Yeah, Casey is correct --- basically, what I was saying is that there are other avenues than public mailing lists, and that there are people ready and willing to pay attention if something is wrong.
Thanks, Sue ------Original Message------ From: Casey Brown Sender: Casey Brown To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: Sue Gardner GMail Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Money, politics and corruption Sent: 14 Jul 2010 18:20
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.com wrote:
Anyone? Looks like it applies only to employees. http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Whistleblower_Policy "entity with whom Wikimedia Foundation Inc has a business relationship" includes chapters?
I'm sure she was mentioning it in spirit -- basically "you can see we're interested in whistleblowers and have this protection/policy already in place for our employees; anyone else should feel free to report any issues they think exist as well".
As a temporary resident of Chicago, I would like to think I have a vague understanding of corruption. Why on earth would it even be worthwhile to corruptly influence an independent volunteer boot-strap operation like a Wikimedia chapter?
I mean, what the hell are you even talking about?
No one needs to mention names or specific acts, but I'm having a hard time conceiving what chapter corruption would even look like. Picking certain popular members to go to events? Milos seems to have something more sinister in mind; an infiltration by wicked corporations.
Frank
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 5:39 AM, Cool Hand Luke User.CoolHandLuke@gmail.com wrote:
As a temporary resident of Chicago, I would like to think I have a vague understanding of corruption. Why on earth would it even be worthwhile to corruptly influence an independent volunteer boot-strap operation like a Wikimedia chapter?
I mean, what the hell are you even talking about?
No one needs to mention names or specific acts, but I'm having a hard time conceiving what chapter corruption would even look like. Picking certain popular members to go to events? Milos seems to have something more sinister in mind; an infiltration by wicked corporations.
Fortunately, it is not about wicked corporations, at least it is not in the narrow sense. We haven't come into that position. But, I can expect that it could be a problem in the future if we won't handle present issues properly. It is about more simple kinds of problems, which you think that they are less likely.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
Fortunately, it is not about wicked corporations, at least it is not in the narrow sense. We haven't come into that position. But, I can expect that it could be a problem in the future if we won't handle present issues properly. It is about more simple kinds of problems, which you think that they are less likely.
I think what now?
I just want hypothetical (or non-hypothetical) example of alarming chapter corruption. I'm having a hard time picturing what you're worried about. Something concerns you and I don't understand what it is. Please explain.
Frank
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 6:04 AM, Cool Hand Luke User.CoolHandLuke@gmail.com wrote:
I just want hypothetical (or non-hypothetical) example of alarming chapter corruption. I'm having a hard time picturing what you're worried about. Something concerns you and I don't understand what it is. Please explain.
From the disambiguation page [[Corruption]], the most important
phenomena for us are [[Corporate corruption]] and [[Political corruption]].
From the [[Corporate corruption]] particularly interesting for us are:
[[white-collar crime]], [[fraud]], [[bribery]], [[embezzlement]] and [[forgery]].
From the [[Political corruption]] particularly interesting for us are:
[[bribery]], [[nepotism]], [[kleptocracy]], [[political patronage]], [[cronyism]], [[extortion]] and [[coercion]].
Okay, this thread has intrigued me and I thought the answers would pan out and it seems to have gone in various directions, but it was initiated by Milos so I'll focus on what I perceive to be his problem: Corruption (through careerism, nepotism, political functions) and the have versus have nots.
My reading between the lines is that this has to do with how scholarships and other financial assistance allowed some to attend Wikimania and "live it up" as the slang goes, versus those that attended on their own dime and didn't have the resources to take part in the social, after hours functions that are the lifeblood of networking. If this is the case, the issue that is had is allegations of personal rather than professional reasons that some got to attend and had the resources, based on financing, to party.
Being that glib about it may seem like I am making light of the issue, rest assured I am not. Feelings of being an outsider when one is surrounded by like minded people is not very constructive to say the least, and it causes factions. Now, I've never been able to attend Wikimania, and am unlikely ever to be able to. If you'd like factionalization and saying that the has countries have it better than the have nots, it's much more feasible for someone to attend something on their continent no matter the pocket change when you get there. Having attended many, many conferences it sounds like business as usual. Personally, I always found it practical to hang out at the hotel bar instead of going into town for productivity.
Without going into details, Milos, am I off base with this as at least part of your concern at Wikimania?
2010/7/15 Keegan Peterzell keegan.wiki@gmail.com:
Okay, this thread has intrigued me and I thought the answers would pan out and it seems to have gone in various directions, but it was initiated by Milos so I'll focus on what I perceive to be his problem: Corruption (through careerism, nepotism, political functions) and the have versus have nots.
My reading between the lines is that this has to do with how scholarships and other financial assistance allowed some to attend Wikimania and "live it up" as the slang goes, versus those that attended on their own dime and didn't have the resources to take part in the social, after hours functions that are the lifeblood of networking. If this is the case, the issue that is had is allegations of personal rather than professional reasons that some got to attend and had the resources, based on financing, to party.
Just about the scholarship. As far as I know there were two scholarships - one provided by WMF and the one combined, provided by Polish and Russian chapters. The WMF scholarship committee was quite international, and at least what I heard from one Polish Wikipedian, who was a member of that committee there were clear and resonable conditions of choosing the best candidates.
In case of Polish-Russian scholarship we in fact accepted all candidates who applied and fullfiled basic requirements (language skills and proved commitement to Wikimedia projects). Polish-Russian scholarship was open to all, and except Russians and Polish Wikimedians several Ukrainians and one from Czech Republic took advatange of them.
Tomasz Ganicz, 15/07/2010 10:11:
Just about the scholarship. As far as I know there were two scholarships - one provided by WMF and the one combined, provided by Polish and Russian chapters. The WMF scholarship committee was quite international, and at least what I heard from one Polish Wikipedian, who was a member of that committee there were clear and resonable conditions of choosing the best candidates.
I think that nobody doubts about it. Still, I know some people who were not granted the scholarship and didn't actually understand why (and don't complain about that). Can the Scholarships review committee share the chosen criteria? The review process can't be ideal due to the huge number of application (2500!!), and I suppose that editcounts or even user groups had to be used: it's completely fair, but I would like to know some details. It could also be useful for future Wikimania organizers, if the process is currently not documented even in private wikis.
In case of Polish-Russian scholarship we in fact accepted all candidates who applied and fullfiled basic requirements (language skills and proved commitement to Wikimedia projects). Polish-Russian scholarship was open to all, and except Russians and Polish Wikimedians several Ukrainians and one from Czech Republic took advatange of them.
That's interesting.
Nemo
Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote:
I think that nobody doubts about it. Still, I know some people who were not granted the scholarship and didn't actually understand why (and don't complain about that). Can the Scholarships review committee share the chosen criteria? The review process can't be ideal due to the huge number of application (2500!!), and I suppose that editcounts or even user groups had to be used: it's completely fair, but I would like to know some details. It could also be useful for future Wikimania organizers, if the process is currently not documented even in private wikis.
For the moment, here are the selection criteria that were applied during the application review process:
http://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships#Applicant_Selection_Cri...
These were originally on the Wikimania team planning wiki, and not kept private for any specific reason other than that there was no better place to put them.
A full report documenting the program, processes, results, and lessons learned will be published on meta in September. The report will be open for anyone's critique and recommendations on how things may be improved going forward.
-Sara
Sara Crouse, 15/07/2010 17:24:
For the moment, here are the selection criteria that were applied during the application review process:
http://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships#Applicant_Selection_Cri...
These were originally on the Wikimania team planning wiki, and not kept private for any specific reason other than that there was no better place to put them.
Thank you.
A full report documenting the program, processes, results, and lessons learned will be published on meta in September. The report will be open for anyone's critique and recommendations on how things may be improved going forward.
Great!
Nemo
Perhaps in future (for say, Haifa) it would be an idea if any chapter-based scholarships were put on hold until after the Foundation makes its choices? That way the systems could mesh, with people who don't quite meet the Foundation requirements/do but oh dear, we've already used up all our scholarships being forwarded to the chapter for its decision.
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Sara Crouse, 15/07/2010 17:24:
For the moment, here are the selection criteria that were applied during the application review process:
http://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships#Applicant_Selection_Cri...
These were originally on the Wikimania team planning wiki, and not kept private for any specific reason other than that there was no better place to put them.
Thank you.
A full report documenting the program, processes, results, and lessons learned will be published on meta in September. The report will be open for anyone's critique and recommendations on how things may be improved going forward.
Great!
Nemo
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 7/15/10 6:23 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
Perhaps in future (for say, Haifa) it would be an idea if any chapter-based scholarships were put on hold until after the Foundation makes its choices? That way the systems could mesh, with people who don't quite meet the Foundation requirements/do but oh dear, we've already used up all our scholarships being forwarded to the chapter for its decision.
This year, Wikimedia France voted to approve scholarships to go to Wikimania for a total budget of 5000 euros.
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was receiving the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations : - actually being at the conference :) - report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
------------
One could certainly state that we are from a rich country and that our scholarships are further digging the divide between rich and poor countries. I would refute that argument.
On the 27th of april, Wikimedia France also approved financial participation to help several chapters participate to the chapter meeting in Berlin. The total amount approved was 10 000 euros. Original chapters chosen to be supported were
* Wikimedia Argentina * Wikimedia Australia * Wikimedia Hong Kong * Wikimedia Macedonia * Wikimedia UK * Wikimedia Serbia (yes dear)
These chapters were chosen in a list of chapters-to-be-supported, with the names of the people expected as well as the amount required for each to come. The choice was made taking into account: 1) the total budget 2) the price of each plane ticket (we picked up on purpose first of all the most expensive tickets) 3) pick up on every continent available 4) and last, when final choice had to be made, indeed, according to the person-to-come
(disclaimer: due to the ash mess and a flood mess, some travels were cancelled, so some of the support might have gone to a chapter different than the one originally planned).
But bottom line.... 1) whether people came from rich or poor countries was irrelevant. What was relevant was what they would bring to the table 2) our choice was made in a master table handled by Wikimedia Deutschland... and that made sense to do it this way.
-------------
Lessons for next year Wikimania scholarship.
1) I think the French chapter was happy to have made that decision of offering scholarships for Wikimania this year. It came from the statement made at previous Wikimanias that hardly any French speaking person was attending. We meant to increase attendance and it was a success.
2) Whilst it was not discussed yet, postmortem should be made on that and we should check whether it will be relevant to do it again next year. Intuitively, I feel confortable saying that we will do it again.
3) I do not think being French should be a requirement. I however think being French speaking would please us (and the good news is that there are many French speaking countries)
4) We should however clarify our decision making process and include criteria, whatever those might be
5) And yes, though private data would be an issue to take into account, it would be nice to have a sort of "common" list of scholarship requests or at least one way to have those overlap so that the ones making request and being rejected are informed that other options might be feasible, or chapters are given the contact names of those rejected, and.... also to check that no one get dual funding (*)
I guess having Wikimania website listing all organizations providing scholarships would be a start :)
Ant
(*) jeee, finally found a way to get rich !
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo)nemowiki@gmail.comwrote:
Sara Crouse, 15/07/2010 17:24:
For the moment, here are the selection criteria that were applied during the application review process:
http://wikimania2010.wikimedia.org/wiki/Scholarships#Applicant_Selection_Cri...
These were originally on the Wikimania team planning wiki, and not kept private for any specific reason other than that there was no better place to put them.
Thank you.
A full report documenting the program, processes, results, and lessons learned will be published on meta in September. The report will be open for anyone's critique and recommendations on how things may be improved going forward.
Great!
Nemo
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 21/07/2010 01:57, Florence Devouard wrote:
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was receiving the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations :
- actually being at the conference :)
- report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
Out of curiosity, would contacting the french-speaking registered users of en. and fr. wikipedia have been a good advertisement strategy?
On 21 July 2010 10:00, Noein pronoein@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 21/07/2010 01:57, Florence Devouard wrote:
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was receiving the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations :
- actually being at the conference :)
- report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
Out of curiosity, would contacting the french-speaking registered users of en. and fr. wikipedia have been a good advertisement strategy?
We advertised it on the french Wikipedia of course, and on every french wikimedia project iirc. As long as on our blog and through social media.
Christophe
The attendance of French Wikipedians was certainly high; I travelled through to Gdansk with five or six (the "Why France/Britain sucks" conversations" were amusing). I think it's an excellent idea for individual chapters to distribute scholarships, but yes, there is a time element involved. I guess it isn't even necessarily needed for the Chapter scholarships to be issued afterwards; merely at a different time. Maybe before would work? That way you'd avoid the problem of not distributing all of it.
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Christophe Henner < christophe.henner@gmail.com> wrote:
On 21 July 2010 10:00, Noein pronoein@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 21/07/2010 01:57, Florence Devouard wrote:
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was receiving the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations :
- actually being at the conference :)
- report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
Out of curiosity, would contacting the french-speaking registered users of en. and fr. wikipedia have been a good advertisement strategy?
We advertised it on the french Wikipedia of course, and on every french wikimedia project iirc. As long as on our blog and through social media.
Christophe
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
On 7/21/10 1:37 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
The attendance of French Wikipedians was certainly high; I travelled through to Gdansk with five or six (the "Why France/Britain sucks" conversations" were amusing). I think it's an excellent idea for individual chapters to distribute scholarships, but yes, there is a time element involved. I guess it isn't even necessarily needed for the Chapter scholarships to be issued afterwards; merely at a different time. Maybe before would work? That way you'd avoid the problem of not distributing all of it.
It would also help if budget was approved at the beginning of the year so that it would be "visible" as early as January that money is left aside for such a use later in the year (it could also be mentionned during general assembly for example).
Alas...
Well, every year brings new improvements ;)
Ant
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Christophe Henner< christophe.henner@gmail.com> wrote:
On 21 July 2010 10:00, Noeinpronoein@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 21/07/2010 01:57, Florence Devouard wrote:
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was receiving the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations :
- actually being at the conference :)
- report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
Out of curiosity, would contacting the french-speaking registered users of en. and fr. wikipedia have been a good advertisement strategy?
We advertised it on the french Wikipedia of course, and on every french wikimedia project iirc. As long as on our blog and through social media.
Christophe
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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If wishes were fishes and all that. Still, it's July now; could budgets not get approved before January?
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Florence Devouard Anthere9@yahoo.comwrote:
On 7/21/10 1:37 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
The attendance of French Wikipedians was certainly high; I travelled
through
to Gdansk with five or six (the "Why France/Britain sucks" conversations" were amusing). I think it's an excellent idea for individual chapters to distribute scholarships, but yes, there is a time element involved. I
guess
it isn't even necessarily needed for the Chapter scholarships to be
issued
afterwards; merely at a different time. Maybe before would work? That way you'd avoid the problem of not distributing all of it.
It would also help if budget was approved at the beginning of the year so that it would be "visible" as early as January that money is left aside for such a use later in the year (it could also be mentionned during general assembly for example).
Alas...
Well, every year brings new improvements ;)
Ant
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Christophe Henner< christophe.henner@gmail.com> wrote:
On 21 July 2010 10:00, Noeinpronoein@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 21/07/2010 01:57, Florence Devouard wrote:
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was
receiving
the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations :
- actually being at the conference :)
- report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
Out of curiosity, would contacting the french-speaking registered users of en. and fr. wikipedia have been a good advertisement strategy?
We advertised it on the french Wikipedia of course, and on every french wikimedia project iirc. As long as on our blog and through social media.
Christophe
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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yes, as long as it is next year budget ;)
ant
On 7/21/10 4:28 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
If wishes were fishes and all that. Still, it's July now; could budgets not get approved before January?
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:41 PM, Florence DevouardAnthere9@yahoo.comwrote:
On 7/21/10 1:37 PM, Oliver Keyes wrote:
The attendance of French Wikipedians was certainly high; I travelled
through
to Gdansk with five or six (the "Why France/Britain sucks" conversations" were amusing). I think it's an excellent idea for individual chapters to distribute scholarships, but yes, there is a time element involved. I
guess
it isn't even necessarily needed for the Chapter scholarships to be
issued
afterwards; merely at a different time. Maybe before would work? That way you'd avoid the problem of not distributing all of it.
It would also help if budget was approved at the beginning of the year so that it would be "visible" as early as January that money is left aside for such a use later in the year (it could also be mentionned during general assembly for example).
Alas...
Well, every year brings new improvements ;)
Ant
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Christophe Henner< christophe.henner@gmail.com> wrote:
On 21 July 2010 10:00, Noeinpronoein@gmail.com wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 21/07/2010 01:57, Florence Devouard wrote:
This decision was approved on the 24th of may and was advertised in various (french speaking) venues. The scholarship only proposed two different types of packages: 250 euros or 500 euros. There was no requirement of nationality or location, though we would probably have focused on French participants. A commission was
receiving
the scholarship requests and approving them. Scholars had two main obligations :
- actually being at the conference :)
- report after the conference
In spite of sufficient time, not all scholarships were distributed, which is quite unfortunate. However, the number of French participants had never been as high in a Wikimania.
Out of curiosity, would contacting the french-speaking registered users of en. and fr. wikipedia have been a good advertisement strategy?
We advertised it on the french Wikipedia of course, and on every french wikimedia project iirc. As long as on our blog and through social media.
Christophe
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