For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
There have been no edits at mo.wikipedia or mo.wiktionary because both databases are locked.
Mark
2008/11/25 Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
If the 'mo' language code is deprecated, then why not ro-cyrl.wikipedia.org ?
Thanks, Pharos
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I believe its a compromise.
________________________________ From: Pharos pharosofalexandria@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:12:21 PM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
If the 'mo' language code is deprecated, then why not ro-cyrl.wikipedia.org ?
Thanks, Pharos
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 8:04 PM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Don't forget zh-yue → yue and zh-min-nan → nan; these languages have got valid ISO 639-3 codes since creation. Also, als should be moved to gsw (als is the code for Tosk Albanian, while als in Wikimedia is Alemannisch - not even close to Tosk Albanian).
2008/11/26 Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Hoi, Do not forget the als.wikipedia.org. It stands for Alsatian, but the als code is the Tosk language. The "gsw" code is the code that should have been used. http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=gsw
The nrm.wikipedia is also using a wrong code. nrm is Narom, a language from Malaysia. Nourmande is not recognised as a language, consequently there is no code available for it. I propose to use qaa for this. http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#R Thanks, Gerard<
2008/11/26 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com
Don't forget zh-yue → yue and zh-min-nan → nan; these languages have got valid ISO 639-3 codes since creation. Also, als should be moved to gsw (als is the code for Tosk Albanian, while als in Wikimedia is Alemannisch - not even close to Tosk Albanian).
2008/11/26 Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a
while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Aromanian ==
roa-rup.wikipedia.org -> rup.wikipedia.org roa-rup.wiktionary.org -> rup.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15988
ISO-639-2 code 'rup' was added in September 2005, and can supersede the generic 'roa' code with 'rup' subtag.
This seems pretty uncontroversial. Existing domains and interwikis would be redirected.
== Low German ==
nds.wikipedia.org -> nds-de.wikipedia.org nds.wikibooks.org -> nds-de.wikibooks.org nds.wikiquote.org -> nds-de.wikiquote.org nds.wiktionary.org -> nds-de.wiktionary.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8540
Reasoning: Disambiguation of country variants to create a portal site (nds-nl.wikipedia.org exists as well).
The original request is almost 2 years old and didn't seem to have any clear consensus; is this still desired?
Creating a portal site could cause difficulties with URL compatibility, and I don't really recommend making this change without clear consensus from the community there.
Note that nds.wikipedia.org includes a link on the front page to nds-nl.wikipedia.org.
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
== Belorusian "old orthography" ==
be-x-old.wikipedia.org -> be-tarask.wikipedia.org
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9823
Some time ago we swapped around the Belorusian Wikipedia, moving the previous version which was primarily using a non-official orthography, from 'be' to 'be-x-old', and re-establishing be.wikipedia.org using the official state orthography.
There was later a request to rename 'be-x-old' (using a non-standard code) to 'be-tarask', a IANA-registered subtag which is rather more descriptive. IMHO this change should not be terribly controversial -- if we're not closing it, we may as well give it its official RFC 4646-registered code.
Old domain and interwikis would be redirected.
-- brion vibber (brion @ wikimedia.org)
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-- Jon Harald Søby http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Harald_S%C3%B8by _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Do not forget the als.wikipedia.org. It stands for Alsatian, but the als code is the Tosk language. The "gsw" code is the code that should have been used. http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=gsw
Adding it to my list, thanks!
The nrm.wikipedia is also using a wrong code. nrm is Narom, a language from Malaysia. Nourmande is not recognised as a language, consequently there is no code available for it. I propose to use qaa for this. http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#R
I'd recommend roa-x-norman (generic Romance code with an extension tag) rather than a private-use identifier.
Private-use identifiers are meant more for things like internal coding within an application; such as where you'd want to indicate that a document is not in a human language, or maybe a special mixed setting that's specific to your organization's internal usage such as "not yet inspected for coding" or something.
Per spec: "These identifiers may only be used locally, and may not be used in interchange without a private agreement."
The purpose of using language codes on the web as we do is explicitly for interchange with browser software, end users (as a navigation marker in the URL), and content reusers.
- -- brion
2008/11/25 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Don't forget zh-yue → yue and zh-min-nan → nan; these languages have got valid ISO 639-3 codes since creation. Also, als should be moved to gsw (als is the code for Tosk Albanian, while als in Wikimedia is Alemannisch - not even close to Tosk Albanian).
Jon, what about no? Shouldn't that be moved to nb? Or would the Norwegians kill me for suggesting such a thing? :-)
Some might; personally I would favour it, but I don't know if the community at large would... :/
2008/11/28 Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com
2008/11/25 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Don't forget zh-yue → yue and zh-min-nan → nan; these languages have got valid ISO 639-3 codes since creation. Also, als should be moved to gsw
(als
is the code for Tosk Albanian, while als in Wikimedia is Alemannisch -
not
even close to Tosk Albanian).
Jon, what about no? Shouldn't that be moved to nb? Or would the Norwegians kill me for suggesting such a thing? :-)
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
2008/11/28 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Some might; personally I would favour it, but I don't know if the community at large would... :/
We wouldn't want to ruin that nice jingle though... 'there's nowiki, like nowiki!'
Well, it also gives interesting filnames like this one http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Fileuploadsummary/nofromflickr
That aside, nb should be the code used for Wikipedia in Norwegian (bokmål), but presently I believe it is only used for interwiki by our friends at Norwegian (nynorsk). It would take quite a lot of effort to change all those "no"s throughout the wikimediaworld. And I'm quite sure there would be some opposition from the nb community (the nn people would be cheering though)
Finn
2008/11/28 Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com
2008/11/28 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Some might; personally I would favour it, but I don't know if the
community
at large would... :/
We wouldn't want to ruin that nice jingle though... 'there's nowiki, like nowiki!'
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
Note: This e-mail address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to this address will probably get lost.
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Finn Rindahl finnrindwiki@gmail.com wrote:
It would take quite a lot of effort to change all those "no"s throughout the wikimediaworld.
That shouldn't be necessary, there would be a redirect set-up.
Well, I thought there already *was* a redirect set up, so that no in interwikis etc really is a redirect to nb.
Finn
2008/11/29 Casey Brown cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:42 PM, Finn Rindahl finnrindwiki@gmail.com wrote:
It would take quite a lot of effort to change all those "no"s throughout the wikimediaworld.
That shouldn't be necessary, there would be a redirect set-up.
-- Casey Brown Cbrown1023
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On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 12:56 AM, Finn Rindahl finnrindwiki@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I thought there already *was* a redirect set up, so that no in interwikis etc really is a redirect to nb.
There is a redirect set up, but it goes in exactly the opposite direction.
Brion Vibber schrieb:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
Another two candidates:
1) zh-yue -> yue. See bug 8217 and Names.php:
'yue' => '粵語', # Cantonese -- (bug 8217) yue instead of zh-yue, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=y
2) zh-min-nan -> nan 'nan' => 'Bân-lâm-gú', # Min-nan -- (bug 8217) nan instead of zh-min-nan, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=n
Raymond.
That's some very good news, thank you wikimedia for listening to us !
Hopefully you'll also rename (better remove) the word "Молдовеняскэhttp://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D3%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8D" witch is in cyrillic and is pointing now to mo., to Moldovenească with latin.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:49 PM, Raimond Spekking < raimond.spekking@gmail.com> wrote:
Brion Vibber schrieb:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a
while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
Another two candidates:
zh-yue -> yue. See bug 8217 and Names.php:
'yue' => '粵語', # Cantonese -- (bug 8217) yue instead of zh-yue,http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=y
- zh-min-nan -> nan 'nan' => 'Bân-lâm-gú', # Min-nan -- (bug 8217) nan instead of
zh-min-nan, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=n
Raymond.
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On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com wrote:
Hopefully you'll also rename (better remove) the word "Молдовеняскэhttp://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D3%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8D" witch is in cyrillic and is pointing now to mo., to Moldovenească with latin.
The idea of the renaming is to keep the Wikipedia, but to give its URL a correct name.
The name in Cyrillic will be kept, if the Wikipedia will be kept.
The Wikipedia in Moldovan will be kept, if there are people who want to write it.
If there are no people who want to write it, THEN it will be deleted.
(At least that's how things should be.)
Hoi, That is not how things are. Against the protest of some the mo.wikipedia was locked. The request was not for locking but for complete removal.
The notion that just because some people want to edit a wiki in any linguistic entity they can have their project is flatly wrong. There are requirements that exist for new languages and new projects. When these are not met, such a request will not be granted. Thanks, GerardM
2008/11/27 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.com
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 6:06 AM, Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com wrote:
Hopefully you'll also rename (better remove) the word "Молдовеняскэ<
http://mo.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%B0%D3%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1%...
" witch is in cyrillic and is pointing now to mo., to Moldovenească with latin.
The idea of the renaming is to keep the Wikipedia, but to give its URL a correct name.
The name in Cyrillic will be kept, if the Wikipedia will be kept.
The Wikipedia in Moldovan will be kept, if there are people who want to write it.
If there are no people who want to write it, THEN it will be deleted.
(At least that's how things should be.)
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni
heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com
"We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
Hoi, That is not how things are. Against the protest of some the mo.wikipedia was locked. The request was not for locking but for complete removal.
The notion that just because some people want to edit a wiki in any linguistic entity they can have their project is flatly wrong. There are requirements that exist for new languages and new projects. When these are not met, such a request will not be granted. Thanks, GerardM
All the discussions about Moldovan are unbearably repetitive...
I respect the rules. I tried to simplify things.
Moldovan satisfies rules 1 and 2 of "Requisites for eligibility". It fails rule 3 ("different written form"), but so do sr/hr/bs/sh and be/be-x-old.
It may or may not satisfy rule 4, but that can be proved in the Incubator; that's my attempt at simplification.
The recognition of this language in Transnistria and the recognition of Transnistrita itself are completely irrelevant to the discussion.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Raimond Spekking wrote:
Another two candidates:
zh-yue -> yue. See bug 8217 and Names.php:
'yue' => '粵語', # Cantonese -- (bug 8217) yue instead of zh-yue,
http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=y
- zh-min-nan -> nan 'nan' => 'Bân-lâm-gú', # Min-nan -- (bug 8217) nan instead of
zh-min-nan, http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/codes.asp?order=639_3&letter=n
Ah, thanks! I was looking for a reference to those but couldn't find them since the codes were not referenced in the bug entry summary.
- -- brion
Hello, I want to wish you all a Happy New Year !
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo" to "mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
Thanks for your activity.
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:04 AM, Brion Vibber brion@wikimedia.org wrote:
For quick background, it's pretty painful to rename a database in our system, and we currently have a lot of bits in our configuration that make automatic relationships between the database name and the domain name, so this has delayed renaming of some language subdomains for a while.
It's not impossible to have them be different, just fairly awkward. :)
I'd like to get these done soon, but before we get started, I want to make sure the queue is complete and ready to go. I've currently got four language code renames that I see being requested...
== Moldovan ==
mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org mo.wiktionary.org -> mo-cyrl.wiktionary.org
The official Moldovan language is the same as Romanian, using Latin script and same orthography as on ro.wikipedia.org. Latin script was officially adopted in 1989, replacing Soviet-era Cyrillic script; use of Cyrillic script is still "official" in an unrecognized, lightly-populated breakaway region but if people there use it, they don't seem to edit Wikipedia...
The 'mo' language code has been officially deprecated from ISO 639-1/2 as of November 3, 2008; "Moldovan" in general use is just Romanian, and is covered by ro.wikipedia.org.
mo.wikipedia.org has not actually been edited since December 2006. mo.wiktionary.org seems to have.... 4 definition pages, which only contain translations (no definitions!) Being inactive, these projects could be closed in addition to / instead of the rename.
Use of tag 'mo-cyrl' would follow existing IANA-registered language subtags such as 'bs-Cyrl' and 'bs-Latn' for Cyrillic and Latin script variants.
Most likely, for compatibility we would redirect the existing 'mo' URLs to the new 'mo-cyrl' ones, but they would now be visibly marked by the subtag as being "yes we know, it's Cyrillic here". If we're going to lock the site as well, adding a sitenotice pointing to the Romanian wiki is probably wise.
2009/1/10 Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com:
Hello, I want to wish you all a Happy New Year !
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo" to "mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
2009/1/11 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.com
2009/1/10 Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com:
Hello, I want to wish you all a Happy New Year !
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni
Non-Transnistrian Moldovans.
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
2009/1/11 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.com:
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
This issue has been discussed in great length previously on the mailing lists. If you do not think mo.wikipedia.org with cyclic in it does not upset non-Transnistrian Moldovans then you could probably do with reading up on the politics and 20th century history of the relevant area.
I think most have more important things to worry about.
Mark
2009/1/11 geni geniice@gmail.com:
2009/1/11 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.com:
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
This issue has been discussed in great length previously on the mailing lists. If you do not think mo.wikipedia.org with cyclic in it does not upset non-Transnistrian Moldovans then you could probably do with reading up on the politics and 20th century history of the relevant area.
-- geni
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
2009/1/11 geni geniice@gmail.com:
2009/1/11 Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.com:
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain "mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
This issue has been discussed in great length previously on the mailing lists. If you do not think mo.wikipedia.org with cyclic in it does not upset non-Transnistrian Moldovans then you could probably do with reading up on the politics and 20th century history of the relevant area.
I know all that very well.
Mr. Moldovanu says "us", so he claims to represent someone. Let's suppose that he claims to represent all non-Transnistrian Moldovans. Is there a history book that proves these things:
* That all non-Transnistrian Moldovans are upset about Cyrillic Moldovan? * That all non-Transnistrian Moldovans are upset about Cyrillic Moldovan Wikipedia?
I'm really sorry about the harshness, but Mr. "Moldovan Citizen" is either completely clueless, or - more likely - a troll. From this point i am stopping to feed him, and i suggest the whole list to do the same.
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:35 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.com wrote:
I'm really sorry about the harshness, but Mr. "Moldovan Citizen" is either completely clueless, or - more likely - a troll. From this point i am stopping to feed him, and i suggest the whole list to do the same.
And I am sure that you are perfectly able to make your argument without resorting to personal insults. And if not, I will enforce that.
Thank you,
Michael
The script of Moldovan language is stated in the constitution of Moldova country, a country where moldovian nation is living, and it is LATIN.
For whom?
Yes, it's us, Moldovian people represented by Moldovian constitution, a democratic country, this is not me who choose to use latin script, IT'S US WHO CHOOSED. When you say "I write english with latin scripts", are you elected by someone ? COme on !
If is there is still someone on wikipedia using Moldovian language to write in cyrillic, he/she could use mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org.
Brion Vibber stated on Nov 26, 2008 that a change of domain " mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org" will be made. 3 months passed, nothing happened.
You don't even understand how insulting is for us to see our language in cyrllic, and we're independent for 20 years, 20 years ago we made this change ! I'm shock how ignorant you can be.
Here is a facebook group Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775 and WE have 2027 supporters and growing.
If you can't rename it, JUST DELETE IT.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.aharoni@gmail.comwrote:
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain
"mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated in november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni
heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com
"We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Hoi, This is an old old story with the same arguments repeated again and again.
- The language is called Moldovan, but Moldovan is also spoken in Transnistria - In Transnistria they write Cyrillic - In Transnistria the Moldovan constitution is not recognised - ..
Yes, the Moldovan Wikipedia has been locked for quite some time. Yes, there is nobody who can be considered to be a native speaker who wants to work on the mo.wikipedia. There is a project with some 400 articles. Too any more words have been spend already, more then can be found in the 400 articles. It is a distraction.
In my opinion, this project should either not be left in limbo as it currently is. Either open it up for editing or find a new home for it. When a new home cannot be found, delete it and keep it for who wants it. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com
The script of Moldovan language is stated in the constitution of Moldova country, a country where moldovian nation is living, and it is LATIN.
For whom?
Yes, it's us, Moldovian people represented by Moldovian constitution, a democratic country, this is not me who choose to use latin script, IT'S US WHO CHOOSED. When you say "I write english with latin scripts", are you elected by someone ? COme on !
If is there is still someone on wikipedia using Moldovian language to write in cyrillic, he/she could use mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org.
Brion Vibber stated on Nov 26, 2008 that a change of domain " mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org" will be made. 3 months passed, nothing happened.
You don't even understand how insulting is for us to see our language in cyrllic, and we're independent for 20 years, 20 years ago we made this change ! I'm shock how ignorant you can be.
Here is a facebook group Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775 and WE have 2027 supporters and growing.
If you can't rename it, JUST DELETE IT.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the subdomain
"mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was stated
in
november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni
heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus: http://amire80.livejournal.com
"We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
correction of my previous mail..
/s/When you say "I write english with latin scripts",
When you say "We write english with latin scripts"
/s/Here is a facebook group
It's a facebook petition On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
Hoi, This is an old old story with the same arguments repeated again and again.
- The language is called Moldovan, but Moldovan is also spoken in
Transnistria
- In Transnistria they write Cyrillic
- In Transnistria the Moldovan constitution is not recognised
- ..
Yes, the Moldovan Wikipedia has been locked for quite some time. Yes, there is nobody who can be considered to be a native speaker who wants to work on the mo.wikipedia. There is a project with some 400 articles. Too any more words have been spend already, more then can be found in the 400 articles. It is a distraction.
In my opinion, this project should either not be left in limbo as it currently is. Either open it up for editing or find a new home for it. When a new home cannot be found, delete it and keep it for who wants it. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com
The script of Moldovan language is stated in the constitution of Moldova country, a country where moldovian nation is living, and it is LATIN.
For whom?
Yes, it's us, Moldovian people represented by Moldovian constitution, a democratic country, this is not me who choose to use latin script, IT'S
US
WHO CHOOSED. When you say "I write english with latin scripts", are you elected by someone ? COme on !
If is there is still someone on wikipedia using Moldovian language to
write
in cyrillic, he/she could use mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org.
Brion Vibber stated on Nov 26, 2008 that a change of domain " mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org" will be made. 3 months
passed,
nothing happened.
You don't even understand how insulting is for us to see our language in cyrllic, and we're independent for 20 years, 20 years ago we made this change ! I'm shock how ignorant you can be.
Here is a facebook group Delete "moldovan" Wikipedia
http://apps.facebook.com/causes/39775 and WE have 2027 supporters and growing.
If you can't rename it, JUST DELETE IT.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <amir.aharoni@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/1/11 Jon Harald Søby jhsoby@gmail.com:
Also, I'd like to know what's the progress of renaming the
subdomain
"mo"
to
"mo-cyrl" mo.wikipedia.org -> mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org, as was
stated
in
november last year, an important issue for us.
For whom?
Did they have an election and chose Mr. Cetateanu Moldovanu as their representative?
-- Amir Elisha Aharoni
heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat: http://aprenent.wordpress.com | rus:
http://amire80.livejournal.com
"We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace." - T. Moore _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
- The language is called Moldovan, but Moldovan is also spoken in
Transnistria
- In Transnistria they write Cyrillic
perfect, then http://mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org/ is for them
- In Transnistria the Moldovan constitution is not recognised
Since when a country recognize a constition of another country ?
If sir Brion Vibber could tell us what's the ETA of the renaming things, that would be wonderful.
Cetateanu;
Brion and his staff are extremely busy individuals. Also, renaming a wiki takes quite a bit of time and if not done at the correct pace would be messy. I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is key.
Peace;
Geoffrey Plourde
________________________________ From: Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org; brion@wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 7:44:47 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
- The language is called Moldovan, but Moldovan is also spoken in Transnistria - In Transnistria they write Cyrillic
perfect, then http://mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org/ is for them
- In Transnistria the Moldovan constitution is not recognised
Since when a country recognize a constition of another country ?
If sir Brion Vibber could tell us what's the ETA of the renaming things, that would be wonderful. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is key.
cough, please be patient! It's only been three years since mo.wikipedia was closed. The case will be handled as soon as one of our service team members becomes available.
Marcus Buck
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we? Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more help.
Could this thread be killed, please. We will never be able to get rid of this, starting all over again once per month.
Cheers Yaroslav
Yaroslav M. Blanter hett schreven:
Could this thread be killed, please. We will never be able to get rid of this, starting all over again once per month.
Cheers Yaroslav
It's natural, that unresolved issues come up again. The solution is to solve the issue. It will never come up again after that...
Marcus Buck
"Unresolved"... the wiki is closed already. Sure, it hasn't reached the "resolution" that this particular person wants... but hey, it could be open.
2009/1/16 Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org:
Yaroslav M. Blanter hett schreven:
Could this thread be killed, please. We will never be able to get rid of this, starting all over again once per month.
Cheers Yaroslav
It's natural, that unresolved issues come up again. The solution is to solve the issue. It will never come up again after that...
Marcus Buck
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
________________________________ From: Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:45:31 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is key.
cough, please be patient! It's only been three years since mo.wikipedia was closed. The case will be handled as soon as one of our service team members becomes available.
Marcus Buck
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we? Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more help.
_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
I'd support that. Absolutely. But on the other side I still think, that the tech department of the Foundation is understaffed. At the moment solutions already existing are often not implemented cause of backlogging. I requested an extension be activated on my home wiki in May and its still NEW on bugzilla and unresolved. And there was almost no support for the Interlanguage extension, although it would fundamentally improve the interwiki process. We would do much better, if the tech people had more time to care about things.
Marcus Buck
I agree with you entirely. I believe that a decent portion of the backlog results from the fact that for its size, the Foundation has too few developers. One way to use funds would be to look into developing a Wikiversity course to train developers, to provide more volunteers to take the load off. By implementing a reward system for vanity extensions, it would make sure that people understand that there is a cost to make them, decrease such requests, and provide incentive to be a developer.
________________________________ From: Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:45:24 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
I'd support that. Absolutely. But on the other side I still think, that the tech department of the Foundation is understaffed. At the moment solutions already existing are often not implemented cause of backlogging. I requested an extension be activated on my home wiki in May and its still NEW on bugzilla and unresolved. And there was almost no support for the Interlanguage extension, although it would fundamentally improve the interwiki process. We would do much better, if the tech people had more time to care about things.
Marcus Buck
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Hoi, If we want to decrease the backlog, we should not invest in more extensions. We should invest in capacity to assess the extensions that are waiting. We should invest in capacity to triage our problems, we should invest in fixing the problems that we know off.
We have asked the public to help us, they gave us the 6 million dollar we asked for. We asked the Stanton Foundation and they gave us 890.000 dollar to improve the usability of the English language Wikipedia. There is software like Semantic MediaWiki, software to localise the Commons categories to name but two that are not considered at all because of a lack of capacity to assess what is out there.
If anything we need developers that take care of THAT backlog. If anything we need senior developers who will assist in making the software mature enough so that it can be used on our production servers. When you consider that the Tool server tools are not localised, and when you realise that as a consequence these tools have only a limited use you will agree with me that we first of all need to strengthen the fundamentals before we put another floor on the existing building. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
From: Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:45:31 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is
key.
cough, please be patient! It's only been three years since mo.wikipedia was closed. The case will be handled as soon as one of our service team members becomes available.
Marcus Buck
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we? Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more help.
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Well what I proposed encouraged people to prioritize. For example, if 100 people donate 5 dollars each for semantic mediawiki, it might encourage an outside developer to work on it, freeing up staff and saving money.
________________________________ From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:47:20 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Hoi, If we want to decrease the backlog, we should not invest in more extensions. We should invest in capacity to assess the extensions that are waiting. We should invest in capacity to triage our problems, we should invest in fixing the problems that we know off.
We have asked the public to help us, they gave us the 6 million dollar we asked for. We asked the Stanton Foundation and they gave us 890.000 dollar to improve the usability of the English language Wikipedia. There is software like Semantic MediaWiki, software to localise the Commons categories to name but two that are not considered at all because of a lack of capacity to assess what is out there.
If anything we need developers that take care of THAT backlog. If anything we need senior developers who will assist in making the software mature enough so that it can be used on our production servers. When you consider that the Tool server tools are not localised, and when you realise that as a consequence these tools have only a limited use you will agree with me that we first of all need to strengthen the fundamentals before we put another floor on the existing building. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
From: Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:45:31 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is
key.
cough, please be patient! It's only been three years since mo.wikipedia was closed. The case will be handled as soon as one of our service team members becomes available.
Marcus Buck
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we? Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more help.
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Hoi, You have no clue how much money has already been invested in Semantic MediaWiki. This is not where the problem is. The problem is in having capacity to evaluate what is there. The capacity to evaluate and integrate functionality is key. It is for this reason that I am so happy that a tool is being developed for the testing of extensions. This is intended to automate some of the work and thereby make it easier to adopt extensions.
A scheme that I have been thinking of is: get us 50K$, split it between WMF and SMW, have the WMF evaluate and assess code with SMW as its priority and have SMW fix the issues that come up from the evaluation.
NB Five hundred dollars does not cut it. A *really *good commercial programmer may bill you for this amount for a days work. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com
Well what I proposed encouraged people to prioritize. For example, if 100 people donate 5 dollars each for semantic mediawiki, it might encourage an outside developer to work on it, freeing up staff and saving money.
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:47:20 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Hoi, If we want to decrease the backlog, we should not invest in more extensions. We should invest in capacity to assess the extensions that are waiting. We should invest in capacity to triage our problems, we should invest in fixing the problems that we know off.
We have asked the public to help us, they gave us the 6 million dollar we asked for. We asked the Stanton Foundation and they gave us 890.000 dollar to improve the usability of the English language Wikipedia. There is software like Semantic MediaWiki, software to localise the Commons categories to name but two that are not considered at all because of a lack of capacity to assess what is out there.
If anything we need developers that take care of THAT backlog. If anything we need senior developers who will assist in making the software mature enough so that it can be used on our production servers. When you consider that the Tool server tools are not localised, and when you realise that as a consequence these tools have only a limited use you will agree with me that we first of all need to strengthen the fundamentals before we put another floor on the existing building. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
From: Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:45:31 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is
key.
cough, please be patient! It's only been three years since mo.wikipedia was closed. The case will be handled as soon as one of our service team members becomes available.
Marcus Buck
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we? Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more
help.
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On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com wrote:
NB Five hundred dollars does not cut it. A *really *good commercial programmer may bill you for this amount for a days work.
$500/day isn't so much. Experienced contractors in programming can bill well upwards of $1000/day (I know this from experience).
Maybe 500 was a bad example, but I meant that by having people offer rewards for extensions, we can have them developed/evaluated faster.
________________________________ From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 11:07:00 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Hoi, You have no clue how much money has already been invested in Semantic MediaWiki. This is not where the problem is. The problem is in having capacity to evaluate what is there. The capacity to evaluate and integrate functionality is key. It is for this reason that I am so happy that a tool is being developed for the testing of extensions. This is intended to automate some of the work and thereby make it easier to adopt extensions.
A scheme that I have been thinking of is: get us 50K$, split it between WMF and SMW, have the WMF evaluate and assess code with SMW as its priority and have SMW fix the issues that come up from the evaluation.
NB Five hundred dollars does not cut it. A *really *good commercial programmer may bill you for this amount for a days work. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com
Well what I proposed encouraged people to prioritize. For example, if 100 people donate 5 dollars each for semantic mediawiki, it might encourage an outside developer to work on it, freeing up staff and saving money.
From: Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 10:47:20 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Hoi, If we want to decrease the backlog, we should not invest in more extensions. We should invest in capacity to assess the extensions that are waiting. We should invest in capacity to triage our problems, we should invest in fixing the problems that we know off.
We have asked the public to help us, they gave us the 6 million dollar we asked for. We asked the Stanton Foundation and they gave us 890.000 dollar to improve the usability of the English language Wikipedia. There is software like Semantic MediaWiki, software to localise the Commons categories to name but two that are not considered at all because of a lack of capacity to assess what is out there.
If anything we need developers that take care of THAT backlog. If anything we need senior developers who will assist in making the software mature enough so that it can be used on our production servers. When you consider that the Tool server tools are not localised, and when you realise that as a consequence these tools have only a limited use you will agree with me that we first of all need to strengthen the fundamentals before we put another floor on the existing building. Thanks, GerardM
2009/1/16 Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.com
Well if we want to decrease the backlog, we could suggest that people put up money for desired extensions.... I know its come up before and been rejecte, but it might attract people to develop stuff.
From: Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:45:31 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
Geoffrey Plourde hett schreven:
I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is
key.
cough, please be patient! It's only been three years since mo.wikipedia was closed. The case will be handled as soon as one of our service team members becomes available.
Marcus Buck
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we? Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more
help.
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On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Marcus Buck me@marcusbuck.org wrote:
We got 6 million bucks, ain't we?
First of all, I hate how people say this. :-) We have had a budget drafted that required $6 million, we achieved that -- that doesn't mean we just have $6 million lying around to do whatever we want with it. It wouldn't have been budgeted in if it wasn't going to be used.
Perhaps we should extend our tech staff a little bit. (Looking at the Bugzilla backlog, looking at the many features we are waiting for since years [global preferences for example], etc.) I don't suggest that Brion and the tech staff do a bad job. I'm sure they are doing their best. But obviously they need more help.
Yes, if you follow the Job openings you'll see that there are a few technology positions open: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Job_openings. There's one general one and two Stanton Grant-related ones.
Also, if you read more on the page you'll see: "We are also likely to continue to expand our technical team in the coming year. If you are interested in working for us, please review our past Software Developer and System Administrator...While we do not have any technology openings right now, we would like to engage in dialog with people who are as passionate as we are."
So yeah, they're actively seeking help.
Ok.. I'll write next month then.
Keep up the good work and all the best.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.plrd@yahoo.comwrote:
Cetateanu;
Brion and his staff are extremely busy individuals. Also, renaming a wiki takes quite a bit of time and if not done at the correct pace would be messy. I am sure he will handle the rename as soon as he can, but patience is key.
Peace;
Geoffrey Plourde
From: Cetateanu Moldovanu cetateanumd@gmail.com To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org; brion@wikimedia.org Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 7:44:47 AM Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Language codes to rename
On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijssen@gmail.comwrote:
- The language is called Moldovan, but Moldovan is also spoken in
Transnistria
- In Transnistria they write Cyrillic
perfect, then http://mo-cyrl.wikipedia.org/ is for them
- In Transnistria the Moldovan constitution is not recognised
Since when a country recognize a constition of another country ?
If sir Brion Vibber could tell us what's the ETA of the renaming things, that would be wonderful. _______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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