Hello, Coming from South Asia and looking at ESEAP, I am not at all excited considering the geographical representation of the committee as per Wikimedia regions[1], excluding WMF appointed candidates who will represent WMF instead of the regions itself, we have - United States and Canada - 2 members - Western & Northern Europe - 3 members - Central and Eastern Europe & Central Asia - 1 member - Sub-Saharan Africa - 1 member - Middle East and North Africa - 2 members - East, Southeast Asia and the Pacific - 1 member - South Asia - 1 member - Latin America & Caribbean - 2 members I am so surprised to see only 1 representation from ESEAP which has such a thriving group of affiliates and which had talked about and tried to materialise to build a hub in the region so passionately. If movement strategy wants Wikimedia to reach the next billion users in future, they are in South Asia and ESEAP and without hearing the voices from those regions, that target will be very hard to achieve. Anyway, good luck and best wishes for the drafting process. Hope it will echo our voices. [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… Regards, Bodhisattwa On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 18:32, Mardetanha <mardetanha.wiki(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Samuel, On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 21:35, Samuel Klein &lt;meta.sj(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: People develop their perspectives based on their environment, culture and surroundings and it is almost impossible for anyone to understand comprehensively about what is going on in other places without dealing with their real situation there. It doesn't matter how honest or how experienced a person might be, an Western European will have hard times to understand all the real issues in South Asia, A South Asian will have little understanding about what is really happening in Latin America and that is why geographical representation is needed. If the question or process is about something global, then it is needed even more. To draft a document for us all, it is essential to get voices from as many as possible, if not all. How can a movement charter be drafted if it does not echo the concerns of all our existing communities clearly? We chose to follow popular elections which have always brought North Americans and Europeans on the top of the table and historically abandoned other parts of the world, even though there are capable people in those parts too but do not have the voter base. We have seen it repeated in this election process too. Here we had 7 seats through community elections, so its almost futile for Global South candidates to compete there, the proof of my statement is that only 1 candidate from the Global South actually made through this election. So, they only have 6 affiliate selected positions from 8 Wikimedia regions (and 1 Thematic hub), where they have minimal chance because 6 seats from 8 regions count to < 1 candidate per hub. So, regions like South Asia, ESEAP, Sub-Saharan Africa, etc. was extremely lucky to get 1 candidate in the committee, 2 is not at all expected. Don't you think that this is a totally unfair process from the start for under-represented communities and affiliates? No wonder, people here are getting aloof from the movement strategy process. Of course broad geographic and project backgrounds, and good language Sorry for my English, I am not a native English speaker, so maybe there is a misunderstanding. I have not excluded anyone as you are saying. Runa and Jorge are amazing people in the movement but I was talking about geographical representation of the communities and they are appointed by WMF as their representative, so geographical representation does not stand there. More than 4 billion people live here in South Asian and ESEAP countries. If our next billion readers will not come from here by 2030, then where will it come from? These are developing countries embracing technology at a high rate. (Anyway, my opinion concerns Africa too. There is only 1 representative from the entire Sub-Saharan Africa.) Regards, Bodhisattwa

Well stated Yaroslav, and congratulation to the people elected/selected/appointed I see this election process as the best yet in the movement. I believe the election/selection/ appointed worked very well and gave a well balanced group. Looking through the stages of the Single Transferable Vote method  I think it worked very well. Raven was 18 at beginning but became elected at the end, she being a very good candidate but not so well known Anders Den 2021-11-02 kl. 09:43, skrev Yaroslav Blanter:

Some people here seem to think that because the outcome had at least most regions represented, that the process itself ensured this. This is not the case - we only got this outcome because of a bug/feature in the election software. Just in case anyone else thinks that this kind of process would be worth repeating ;-) On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 at 11:07, Bodhisattwa Mandal &lt;bodhisattwa.rgkmc(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

Which bug, Philip? On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 1:58 PM Philip Kopetzky &lt;philip.kopetzky(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

I tend to agree that this was a failed process especially around the affiliate selections because once the selector was chosen there was no input by the affiliates as to who was chosen to represent them. I think it would have been much better for each affiliate region to have chosen their representative first rather than choose one person who would have no obligation to consult before making any decisions. That part of the process might well have been to pick a dozen random people to make a choice. As for the heavy bias to North America and Europe its a self fulfilling prophecy as it is the same regions who get most of high profile community committee positions as well as get to attend most events in person with capacity to build reputations and personal ties. Ironically the IGC was intended to build the GC instead we got this some which is greater than than a GC and will have a deeper impact so its only fair to expect a lot of concerns around the process and how it will impact the outcomes. The reality is that the GC should have been created, and the Movement Charter should then be created by them, the items should be separate concepts. Where ever it goes from here my biggest concern is the MCDC doesnt have any practical support for record keeping and no finances to ensure its even able to appropriately consult yet theres still an expectation to produce something that will more than just represent everyone On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 at 18:28, Philip Kopetzky &lt;philip.kopetzky(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: -- GN. * 2021* *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia* Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u

Hi all, I'm curious as to what the ideal distribution of members might have been? NWE has 3 members, which seems like an outlier, but all the others were 1 or 2 - so which would you have picked to have 1 member rather than 2? Or should there just be more members overall (good for the global council itself, less good for a drafting committee)? Thanks, Mike On 1/11/21 14:13:53, Bodhisattwa Mandal wrote: > Hello, > > Coming from South Asia and looking at ESEAP, I am not at all excited > considering the geographical representation of the committee as per > Wikimedia regions[1], excluding WMF appointed candidates who will > represent WMF instead of the regions itself, we have > > o United States and Canada - 2 members > o Western & Northern Europe - 3 members > o Central and Eastern Europe & Central Asia - 1 member > o Sub-Saharan Africa - 1 member > o Middle East and North Africa - 2 members > o East, Southeast Asia and the Pacific - 1 member > o South Asia - 1 member > o Latin America & Caribbean - 2 members > > I am so surprised to see only 1 representation from ESEAP which has such > a thriving group of affiliates and which had talked about and tried to > materialise to build a hub in the region so passionately. If movement > strategy wants Wikimedia to reach the next billion users in future, they > are in South Asia and ESEAP and without hearing the voices from those > regions, that target will be very hard to achieve. > > Anyway, good luck and best wishes for the drafting process. Hope it will > echo our voices. > > [1] > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Affiliate-chosen_members> > > Regards, > Bodhisattwa > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 18:32, Mardetanha &lt;mardetanha.wiki(a)gmail.com > <mailto:mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com>> wrote: > > Congratulations to all elected, selected and appointed > > Mohsen > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 3:47 PM Kaarel Vaidla &lt;kvaidla(a)wikimedia.org > <mailto:kvaidla@wikimedia.org>> wrote: > > Dear movement colleagues, > > > I am happy to announce that the Movement Charter Drafting > Committee election and selection processes are complete. > > * > > 1018 participants voted to elect > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_Process#Election_process>seven > members to the committee: > > o > > Richard Knipel (Pharos) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Richard_Knipel_(Pharos)> > > o > > Anne Clin (Risker) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Anne_Clin_(Risker)> > > o > > Alice Wiegand (Lyzzy) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Alice_Wiegand_(lyzzy)> > > o > > Michał Buczyński (Aegis Maelstrom) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Micha%C5%82_Buczy%C5%84ski_(Aegis_Maelstrom)> > > o > > Richard (Nosebagbear) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Richard_(Nosebagbear)> > > o > > Ciell (Ciell) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Ciell_(Ciell)> > > o > > Ravan J Al-Taie (Ravan) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Ravan_J_Al-Taie_(Ravan)> > > * > > The affiliate process > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_Process#Selection_process>has > selected six members: > > o > > Anass Sedrati (Anass Sedrati) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Anass_Sedrati_(Anass_Sedrati)> > > o > > Érica Azzellini (EricaAzzellini) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#%C3%89rica_Azzellini_(EricaAzzellini)> > > o > > Jamie Li-Yun Lin (Li-Yun Lin) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Jamie_Li-Yun_Lin_(Li-Yun_Lin)> > > o > > Georges Fodouop (Geugeor) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Georges_Fodouop_(Geugeor)> > > o > > Manavpreet Kaur (Manavpreet Kaur) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Manavpreet_Kaur_(Manavpreet_Kaur)> > > o > > Pepe Flores (Padaguan) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Pepe_Flores_(Padaguan)> > > * > > The Wikimedia Foundation has appointed > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_Process#Appointment_by_the_Wikimedia_Foundation> > two members: > > o > > Runa Bhattacharjee (Runab WMF) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Runa_Bhattacharjee_(Runab_WMF)> > > o > > Jorge Vargas (JVargas WMF) > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candidates#Jorge_Vargas_(JVargas_(WMF))> > > > The committee will convene soon to start its work. The committee > can appoint up to three more members  to bridge diversity and > expertise gaps. > > > We are also in the process of creating the meta pages with more > details regarding the election and selection processes. I will > follow-up in this thread when they are available. > > > If you are interested in engaging with the Movement Charter > drafting process > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter>, follow the > updates on Meta > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee>and > join the Telegram group <https://t.me/joinchat/U-4hhVPaxKGHseva>. > > > With thanks from the Movement Strategy and Governance team > > -- > > > > Kaarel Vaidla (he/him) > > Movement Strategy <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/2030> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/WPL4AL3J3T2ZRMANNV4PYFNIOOU7DYVC/> > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> > > -- > Sent from iphone using Gmail mobile > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > <https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/CPAGKMUE4GWG6ZE4OEXV62NXHO7RW7TT/> > To unsubscribe send an email to > wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org >

been? To me I would have thought that each region picked 2 representatives giving each equality with the WMF, not that it would be equity given the difference in numbers and purpose. I accept that with more than 300 languages, 170 affiliates, 13 projects, the WMF/BoT, no combination of 15 is going to be able to represent the community with anything near equity. The biggest issue was how much the process changed once it commenced and that in part contributed to the numbers and the lack assurity in the process. I also think that a Movement Charter is something entirely different to creating governance for the Global Council despite how its been worded. Ideally the MCDC would split into working groups to focus on each aspect this out comes means that people from 4 regions will have to chose where the community they represent will best heard and served while 4 other regions and the WMF will have voice in each On Tue, 2 Nov 2021 at 20:24, Mike Peel &lt;email(a)mikepeel.net&gt; wrote: > Hi all, > been? NWE has 3 members, which seems like an outlier, but all the others > were 1 or 2 - so which would you have picked to have 1 member rather > than 2? Or should there just be more members overall (good for the > global council itself, less good for a drafting committee)? > > Thanks, > Mike > > On 1/11/21 14:13:53, Bodhisattwa Mandal wrote: > > Hello, > > > > Coming from South Asia and looking at ESEAP, I am not at all excited > > considering the geographical representation of the committee as per > > Wikimedia regions[1], excluding WMF appointed candidates who will > > represent WMF instead of the regions itself, we have > > > > o United States and Canada - 2 members > > o Western & Northern Europe - 3 members > > o Central and Eastern Europe & Central Asia - 1 member > > o Sub-Saharan Africa - 1 member > > o Middle East and North Africa - 2 members > > o East, Southeast Asia and the Pacific - 1 member > > o South Asia - 1 member > > o Latin America & Caribbean - 2 members > > > > I am so surprised to see only 1 representation from ESEAP which has such > > a thriving group of affiliates and which had talked about and tried to > > materialise to build a hub in the region so passionately. If movement > > strategy wants Wikimedia to reach the next billion users in future, they > > are in South Asia and ESEAP and without hearing the voices from those > > regions, that target will be very hard to achieve. > > > > Anyway, good luck and best wishes for the drafting process. Hope it will > > echo our voices. > > > > [1] > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > Regards, > > Bodhisattwa > > > > > > On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 at 18:32, Mardetanha &lt;mardetanha.wiki(a)gmail.com > > <mailto:mardetanha.wiki@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > Congratulations to all elected, selected and appointed > > > > Mohsen > > > > On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 3:47 PM Kaarel Vaidla &lt;kvaidla(a)wikimedia.org > > <mailto:kvaidla@wikimedia.org>> wrote: > > > > Dear movement colleagues, > > > > > > I am happy to announce that the Movement Charter Drafting > > Committee election and selection processes are complete. > > > > * > > > > 1018 participants voted to elect > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_… > >seven > > members to the committee: > > > > o > > > > Richard Knipel (Pharos) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Anne Clin (Risker) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Alice Wiegand (Lyzzy) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Michał Buczyński (Aegis Maelstrom) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Richard (Nosebagbear) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Ciell (Ciell) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Ravan J Al-Taie (Ravan) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > * > > > > The affiliate process > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_… > >has > > selected six members: > > > > o > > > > Anass Sedrati (Anass Sedrati) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Érica Azzellini (EricaAzzellini) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Jamie Li-Yun Lin (Li-Yun Lin) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Georges Fodouop (Geugeor) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Manavpreet Kaur (Manavpreet Kaur) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Pepe Flores (Padaguan) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > * > > > > The Wikimedia Foundation has appointed > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_… > > > > two members: > > > > o > > > > Runa Bhattacharjee (Runab WMF) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > o > > > > Jorge Vargas (JVargas WMF) > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Candida… > > > > > > > > The committee will convene soon to start its work. The committee > > can appoint up to three more members to bridge diversity and > > expertise gaps. > > > > > > We are also in the process of creating the meta pages with more > > details regarding the election and selection processes. I will > > follow-up in this thread when they are available. > > > > > > If you are interested in engaging with the Movement Charter > > drafting process > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter>, follow the > > updates on Meta > > < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee>and > > join the Telegram group <https://t.me/joinchat/U-4hhVPaxKGHseva > >. > > > > > > With thanks from the Movement Strategy and Governance team > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Kaarel Vaidla (he/him) > > > > Movement Strategy <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/2030 > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > > Public archives at > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > > < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > -- > > Sent from iphone using Gmail mobile > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > <mailto:wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org>, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines> and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l> > > Public archives at > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > > < > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l(a)lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org… > To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave(a)lists.wikimedia.org -- GN. * 2021* *Celebrating 20 years of Wikipedia* Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page My print shop: https://www.redbubble.com/people/Gnangarra/shop?asc=u