Wikipedia-l October 2002

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81 participants
419 discussions

Re: Call for a vote (was: Moving the wikis)
by Daniel Mayer 17 Oct '02

17 Oct '02

On Wednesday 16 October 2002 09:31 am Jimmy Wales wrote: > Yeah, it's too soon for me, too. And voting bugs me too. > > Maybe we should just relax about this and revisit it a couple of > months from now, while everyone chews over the consequences? Since the issue of es.wiki/EL reunification was preemptively decided for us by EL there is no longer any real urgency to do this sooner rather than later. I still vote that all the languages should have their URLs in the same syntax and we should have a 'gateway page' for the whole project at www.wikipedia.org but this can wait until the next major change to the software or we set-up the non-profit (whichever comes first). > It doesn't seem like a clean consensus is developing yet . It's just getting bogged-down in details. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav)

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Re: Enciclopedia Libre
by Daniel Mayer 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

Juan Antonio Ruiz Rivas wrote: > Hello everybody, greetings from "Enciclopedia > Libre". > > First of all I want to clarify that general sense > from people in EL is about friendship and goodwill > towards Wikipedia project, though some of > us disagree about some questions concerned to > Wikipedia we are talking about in the past. > > We were talking and voting about the reunification > as we made at >http://enciclopedia.us.es/wiki.phtml?title=Enciclopedia:Retorno_a_Wikipedia > and finally we have decided to stay in the same > server here at Sevilla and under the name of > "Enciclopedia Libre", nevertheless we do > not discard the possibility on returning > Wikipedia in the future I'm only speaking for myself and how I see things; It's great that your project is keeping open the possibility of reunification but with each passing day the two separate projects grow apart as articles become distinct from each other. This will make reunification in the future increasingly more difficult. Since the Spanish Wikipedia software is so badly broken right now there are very few contributors and there really isn't that much difference between the Spanish Wikipedia today compared with the database you took to Seville many months ago. But now the Spanish Wikipedia is going to get Phase III software and I foresee much more activity there as first bi- and multi-lingual people from the other Wikipedia languages start contributing and then as more native speakers join es.wiki. We would be much stronger together rather than apart. I am saddened that your community decided to vote on this before we were even done discussing the matter. I feel we were moving in a very positive direction, reaching consensus, and trying to change Wikipedia so that it will be agreeable to you (and more agreeable to the current non-English Wikipedias) but the pre-emptive vote has halted our reunification efforts before we even had a chance to formally ask you to rejoin (or even start any negotiations for that matter). > (whenever people in Wikipedia agree) We were reaching consensus on this before the vote ended the process. The emerging consensus I feel was, "Yes we want you back" and "Yes we are willing to change in order to make this possible". I for one have been doing some serious soul-searching to see why there was a fork in the first place and exploring ways that we could address those issues in a reasonable way. But your project has made its decision and I have to respect and accept that. I also wish your project well and hope the Spanish Wikipedia and EL can be friends and exchange content without hard feelings (we need to discuss how to best do this). > and our wish is about > collaboration, talking and good relationships. I also hope that we can collaborate and have a good working relationship but competition for Spanish-speaking users may overshadow this if we are not careful. Very soon there will be two different very active wiki communities both trying to write a free content, neutral focus, encyclopedia in Spanish. Right now there really is only one active community, yours. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com

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Re: Re: Moving the wikis (en.wikipedia.org vs
by Daniel Mayer 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

>Daniel Mayer wrote: >> >> I kinda like the idea of doing the reverse now; >> have all the language wikis at www.wikipedia.org >> via the syntax www.wikipedia.org/xx/ where xx is >> the language code. Brion is floating a similar >> idea over at the meta >> http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_language_integration >> However his proposal leaves-out the www which I >> think is a mistake since www.foobar.org is >> universally recognized as an Internet address >> whereas forbar.org is not. > >(anything).com is universally recognized as an > internet address. Is .org really so unknown? > Never been to slashdot.org? Yes I visit /. daily. Our motto here isn't "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters", I think our audience is not as technically inclined as the /. crowd is on average. www.string.org also is nicely balanced and elegant looking whereas string.org is one-sided and looks like a file name (to me at least). www.string.org vs string.org >> I like this idea because every language will >> then have the promotional benefit of being at >> the www.wikipedia.org address and no language >> is left at the rather odd looking, IMO, >> xx.wikipedia.org. This also improves the url >> for the English Wikipedia; instead of being at >> the redundant www.wikipedia.org/wiki/ it will >> be at the cleaner www.wikipedia.org/en/ > >Still got the redundant www. Www provides nothing >that http:// doesn't, and in today's webcentric >Internet little that .com, .org, .de, .foobar >doesn't. But http:// is terrifying to many of the technically uninclined -- therefore having the www buffer is nice. If we were a techy website I would have to agree that the www is not needed and is wasted keystrokes, but we are not a techy website (or at least we shouldn't be). >But, if everyone loves the wuh wuh wuh, I can't >complain too much. Both ways can be allowed >whichever one is canonical. > >-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com) This isn't that important so I will yield to the popular will as well without much protest. -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com

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Re: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Call for a vote (was: Moving the wikis)
by lcrocker＠nupedia.com 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

>> All right, then, let's vote: >> 1. That the English language wikipedia step down one level to >> www.wikipedia.org/en/ and >> 2. That www.wikipedia.org be the language-neutral front page, >> with links to the wikipedias of each language. (1) I vote NO. (2) Voting is a bad idea in the first place.

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JW edit war
by Poor, Edmund W 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

The talk page for "Jehovah's witnesses" had 909 accesses just now. Is that a record for a talk page? What's all the fuss about? Ed Poor Family Federation for World Peace (aka Unification Church, aka The Moonies)

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Redirect detector
by Magnus Manske 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

On Lee's test site (http://www.piclab.com/wikitest/wiki.phtml), I have patched the stub detector so that /when the stub detector is active/, it will also show links to redirects with a yellowish background. Should I use that on the live software 1. not at all 2. only when the stub detector is activated 3. for all logged-in users as an user option, off by default 4. for everybody The most simple implementation is #2, and it doesn't require an additional database query. That's what I will do if I don't here good arguments against it ;-) Magnus

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Moving the wikis (en.wikipedia.org vs www.wikipedia.org/xx/)
by Daniel Mayer 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

tarquin wrote: >At any rate, have we agreed on the move >from www. to en. ? I kinda like the idea of doing the reverse now; have all the language wikis at www.wikipedia.org via the syntax www.wikipedia.org/xx/ where xx is the language code. Brion is floating a similar idea over at the meta http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_language_integration . However his proposal leaves-out the www which I think is a mistake since www.foobar.org is universally recognized as an Internet address whereas forbar.org is not. I like this idea because every language will then have the promotional benefit of being at the www.wikipedia.org address and no language is left at the rather odd looking, IMO, xx.wikipedia.org. This also improves the url for the English Wikipedia; instead of being at the redundant www.wikipedia.org/wiki/ it will be at the cleaner www.wikipedia.org/en/ -- Daniel Mayer (aka mav) __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com

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Re: [Intlwiki-l] Enciclopedia Libre
by Stephen Gilbert 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

Juan, Thank you for your message. I took the liberty of forwarding it to the wikipedia-l mailing list. We're glad that the EL is generally friendly in feeling toward Wikipedia. There are a few comments over there that seem to be based on bad feelings toward us; I'm happy that they don't reflect the feelings of the majority of your contributors. We have also been discussing cooperation between our projects, and the possible reunification. I'm not a spokesman for all of Wikipedia, but the general agreement here seems to be working toward bringing the two projects closer together while maintaining our own Spanish articles at http://es.wikipedia.com (soon to be changed to .org). I think you'll like the Phase III software, and I hope you can get it up and running. You might be interested in wikitech-l, the software developers' mailing list. Regards, Stephen Gilbert --- Juan Antonio Ruiz Rivas <juanan(a)us.es> wrote: > Hello everybody, greetings from "Enciclopedia > Libre". > > First of all I want to clarify that general sense > from people in EL is > about friendship and goodwill towards Wikipedia > project, though some of > us disagree about some questions concerned to > Wikipedia we are talking > about in the past. > > We were talking and voting about the reunification > as we made at > http://enciclopedia.us.es/wiki.phtml?title=Enciclopedia:Retorno_a_Wikipe > dia and finally we have decided to stay in the same > server here at > Sevilla and under the name of "Enciclopedia Libre", > nevertheless we do > not discard the possibility on returning Wikipedia > in the future > (whenever people in Wikipedia agree) and our wish is > about > collaboration, talking and good relationships. > > I think the time talk us about our community finally > approaching > themselves, depending on mutual desires and the way > both projects shall > take. > > About Phase III Program I am trying to test in over > an old PC but I am > fighting against Linux and time. > > I read this mail list each day and wish to > collaborate in embassy > projects between Wikipedia and EL, you can write to > me in English or > Spanish at juanan(a)us.es. > > Best regards, > > juanan &8.) > > Juan Antonio Ruiz Rivas > Centro de Formaci�n PAS > Universidad de Sevilla > tfno. 954487458 > juanan(a)us.es > ---- > Hola a todos, saludos desde la Enciclopedia Libre. > > Ante todo me gustar�a aclarar que el sentir general > de la gente que > trabaja en EL es de amistad y buena voluntad hacia > el proyecto de > Wikipedia en donde la mayor�a comenzamos, aunque > algunos discrepemos con > algunas cuestiones relativas a Wikipedia que ya han > sido comentadas en > otras ocasiones. > > Hemos estado discutiendo y votando sobre la > posibilidad de volver a > Wikipedia tal como se plante� en > http://enciclopedia.us.es/wiki.phtml?title=Enciclopedia:Retorno_a_Wikipe > dia y finalmente nos hemos decidido a seguir aqu� de > momento tal como > estamos, sin descartar la idea de volver alg�n d�a a > Wikipedia e > intentando estrechar lazos en la medida de lo > posible. > > Creo que el tiempo dir� si finalmente nos acercamos > o alejamos de > Wikipedia, esto depender� del inter�s que pongamos > las dos partes y del > rumbo que tomen ambos proyectos. > > En cuanto a la fase III del software estoy > intentando hacer unas pruebas > en un PC un poquillo viejo y a�n tengo alg�n > problemilla con la > instalaci�n del Linux. > > Sigo normalmente las discusiones en esta lista y me > gustar�a participar > en el proyecto de embajadas que se est� poniendo en > marcha, pod�is > escribirme en ingl�s o en espa�ol a la direcci�n > juanan(a)us.es. > > Saludos a todos, > > juanan &8.) > > Juan Antonio Ruiz Rivas > Centro de Formaci�n PAS > Universidad de Sevilla > tfno. 954487458 > juanan(a)us.es > > > _______________________________________________ > Intlwiki-l mailing list > To unsubscribe and otherwise manage your list > subscription, please go to > http://www.nupedia.com/mailman/listinfo/intlwiki-l > Intlwiki-l(a)nupedia.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More http://faith.yahoo.com

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User check idea
by Andre Engels 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

Could it be made possible to look at the User changes using just the first part of the user's IP number rather than a complete one? Yhat way, people who have a dynamical IP can be checked for all their changes rather than just those of their last login. Especially useful for those who are not really vandals, but do leave cleaning up to do after them. Andre Engels

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Re: Re: [Intlwiki-l] Re: [Wikipedia-l] en.wikipedia.org vs www.wikipedia.org and the Wikipedia family
by lcrocker＠nupedia.com 16 Oct '02

16 Oct '02

>> When writing on Phase II, I was thinking about little flags for the >> different languages. We'd just need a merged GB/US flag for >> en.wikipedia.com... > I don't like flags, and I guess many others also don't like them. > If we really need some kind picture to represent a language, then > please let's choose an image of a famous person who used this > language to produce something important/famous/extraordinary/... I don't like the idea of a "portal" page at all, and the idea of using flags is even worse; flags represent /countries/, and the very concept of "country" is something I want nothing to do with. I do, however, like the idea of representing languages with images of famous contributors in that language; this could be used in lots of places writing about Wikipedia. I'd suggest Shakespeare, Hugo, Cervantes as the obvious English/French/Spanish ones. I don't know who would be appropriate for the others.

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Wikipedia-l October 2002