiment juste au bon moment, je n'aurais jamais fait connaissance à cette date du projet des autres anarchistes! Mes visions de mon pays dans le continent qui l'héberge et surtout mes visions du rôle de mon continent en tant que réalité politique et sociale ne semble pas être totalement équivalentes aux vôtres! Perhaps is this the decisive reason why a Wikipedia can't be enough. Yours truly François > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rowan Collins" <rowan.collins(a)gmail.com> > To: <wikipedia-l(a)wikimedia.org>; <oboenfan(a)hotmail.com> > Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 6:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] New Wikipedia langage solresol > > > > Francois, > > please don't give up so easily. If you truly believe that this is > > something worth doing and encouraging, it should take more than a few > > people saying "maybe" rather than "yes" to make you give up. Nobody > > here has said "no" to your proposals; if you think you can make this > > work, then have courage and try to make it work, even when it seems > > difficult. I will try to address and discuss some of your current > > concerns below. > >

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wikimedia meetup 2005 - final candidates
by Elisabeth Bauer 10 Oct '04

10 Oct '04

Hiho, As announced on meta-wiki, the selection round for the city where the wikimedia meetup will take place ended today. We compiled a list with the final candidates on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_meetup_2005/City_Candidate_List * Amsterdam/Rotterdam, Netherlands * Berlin, Germany * Cluj-Napoca, Romania * Dublin, Ireland * Frankfurt am Main, Germany * Ljubljana, Slovenia To make the final decision we asked some well known wikipedians from countries around the world. The people you'll have to bribe ;-) are: Angela, Anthere, Jimbo, Danny, Krzysztof P. Jasiutowicz, Tomos, Brion Vibber, Oscar and Gerard Meijssen, Arno Lagrange and elian. I want to invite these people and all the wikipedians who proposed one of the finalists and are willing to act as local coordinators for a first meeting on IRC. I propose Sunday 17th October, 18:00 UTC, if you have troubles with this date, state this on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_meetup_2005 please. greetings, elian

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Wikipedia-l October 2004