Hello, Brion
>Unless a better count system is proposed, I will replace
the comma check
>with a greater-than-zero-size check within twelve hours.
You have a good point. Every one knows current counting
system is silly and need overwhole. I have no objection at
all.
Only my concern is that we should not make a decision in the
place where people can't participate. Yes, every one can
discuss here but only if they speak English. It seems most
of wikipedians in ja.wikipedia knows almost nothing about
what is going on the administration stage like here or
village pump in en.wikipedia.
If you are talking about only en.wikipedia (since this
mailing list is in English), forgive me about my
misunderstanding.
My suspecion is that we should stop using universal system
for all of editions. Different languages need different
coordination. The couting artciels should depend on the
language of edition. Therefore, the discussion here should
be irrelevant and we should move this to each wikipedia's
village pump.
-------
Takuya Murata
takusi(a)manjiro.net
> Unless a better count system is proposed, I will
> replace the comma check
> with a greater-than-zero-size check within twelve
> hours.
I strongly support this, although I recommend that an
article be at least 50 bytes. **** the current
article count. If we say we have more articles than
we really do, then we're not being honest. If the
article count falls, it falls. Also, I'm going to go
ahead and start deleting those articles with zero-size
on the Esperanto Wikipedia.
Chuck
=====
Learn Esperanto! - http://www.lernu.net/
Enciklopedio: http://eo.wikipedia.org/
__________________________________________________
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Could we have a limit of 50 edits for anonymous users?
I just don't think anonymous users should be making
this many edits in one day... what do you think?
...and yes, this is happening in the Eo Wikipedia!
Chuck
=====
Learn Esperanto! - http://www.lernu.net/
Enciklopedio: http://eo.wikipedia.org/
___________________________________________________
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I have a question about the GNU FDL. What is meant by "the work"? If I took
a picture from Wikipedia and incorporated it into one page on an existing
website, would just that page, my entire website, or neither (just the
picture) be released under GNU FDL?
Matt
Stevertigo wrote: - ---
Propose change:
:"WARNING: This page is X kilobytes long; Ideal length for articles is
between 30-50K. Should this page grow longer, please consider breaking the
page into smaller
ctions" -[[User:Stevertigo|<strong>豎眩</Strong>]] p.s. will
post to mailist..
MAV::"Ideal length" would ''not'' be in the 30 - 50 KB range. Anything above
20KB of readable text tries the patience of readers and anything above 28KB
has technical limitations for users on slow computers and/or use certain
browsers. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 00:32 Mar 7, 2003 (UTC)
SUSAN:The policy of putting new text at the bottom tries the patience of
anyone with a slow computer. [[User:Susan Mason|Susan Mason]]
STEVERTIGO::Brion? on the Wikipedia-l said that 30-50 was the range... I
thought it suspect at first, but Im not sure where the range really is...
this was an issue on 911.wik where Martin and Elo? fought over how whether
the 911 list should be broken up - I suggested why not both? If you cant
deal with... you have options still, and that list can be broken up by
category... this begs the question of course... lists are better dealt with
by software... Either way, it seems like the warning needs some clarifying
and consensus... i just signed to wiki-en - ill repost this
there... -Stevertigo
I'm posting this to wikipedia-l as it concerns all Wikipedias; albums are
in that respect language independent.
As you may know, freedb.org provides a huge open content database of
existing music CDs. Overall, the statistics page currently lists 882172
individual CDs. For each album it provides the name, band, track
information (including length) and sometimes other details such as the
genre.
In part because FreeDB already exists, I believe we need a strict policy
against mere CD database entries for Wikipedia that provide no additional
information about an album. If there are no objections, I will create the
respective policy page on the English Wikipedia.
My reasoning:
1) If we imported all entries from FreeDB into Wikipedia, some facilities
of Wikipedia would become unusable. "Random page" would lose much of its
current value. The search would be massively slowed (because the database
size would drastically increase) and return many useless hits, because
song titles use pretty much every word in every language. Possible future
facilities such as an "Ancient pages" feature to view the pages that have
been edited the longest time ago would also be drastically impaired.
2) Much of the imported information would be neglected -- FreeDB database
entries are generated automatically by running an application on a
computer while a CD is inserted, which is why there are so many of them.
We cannot and should not keep up with this process. We would only
duplicate existing work.
3) Wikipedia is not a mirror for source material. As far as only album
data is entered, in my opinion the criterion of "source material" is
satisfied.
4) Not allowing the import of FreeDB entries but allowing manual entry of
album track lists is even worse. We create an extremely incomplete list,
and encourage our users to duplicate existing work.
What we should do instead, I think, is this:
1) Make a clear policy that pages which only contain track lists and
nothing else of value can be deleted (they still need to be put on the
"Votes for deletion" page or equivalent on other Wikipedias, but they can
be deleted quickly).
2) Make another policy that pages about bands should *not* contain links
to the individual albums. These links should be created on demand, not for
all album titles. Instead, add an external link to the FreeDB query for
that band to the band page.
3) Supply criteria for what kind of pages about albums are acceptable --
provide good examples. For instance, a detailed discussion of the music on
a particular album, with excerpted lyrics, notes etc. is certainly
acceptable. In such a discussion, a track listing could also be added to
the article.
Please note: This is not at all intended as an offense against the Albums
WikiProject. Good, comprehensive articles about albums should most
definitely be added. What I believe we should avoid is to turn Wikipedia
into Everything2 and to import everything that could possibly at some
point be turned into an article. This is also not a general policy against
bot import of articles, only in this case, where there is already a
collaborative open content project that fulfills the need perfectly and no
point for us to duplicate its work.
Even if this policy is not implemented, I will point out at this juncture
that I am strongly opposed to an import of the FreeDB data, should that
ever come up. But to be consistent and to avoid unnecessary work, I think
we should apply these rules even to existing, manually added album pages.
Regards,
Erik
On Tuesday 04 March 2003 09:45 pm, Toby Bartels wrote:
> Is 142 (that is, the person that's been posting from
> several 142.177.xxx.xxx addresses lately) banned?
> If so, from which wikis?
>
> The ideas that make me ask:
> * 142 is suspected (strongly) of being 24. But 24 was unbanned.
> Also, is the evidence of their identity conclusive (say to Jimbo)?
> * When Lir was banned from [[en:]], Jimbo explicitly said
> that she wasn't banned from [[m:]] (and thus might play chess there).
>
> I'm asking for facts, not for a discussion about 142
> (although I'm sure that other people will take the opportunity).
> What I very specifically want to know is whether 142 is banned from [[m:]].
>
>
> -- Toby
I'm copying my response to the above on [[meta:Talk:Main_Page]]:
:Yes - I was the one who unbanned 24. Ironic huh? IMO 24 and 142 are one and
the same (at least the majority of 142s - esp the ones that edit meta). The
topics 142 writes on, the use of meta (esp. telling is that 142 links to many
pages that 24 wrote or substantially contriubted to on meta), and also the
implied threats and severe dislike of Larry, Jimbo and other 'cabal' members
all are very similar to 24. There is also the fact that 142s isp is in the
same part of Canada that 24 is from. But being 24 shouldn't be reason to
extend any ban since 24 was unbanned. What matters the most is what 142 has
been doing and we do know that one person using one of the 142 IPs made an
implied threat to me (specifically a death threat via a [[en:straw man|straw
man]]). IMO, making such a threat is enough to be banned from the entire
project for a long time (permanently if 142 and 24 are the same person).
IIRC 24's threat on Larry (which was for 'great bodily injury' and not death
IIRC) was on meta but that was enough to also get him banned from en.wiki.
This is perhaps a better question for the mailing list.
--[[User:Maveric149|Maveric149]]
To which 142 responds:
::There are several false claims in the above, but, not my problem to sort
them out. The response to Maveric149's assertion that he's been personally
threatened is already on his talk page - saying people deserve things isn't
the same as saying you're going to do it to them - we are not all judges or
thugs or paranoids or Americans (same thing). As to agreeing with 24,
considering the alternatives, what choice is there? I suppose everyone that
thinks this project needs better [[governance]] is some kind of criminal or
traitor to the regime. The real answer is to ban Maveric149 and other
abusive sysops on a rotating basis, so they don't get such a sense of their
own invicibility. Go ahead and ban, loser, it makes up for your lack of
potency in person, I'm sure.
And me again:
:::Ah name calling - it only reflects negatively on you and tends to discredit
your arguments. Your continued insistence on being anonymous (therefore
making it difficult for other contributors to contact you and for our system
of checks and balances to work), throwing insults around, and making implied
threats only tends to discredit you and your ideas. If you were serious about
actually changing Wikipedia for the better you would work with the community
and not against it. You would also be nice and respectful to other users by
not constantly provoking them into flame wars. When you anger somebody it
doesn't really matter how correct your arguments are because the person you
have angered will protest your ideas because you made them.
--[[User:Maveric149|Maveric149]]
WikiKarma
The usual at [[March 2]]
> We can
> probably get away with it, since we have an
> educational goal, no
> commercial interests, and are not an attractive
> target for lawsuits,
> but selling (extracts from) Wikipedia in any form is
> made almost
> impossible by these fair use landmines.
One of the users of WikipediaNL found that when one searches for the word 'het'
on WikipediaNL, only hits in the article title are found, none in the article
text. When doing a similar search on the English version, it behaves normal.
Apparently common words are being excluded from full-text searches.
My questions:
* What are the criteria to exclude such words from searches?
* Is it possible to get for a language a list of such excluded words?
Andre Engels