Hi everyone!
I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized [1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg, to support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects and movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the Wikimedia community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media institutions in St. Petersburg.
Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recogniti... [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Hi Kirill,
so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the Russian community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome, Paris, Munich or Sydney for example?
Best, Philip
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 12:20, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized [1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg, to support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects and movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the Wikimedia community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media institutions in St. Petersburg.
Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recogniti... [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group _______________________________________________ Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
A usergroup for every city!
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:15 AM Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Kirill,
so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the Russian community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome, Paris, Munich or Sydney for example?
Best, Philip
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 12:20, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized [1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia User Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg, to support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects and movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the Wikimedia community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media institutions in St. Petersburg.
Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recogniti... [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group _______________________________________________ Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
Hello Philip,
I was asking the same question - isn't there already a Wikimedia Rossiya - but I guess this is the User Group of Saint Petersburg in Florida (USA), not Sankt Peterburg in Russia. Oh wait... this IS about the city in Russia! https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Kind regards Ziko
Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:15 Uhr schrieb Philip Kopetzky < philip.kopetzky@gmail.com>:
Hi Kirill,
so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the Russian community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome, Paris, Munich or Sydney for example?
Best, Philip
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 12:20, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has recognized [1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia
User
Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg, to support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects
and
movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the
Wikimedia
community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media institutions
in
St. Petersburg.
Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recogniti...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Ziko: Yes, it is about the major Russian city. And one of its listed contacts is the longstanding president of Wikimedia Russia itself.
Philip: this is not an example of a large country being "split up", since Wikimedia Russia is still around, and was not broken up. It is also not the first user group operating within Russia, nor even the first group with a geographic remit.[1]
A.
[1] e.g. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don_Wikimedians_User_Group
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:34 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Philip,
I was asking the same question - isn't there already a Wikimedia Rossiya - but I guess this is the User Group of Saint Petersburg in Florida (USA), not Sankt Peterburg in Russia. Oh wait... this IS about the city in Russia! https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Kind regards Ziko
Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:15 Uhr schrieb Philip Kopetzky < philip.kopetzky@gmail.com>:
Hi Kirill,
so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the
Russian
community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome, Paris,
Munich
or Sydney for example?
Best, Philip
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 12:20, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
recognized
[1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia
User
Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg, to support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects
and
movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the
Wikimedia
community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media institutions
in
St. Petersburg.
Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recogniti...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's basically a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
Paulo
Asaf Bartov abartov@wikimedia.org escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 20:41:
Ziko: Yes, it is about the major Russian city. And one of its listed contacts is the longstanding president of Wikimedia Russia itself.
Philip: this is not an example of a large country being "split up", since Wikimedia Russia is still around, and was not broken up. It is also not the first user group operating within Russia, nor even the first group with a geographic remit.[1]
A.
[1] e.g. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Don_Wikimedians_User_Group
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 10:34 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Hello Philip,
I was asking the same question - isn't there already a Wikimedia Rossiya - but I guess this is the User Group of Saint Petersburg in Florida (USA), not Sankt Peterburg in Russia. Oh wait... this IS about the city in Russia! https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Kind regards Ziko
Am Do., 3. Okt. 2019 um 16:15 Uhr schrieb Philip Kopetzky < philip.kopetzky@gmail.com>:
Hi Kirill,
so it seems like geographically large countries are being split up into different user groups - do you think that this is a viable model for the future or just happened because of certain circumstances within the
Russian
community? Would your template allow a User Group from Rome, Paris,
Munich
or Sydney for example?
Best, Philip
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 12:20, Kirill Lokshin kirill.lokshin@gmail.com wrote:
Hi everyone!
I'm very happy to announce that the Affiliations Committee has
recognized
[1] the Wikimedians of Saint Petersburg User Group [2] as a Wikimedia
User
Group. The group aims to unite Wikimedians living in St. Petersburg,
to
support the development of content on topics related to St. Petersburg across different Wikimedia projects, to promote the Wikimedia projects
and
movement in St. Petersburg, and to build partnerships between the
Wikimedia
community and cultural, scientific, educational, and media
institutions
in
St. Petersburg.
Please join me in congratulating the members of this new user group!
Regards, Kirill Lokshin Chair, Affiliations Committee
[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/Resolutions/Recogniti...
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedians_of_Saint_Petersburg_User_Group
Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- Asaf Bartov Wikimedia Foundation http://www.wikimediafoundation.org
Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us make it a reality! https://donate.wikimedia.org _______________________________________________ Affiliates mailing list Affiliates@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affiliates
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's basically a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 22:53:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
basically
a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 22:53:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
basically
a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a national chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, but the way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with same Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 23:06:
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 22:53:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
basically
a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia.
The question about process is still an interesting one though (what is nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations) when a user group application comes in from a geographic area with an active affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could continue the comparison with what happens if an application would come in from South of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a national chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, but the way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with same Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019 à(s) 23:06:
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't
believe
it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 22:53:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
basically
a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the approach and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be an integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the national chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these conflicts by setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a recent example of this).
Best, Philip
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia.
The question about process is still an interesting one though (what is nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations) when a user group application comes in from a geographic area with an active affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could continue the comparison with what happens if an application would come in from South of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a national chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, but the way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with same Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 23:06:
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't
believe
it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 22:53:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's
basically
a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia
Community
User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
<mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It allows :
* decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged affiliates * more seats in Berlin and other conferences * more votes in the ASBS election * less financial burden over the national chapter, and additional funding for local activities.
Huge and well established chapters like WMDE could easily set up dozens of local affiliates, with great advantage.
Paulo
A sexta, 4 de out de 2019, 08:04, Philip Kopetzky philip.kopetzky@gmail.com escreveu:
I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the approach and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be an integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the national chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these conflicts by setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a recent example of this).
Best, Philip
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia.
The question about process is still an interesting one though (what is nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations) when a user group application comes in from a geographic area with an active affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could
continue
the comparison with what happens if an application would come in from
South
of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a national chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, but
the
way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with
same
Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 23:06:
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational
status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't
believe
it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 22:53:
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
> Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently
it's
basically > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia
Community
User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
-- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Sure, if you want to see it through that lens I guess you could argue such. However, just to put things in perspective: 1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary. 2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of setting up a UG). 3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'.
Lets assume for the sake of the discussion that the group has legitimate reasons to request affiliate status (although I have my assumptions, I'm curious what tipped the scale).
Lodewijk
On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It allows :
- decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged
affiliates
- more seats in Berlin and other conferences
- more votes in the ASBS election
- less financial burden over the national chapter, and additional funding
for local activities.
Huge and well established chapters like WMDE could easily set up dozens of local affiliates, with great advantage.
Paulo
A sexta, 4 de out de 2019, 08:04, Philip Kopetzky < philip.kopetzky@gmail.com> escreveu:
I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the approach and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be an integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the national chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these conflicts by setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a recent example of this).
Best, Philip
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia.
The question about process is still an interesting one though (what is nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations) when
a
user group application comes in from a geographic area with an active affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could
continue
the comparison with what happens if an application would come in from
South
of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a national chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell, but
the
way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with
same
Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 23:06:
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational
status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't
believe
it compares with a city UG.
Paulo
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 22:53:
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta > paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote: > > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently
it's
> basically > > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > > > It's a curious precedent. > > The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia
Community
> User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK). > > -- > Andy Mabbett > @pigsonthewing > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > Unsubscribe:
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Hey,
"*1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary.*" -> I can agree with that point, yes; "*2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of setting up a UG).*" - I respect your opinion, but IMO getting to have increased, or even decisive power on the election of 2 of the 5 members (which in turn appoint and confirm the other 5) of the board of one of the biggest players and stakeholders of modern days, as the Wikimedia Foundation has been growing into progressively, is indeed a powerful driven force. Furthermore, as far as I know, bureaucratic requirements for UGs are really low, and in line with a department or cell would have to report to the mother organization. I'm not saying or even suggesting this was the driven force behind the formation of the SPUG, I certainly assume good faith. I'm saying that it may be a driven force for similar cases presented as local affiliates more or less explicitly under the umbrella of a national chapter to pop up. And this aspect can be potentially unfair, and even amount to abuse of the system, as a trick to gather more votes; *"3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'.* I mentioned funding, not WMF funding necessarily. It's perfectly understandable that a locally registered association may have, in some contexts, more easy access to funds than a national one. I live in an autonomous region where it is very common, so I understand it may be indeed a legitimate reason to create and register a local affiliate. No idea if that is the case of Saint Petersburg, but if it is, it's a smart move.
Basically, I'm not criticizing this approval - I've no idea what is behind the group formation, though I assume the members have the best intentions, and it actually looks like a smart move. I'm just curious if this will become a trend, and how will it develop.
Best, Paulo
effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com escreveu no dia sexta, 4/10/2019 à(s) 21:39:
Sure, if you want to see it through that lens I guess you could argue such. However, just to put things in perspective: 1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary. 2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of setting up a UG). 3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'.
Lets assume for the sake of the discussion that the group has legitimate reasons to request affiliate status (although I have my assumptions, I'm curious what tipped the scale).
Lodewijk
On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It allows :
- decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged
affiliates
- more seats in Berlin and other conferences
- more votes in the ASBS election
- less financial burden over the national chapter, and additional funding
for local activities.
Huge and well established chapters like WMDE could easily set up dozens
of
local affiliates, with great advantage.
Paulo
A sexta, 4 de out de 2019, 08:04, Philip Kopetzky < philip.kopetzky@gmail.com> escreveu:
I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the
approach
and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be an integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the
national
chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these conflicts
by
setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a
recent
example of this).
Best, Philip
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders <
effeietsanders@gmail.com>
wrote:
I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia.
The question about process is still an interesting one though (what
is
nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations)
when
a
user group application comes in from a geographic area with an active affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could
continue
the comparison with what happens if an application would come in from
South
of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a
national
chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell,
but
the
way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP, with
same
Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 23:06:
What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational
status)
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I
don't
believe
> it compares with a city UG. > > Paulo > > Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia
quinta,
3/10/2019 > à(s) 22:53: > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta > > paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if
apparently
it's
> > basically > > > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > > > > > It's a curious precedent. > > > > The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia
Community
> > User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK). > > > > -- > > Andy Mabbett > > @pigsonthewing > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
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BTW, I seem to recall that in last ASBS election, affiliates which presented something like 70% member overlap with another affiliate would not be allowed to participate in the process. If this practice is kept, it avoids gaming the system (intentionally or unintentionally) through a multiplication of affiliates which are basically cells or clones of one of them.
If this is safeguarded, cell-style affiliates probably can become a nice feature.
Paulo
Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com escreveu no dia sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 00:45:
Hey,
"*1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary.*" -> I can agree with that point, yes; "*2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of setting up a UG).*" - I respect your opinion, but IMO getting to have increased, or even decisive power on the election of 2 of the 5 members (which in turn appoint and confirm the other 5) of the board of one of the biggest players and stakeholders of modern days, as the Wikimedia Foundation has been growing into progressively, is indeed a powerful driven force. Furthermore, as far as I know, bureaucratic requirements for UGs are really low, and in line with a department or cell would have to report to the mother organization. I'm not saying or even suggesting this was the driven force behind the formation of the SPUG, I certainly assume good faith. I'm saying that it may be a driven force for similar cases presented as local affiliates more or less explicitly under the umbrella of a national chapter to pop up. And this aspect can be potentially unfair, and even amount to abuse of the system, as a trick to gather more votes; *"3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'.* I mentioned funding, not WMF funding necessarily. It's perfectly understandable that a locally registered association may have, in some contexts, more easy access to funds than a national one. I live in an autonomous region where it is very common, so I understand it may be indeed a legitimate reason to create and register a local affiliate. No idea if that is the case of Saint Petersburg, but if it is, it's a smart move.
Basically, I'm not criticizing this approval - I've no idea what is behind the group formation, though I assume the members have the best intentions, and it actually looks like a smart move. I'm just curious if this will become a trend, and how will it develop.
Best, Paulo
effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com escreveu no dia sexta, 4/10/2019 à(s) 21:39:
Sure, if you want to see it through that lens I guess you could argue such. However, just to put things in perspective: 1) if a group has more active cores, maybe they should be more broadly represented in Berlin. Maybe these constructs shouldn't be necessary. 2) No matter how much some care about the ASBS, I doubt that this will be a driving force to get more bureaucracy (because that is the cost of setting up a UG). 3) funding for local activities is probably not really a consideration in the case of Russia, where foreign funding is (to put it mildly) 'complicated'.
Lets assume for the sake of the discussion that the group has legitimate reasons to request affiliate status (although I have my assumptions, I'm curious what tipped the scale).
Lodewijk
On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 3:01 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a very interesting strategy for any well developed affiliate. It allows :
- decentralization, and stronger local groups, now as full fledged
affiliates
- more seats in Berlin and other conferences
- more votes in the ASBS election
- less financial burden over the national chapter, and additional
funding
for local activities.
Huge and well established chapters like WMDE could easily set up dozens
of
local affiliates, with great advantage.
Paulo
A sexta, 4 de out de 2019, 08:04, Philip Kopetzky < philip.kopetzky@gmail.com> escreveu:
I can only reiterate what Lodewijk said - I'm trying to find the
approach
and goals in the decision to acknowledge user groups that seem to be
an
integral part (or from an outside perspective, should be) of the
national
chapter. In the past this has been an indicator of personal conflicts within a chapter or user group and AffCom perpetuating these
conflicts by
setting up competing affiliates (the situation in Albania being a
recent
example of this).
Best, Philip
On Fri, 4 Oct 2019 at 06:33, effe iets anders <
effeietsanders@gmail.com>
wrote:
I would like to note that one of the contacts of this user group is Vladimir Medeyko, the director of Wikimedia Russia. I'm assuming comfortably that this application happened in full coordination with Wikimedia Russia.
The question about process is still an interesting one though (what
is
nowadays the approach of Affcom, and what are the considerations)
when
a
user group application comes in from a geographic area with an
active
affiliate at a 'higher level' (in this case, a country). You could
continue
the comparison with what happens if an application would come in
from
South
of Nevsky (a neighborhood in St. Petersburg).
Lodewijk
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 3:29 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com> wrote:
Wikimedia NYC is a very different situation, there is not a
national
chapter in the US, so it's not a cell of anything. Just to clarify: Saint Petersburg eventually could not be a cell,
but
the
way it is presented (to promote Wikimedia RU activities in SP,
with
same
Wikimedia RU people), it's basically a cell.
Paulo
Yuri Astrakhan yuriastrakhan@gmail.com escreveu no dia quinta,
3/10/2019
à(s) 23:06:
> What about Wikimedia NYC? (I'm not sure of its organizational
status)
> > On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 6:03 PM Paulo Santos Perneta < > paulosperneta@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I
don't
believe > > it compares with a city UG. > > > > Paulo > > > > Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia
quinta,
> 3/10/2019 > > à(s) 22:53: > > > > > On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta > > > paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if
apparently
it's
> > > basically > > > > a cell of Wikimedia Russia? > > > > > > > > It's a curious precedent. > > > > > > The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia
Community
> > > User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK). > > > > > > -- > > > Andy Mabbett > > > @pigsonthewing > > > http://pigsonthewing.org.uk > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________ > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > Unsubscribe:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Hi folks,
I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global conference - regional conference - topic-specific conferences" & (2) WMF & affiliates general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst cooperating in various projects.
* Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our chapter is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
* SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of the Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of Moscow).
* Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level advocacy & other projects.
* We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally or topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
regards, farhad
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
Thanks for the clarification and the insights. This could be a really interesting organizative model for huge countries, even for countries with more than one chapter but not a country level one, as happens in the USA.
2019 urr. 5 4:38 PM erabiltzaileak hau idatzi du (Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin frhd@yandex.com):
Hi folks,
I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global conference - regional conference - topic-specific conferences" & (2) WMF & affiliates general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst cooperating in various projects.
* Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our chapter is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
* SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of the Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of Moscow).
* Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level advocacy & other projects.
* We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally or topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
regards, farhad
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
_______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Hi Farhad,
Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight. The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations. I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and nuanced options and varieties, such as those confederations.
Best, Paulo
Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin frhd@yandex.com escreveu no dia sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
Hi folks,
I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global conference
- regional conference - topic-specific conferences" & (2) WMF & affiliates
general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst cooperating in various projects.
- Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our chapter is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
- SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of the
Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of Moscow).
- Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level advocacy & other projects.
- We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally or topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
regards, farhad
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF (committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody have a link? Kind regards Ziko
Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com>:
Hi Farhad,
Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight. The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations. I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and nuanced options and varieties, such as those confederations.
Best, Paulo
Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin frhd@yandex.com escreveu no dia sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
Hi folks,
I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
conference
- regional conference - topic-specific conferences" & (2) WMF &
affiliates
general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
cooperating
in various projects.
- Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
chapter
is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves can't be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
- SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
the
Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of Moscow).
- Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on national-level advocacy & other projects.
- We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
or
topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
regards, farhad
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan / Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi Ziko,
I believe the only "official" rationale is in the 2012 Board resolution: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WMF_Resolutions/Recognizing_Models_of_Affili...
and the thinking behind this is documented here, also from 2011-12. https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Movement_roles_project
I do not know of any serious discussion on the subject until 2019, when a you may know the Roles and Responsibilities strategy working group looked at this and similar issues, and came to the conclusion that we should move away from the idea of "WMF and affiliates" to a more distributed approach with a network of equal entities filling different roles, and more structures to support and coordinate between them. (There are some similarities between that and what the Wikimedians in Russia seem to be moving towards organically, which is interesting.)
Chris
On Mon, Oct 7, 2019 at 12:50 PM Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF (committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody have a link? Kind regards Ziko
Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com>:
Hi Farhad,
Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight. The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations. I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and
nuanced
options and varieties, such as those confederations.
Best, Paulo
Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin frhd@yandex.com escreveu no dia sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
Hi folks,
I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
conference
- regional conference - topic-specific conferences" & (2) WMF &
affiliates
general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
cooperating
in various projects.
- Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
chapter
is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves
can't
be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
- SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
the
Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of Moscow).
- Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on
national-level
advocacy & other projects.
- We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
or
topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
regards, farhad
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan
/
Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi Ziko,
When WMPT was forced by AffCom early this year to change the old chapter agreement we had signed in 2009 for a new one, which we were told was the current model for everyone, the main difference between the two was precisely the end of the chapter hegemony over the national territory. We were told, back then, that those were the new rules. You can read it here: https://pt.wikimedia.org/wiki/Chapter_agreement
Personally, I don't mind that in the least. If some caution is taken by AffCom, e.g., to not approve rogue affiliates which at it's very inception are already at war with the national chapter (or "post/pre"-chapter affiliate, as AffCom has done in Brazil back in 2015, causing all the mess everybody knows), all is cool. Spain has already something like 5 or 6 affiliates, and they seem to live happily in peace. If it works, let it go.
Best, Paulo
Ziko van Dijk zvandijk@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 7/10/2019 à(s) 12:50:
Sorry, people, but I would like to read an official statement of the WMF (committee) what is the reason or rationale behind this policy to accept WM user groups in countries where you already have a chapter. Does anybody have a link? Kind regards Ziko
Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:16 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com>:
Hi Farhad,
Very interesting, thank you very much for sharing your insight. The advantages at an organizational level are quite obvious, indeed, and it's a smart way to deal with those membership limitations. I'm glad that the WMF & Wikimedia is abandoning the very rigid chapter model as the preferred one, and is evolving into more flexible and
nuanced
options and varieties, such as those confederations.
Best, Paulo
Фархад Фаткуллин / Farhad Fatkullin frhd@yandex.com escreveu no dia sábado, 5/10/2019 à(s) 15:38:
Hi folks,
I can probably comment this, as a member of both Wikimedia Russia and a Tatar language-specific UG. On top of participation in Wikimedia Language Diversity initiative on meta, I am also contemplating and working towards starting a territory-specific UG for my region + an incubator UG for more language-specific UG in the languages of Russia.
Wikimedians of Russia seem to see the matreshkas of (1) "global
conference
- regional conference - topic-specific conferences" & (2) WMF &
affiliates
general meeting - national chapters - UGs" as natural structures, each addressing different tasks, having different priorities, whilst
cooperating
in various projects.
- Wikimedia Russia legal requirements (in-person quorum for
decision-making, etc.) doesn't allow us to accept into membership all members of all our regional, language or topic specific UGs. So our
chapter
is evolving towards a mixed confederation status, selectively welcoming some members from various groupings around Russia (which themselves
can't
be neither cells nor branches of WMRU).
- SPB is not purely a city, but a one of 85 provinces (read states) of
the
Russian Federation (like my home Republic of Tatarstan, neighbouring Republic of Bashkortostan with its Bashkir Wiki-grandmas, or a city of Moscow).
- Once we will spin out UG MSK, we will complete transforming Wikimedia
Russia into a collective entity for join tasks, working on
national-level
advocacy & other projects.
- We currently have 5 existing UGs, have two more filed & at least one
more at the preparation stage - as this is a good way to engage locally
or
topically interested public into Wikimedia universe.
regards, farhad
-- Farhad Fatkullin - Фархад Фаткуллин Тел.+79274158066 / skype:frhdkazan
/
Wikipedia:frhdkazan / Wikidata:Q34036417
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 23:02, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Andy Mabbett andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk escreveu no dia quinta, 3/10/2019
On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 20:45, Paulo Santos Perneta paulosperneta@gmail.com wrote:
Why isn't it a department of Wikimedia Russia, if apparently it's basically a cell of Wikimedia Russia?
It's a curious precedent.
The precedent was already set, in March 2017, by Wikimedia Community User Group Wales (c/f Wikimedia UK).
Wales is a whole country complete with it's own language, I don't believe it compares with a city UG.
Who made any comparison of Wales to a city?
The issue under discussion was a UG as "basically a cell of" a national chapter.
[Though if you do want such a comparison, St. P.'s population is near double that of Wales]
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