"We are actively looking for a professional threat- assessment firm to consult regarding the full range of possible threats we might have to deal with in holding and attending the conference." <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l>

So is it really worth having the conference there if steps like this are necessary? --John Reaves On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Mike Godwin &lt;mgodwin(a)wikimedia.org&gt; wrote: > "We are actively looking for a professional threat- > assessment firm to consult regarding the full range of possible > threats we might have to deal with in holding and attending the > conference." <https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l> _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Marc, Oldak said exactly what I was meaning, so his reply is probably more elegant than mine. By "flaunting their sexuality," I was referring to being openly gay with a partner, holding hands, sharing a room, that kind of thing. I guess "flaunting" was a bad choice of words, "publicly displaying" would probably be closer to my point. Sorry for any confusion. -Chad On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 7:59 AM, Marc Riddell

wrote: > on 3/6/08 7:34 AM, Chad at innocentkiller(a)gmail.com wrote: > >> I would say so. Mike seems to think that as long as the >> wikimedian gay community doesn't flaunt their sexuality >> (as gay men in the US seem to do all the time), they >> should be fine. >> >> -Chad > > Chad, what exactly does "flaunt their sexuality" mean to you? > > Marc Riddell > > > >> >> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 11:37 PM, John Reaves

>>> So is it really worth having the conference there if steps like

>>> necessary? >>> >>> --John Reaves >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 8:32 PM, Mike Godwin &lt;mgodwin(a)wikimedia.org&gt;

>>> >>>> "We are actively looking for a professional threat- >>>> assessment firm to consult regarding the full range of possible >>>> threats we might have to deal with in holding and attending the >>>> conference."

>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> foundation-l mailing list >>> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >>> Unsubscribe:

>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe:

> > > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:

> _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Please look up "flaunting" in the dictionary. Your post is the first time I have encountered a gay man seriously suggest that other gay men "flaunt their sexuality", and I am surprised. Such phraseology is encountered almost exclusively in anti-gay parts of society.

On Mar 7, 2008, at 4:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Considering that the > number of articles is slowly becoming more balanced and > considering > that > even the English Wikipedia has contributors all over the world, > there is no > such thing as an "obvious" location to choose from. > Thanks, > GerardM Being that there is no "obvious location", Gerard, then there is no reason to pick a location that has significant drawbacks. There are many European, North American, even Asian locations that are accessible to the vast majority of the world, in some cases probably less expensively than Alexandria, (since places that are major international airport hubs usually have the cheapest airfares, and generally do not require a connecting flight ticket), that are more free and open societies, without as intense worries about censorship, terrorism, or implicitly supporting human rights violations. Toronto, DC, New York, Berlin, Paris, London, Tokyo, Seoul, San Francisco, Moscow, Vienna, Prague, etc. If there is no "obvious location" to choose from, why not any of these places that are safer, do not require out attendees to pretend they are not gay or jewish, do not discriminate against women, etc. -Dan _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ foundation-l

If you and I disagree on what is obvious, and other people on this list do as well, you can hardly make generalizations about Alexandria as being a "brilliant" location, that extend anywhere beyond your own opinion. Alexandria was not a "brilliant" choice, in fact many people believe it was a very poor choice. Notice I'm not saying "it is a poor choice". The difference is in being able to differentiate one's subjective opinion from the objective facts, something I think you find it very difficult to do when you make statements like "It is for this reason that places like Taipei and Alexandria are brilliant." That is your subjective opinion that Alexandria is a "brilliant" location. Others think that it is a very poor location. It's "brilliance", if any, extends only to your own opinion. "So when you think the risk is too big, you do not go." Again, this is your own opinion. Others think different actions are appropriate to take when they see a risk. Your opinion only extends in this case to your own behavior, not anyone else's. -Dan On Mar 7, 2008, at 9:24 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > We disagree on what is obvious. For me it is obvious that we need to > spread > the message of our projects and about our way as wide as possible. > This > means that we should go where we are weak but are building a > presence. Going > to the places that you where we are already doing well is missing > important > opportunities. It is for this reason that places like Taipei and > Alexandria > are brilliant. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 3:13 PM, Dan Rosenthal &lt;swatjester(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> >> On Mar 7, 2008, at 4:49 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: >> >>> Considering that the >>> number of articles is slowly becoming more balanced and >>> considering >>> that >>> even the English Wikipedia has contributors all over the world, >>> there is no >>> such thing as an "obvious" location to choose from. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >> >> >> Being that there is no "obvious location", Gerard, then there is no >> reason to pick a location that has significant drawbacks. There are >> many European, North American, even Asian locations that are >> accessible to the vast majority of the world, in some cases >> probably >> less expensively than Alexandria, (since places that are major >> international airport hubs usually have the cheapest airfares, and >> generally do not require a connecting flight ticket), that are more >> free and open societies, without as intense worries about >> censorship, >> terrorism, or implicitly supporting human rights violations. >> Toronto, >> DC, New York, Berlin, Paris, London, Tokyo, Seoul, San Francisco, >> Moscow, Vienna, Prague, etc. If there is no "obvious location" to >> choose from, why not any of these places that are safer, do not >> require out attendees to pretend they are not gay or jewish, do not >> discriminate against women, etc. >> >> -Dan >> >> _______________________________________________ >> foundation-l mailing list >> foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ >> foundation-l >> > _______________________________________________ > foundation-l mailing list > foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/ foundation-l