Wikipedia-l December 2002

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138 discussions

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by Björn Lindqvist 12 Dec '02

12 Dec '02

Hello. Im a long time reader first time writer. I think this list is kinda boring and has way to high volume. Im not interested in moderator nomiations and meta discussions about flaming and who is a flamer. Im arrogant sorry. :-) So my suggestion is why not creature more mailing lists? I for one would love a list about important happenings in the wikipedia project and separate lists for differenct subjects it would be really cool. //Björn

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BBS vs mailing list (was Re: Moderator nominations)
by Brion Vibber 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 14:55, The Cunctator wrote: > On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 17:45, Brion Vibber wrote: > > On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 14:36, The Cunctator wrote: > > > At least 90% of our problems would be solved, without adding hierarchies > > > and censorship, if we just moved to a bulletin board system. > > > > What are the problems that this would solve, and how would it solve > > them? > > > It would solve the basic scaling problems > * the problem of flooded inboxes Present solution: Filter your mailbox; put lists in their own folders. (But not everyone has a mailreader that does filtering, or knows how to set it up if they do.) > * the problem of lack of threading Present solution: Use a threaded mailreader. (But not everyone has a mailreader that does threading, or knows has to turn it on if they do.) > * the problem of ephemerality of content (by making it easy to refer to > earlier threads) Present solution: Hyperlink to the archives on the web; most mailreaders these days will let you click on a URL. (But it's harder to reply to the original post; it's hard to search the archives; URLs are long.) > These scaling problems underlie the current tensions causing the > upswells of conflict on the lists. > > If the bbs were integrated with the Wikipedia system (that is, it > recognized users and/or allowed people to make wiki links) it would > solve > * the problem of obscurity and Not sure what you mean here -- perhaps easier ability to link from Wikipedia pages to particular threads in the bbs? How so? > * the problem of not being able to link directly to [[Wikipedia]] Now, that _would_ be nice. > * the problem of not being able to coordinate Talk page discussion with > list-based discussions I'm not sure how the bbs helps here. It's trivial to include a URL to a talk page in a list message, and URLs to bbs threads are about as obscure as URLs to the mailing list archive. A web board is also inimical to offline reading (as is the 'pedia, at present) and doesn't integrate well with people who have an organized way to deal with massive amounts of e-mail. Possible solution: smtp<->bbs or nntp<->bbs gateway. There's some potential here though; feel free to set up a page on meta with some specific proposals. -- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

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RE: [Wikipedia-l] Offense at repeated slander on the Wikipedia-L list by Clutch
by Poor, Edmund W 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

If I were a Moderator, I would give Jonathan a "day off" from the list. You have been very patient and cooperative, though, Robert. Ed Poor --not a moderator, just an admin for wikiEN-l

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Offense at repeated slander on the Wikipedia-L list by Clutch
by Robert Kaiser 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

Jonathan Walther <krooger(a)debian.org> wrote:> Jimmy, I caught RK pulling 'facts' out of his ass, and provided a link >to it. Bias is one thing, but outright fabrication should be taken >seriously. Do you take it seriously? Do we as an encyclopedia take it >seriously? I personally take it very seriously. This is outright libel. Jonathan is not only lying, he has a public history of flaming both me and other Wikipedia contributors with virulently anti-Semitic statements. He has created some rather hateful lies about how Wikipedia is turning into "Zionipedia" (itself a blatantly racist statement); he has some clinically paranoid delusions about how "Zionists" are warping "Zionipedia". The facts, however, show no such thing. If people take the time to read the Talk pages that Jonathan is contributing to, they will see that I also make a good faith effort to work with others to create NPOV articles - for instance, see my recent contributions to the Book of Revelations article and the Book of Mormon article. In contrast, note that virtually everyone is opposed to his virulently hateful attacks, and his distastfeful apologetics for anti-Semitism within Wikipedia articles. I have stayed silent on this issue long enough. Time and time again he is slandering me on this forum, and it has reached the point of libel. Stop it. And stop it now. If people on Wikipedia cannot act like civilized human beings, then leave. But don't use this forum for repeated libel. Robert (RK)

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RE: [Wikipedia-l] Moderation
by Poor, Edmund W 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

> The moderator doesn't have to approve every posting. Just watch the > list, toot the lifeguard whistle from time to time when swimmers go > too far from shore or bother others, correspond privately with problem > posters, have the power to check mail from a problem poster and use it > wisely, including permanently sending their mail to the bit bucket if > necessary. > > Tom P. > O88 That's exactly what the mailing list software is set up to do. I just took a look at the administrative website, and I'm prepared at the drop of a hat to implement a Moderation Policy. All I need is a list of who's on the Moderator Team. I suggest we bat it around for a few more days, though. No sense in making a quick decision. Ed Poor

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moderator nominations
by koyaanisqatsi＠nupedia.com 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

Ed Wrote: >Here is my initial and unofficial tally of who wants whom to be a list moderator: <snip> >KQ >* for: Toby, Larry, Ed *opposed: KQ best, kq

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Re: [Wikipedia-l] Moderator nominations
by koyaanisqatsi＠nupedia.com 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

Brion Wrote: >On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 12:47, Poor, Edmund W wrote: >> Here is my initial and unofficial tally of who wants whom to be a list moderator: >[..] >> Brion Vibber >> * for: Erik, Ed, Larry > >I'll pass -- as it is, my Wikipedia time is mostly taken up maintaining >the software and I don't have time to contribute content. I read the list backwards--I see now. Erik, Ed, and Larry voted for Brion, not the other way around. Apologies, Ed; I've misunderstood your post. Hangdog, kq

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Re: [WikiEN-l] Moderator nominations
by koyaanisqatsi＠nupedia.com 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

Ed Wrote: >Here is my initial and unofficial tally of who wants whom to be a list moderator: <snip> >KQ >* for: Toby, Larry, Ed Ed, I did *not* tell you this, and I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. I have not discussed moderation with anyone. kq

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tit for tat
by Poor, Edmund W 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. --Ghandi A tooth for a tooth makes the world's dentists rich. -- my dentist Uncle Ed

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RE: [Wikipedia-l] Moderation
by Poor, Edmund W 11 Dec '02

11 Dec '02

As far as I know, the mailing list software is already set up to support moderation, either by a single individual or a team -- exactly as previously discussed. The only issues are: * should wikiEN-l or wikipedia-l (or both) be moderated * who ought to be moderator(s) * what should the rules of participation be I bet the first rule we'd all like to have is that a Moderator should not use "moderation" to as a weapon in debate (!) -- just as a sysop should not. Ed Poor (just a list administrator -- not a moderator)

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Wikipedia-l December 2002