Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
--------------------------------------------------------------
Whereas the Board,
* recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that their work is the very reason of their success, * values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers, * is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation, * considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
1. The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
1) Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
3. The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
9. The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
I have serious concerns with Durova being considered as a representative of the en.wikipedia community. Perhaps you missed the massive drama over the past months that resulted in her losing her administrator status. I do not feel that anyone who has so recently felt one of the most significant backlashes the community has ever given as a unified body, should be selected to speak for that community. That's not just a slap in the face; it's a kick in the balls at the same time.
-Dan On Mar 31, 2008, at 7:46 PM, effe iets anders wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
I have one important amendment to propose: That the name of Lodewijk Gelauf, Effe iets anders (Main project: nl.wikipedia) be added to the list.
Lodewijk has been the one to carry the ball to get this proposal to where it is. Many of us have talked about this for years, but he has done the work. I understand that the only reason why his name was omitted from the list was because of his ethical concerns about self-nomination. It is an honour to nominate him.
Ec
effe iets anders wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia Volunteers,
- Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects,
- Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of
the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within Wikimedia.
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
I'll happily second that.
-----Original Message----- From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Ray Saintonge Sent: 01 April 2008 06:22 To: effeietsanders@gmail.com; Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Provisional Volunteer Council - proposal sent to the Board
I have one important amendment to propose: That the name of Lodewijk Gelauf, Effe iets anders (Main project: nl.wikipedia) be added to the list.
Lodewijk has been the one to carry the ball to get this proposal to where it is. Many of us have talked about this for years, but he has done the work. I understand that the only reason why his name was omitted from the list was because of his ethical concerns about self-nomination. It is an honour to nominate him.
Ec
effe iets anders wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers,
- Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects,
- Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of
the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia.
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
_______________________________________________ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
While I'm absolutely aware that this is not a vote, I would like to second Ray's proposal. Effeietsanders has indeed been a driving force behind this issue and I would very much appreciate it if his voice could also be heard at this stage, I am sure that he has many valuable ideas and suggestions to bring in. For these reasons, I join Ray/Ec in his nomination.
By the way: As this has been brought up here, I am also of the opinion that the projects listed next to the nominated PVC members do not mean, that these nominees are representatives or ambassadors of the project. In my case, I have listed de.wikipedia as my primary project, as it was the project I started in and indeed for quite some time the only project I was involved with. However, I am today not really that active anymore in German Wikipedia, even my OTRS work focuses at the moment more on en.wp matters, so the German Wikipedians might quite rightly object to me being labelled a representative of their project. In my view, these project indications should be viewed in terms of geographical, cultural and linguistic origin, although as Effeietsanders pointed out, diversity could (and probably should) have been larger. However, it is very difficult to reach out to communities who are not normally active in "international discussions" (which at the moment is equal to "readers and writers of foundation-l") and if there are no nominations, it is difficult to proceed.
Michael
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
I have one important amendment to propose: That the name of Lodewijk Gelauf, Effe iets anders (Main project: nl.wikipedia) be added to the list.
Lodewijk has been the one to carry the ball to get this proposal to where it is. Many of us have talked about this for years, but he has done the work. I understand that the only reason why his name was omitted from the list was because of his ethical concerns about self-nomination. It is an honour to nominate him.
Ec
effe iets anders wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia Volunteers,
- Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects,
- Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of
the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within Wikimedia.
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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Hoi, It is not a vote, and as Danny expressed that I would be so against all this, I would like to express satisfaction when Lodewijk is the token Dutch influence in all this "nonsense". Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:33 PM, Michael Bimmler mbimmler@gmail.com wrote:
While I'm absolutely aware that this is not a vote, I would like to second Ray's proposal. Effeietsanders has indeed been a driving force behind this issue and I would very much appreciate it if his voice could also be heard at this stage, I am sure that he has many valuable ideas and suggestions to bring in. For these reasons, I join Ray/Ec in his nomination.
By the way: As this has been brought up here, I am also of the opinion that the projects listed next to the nominated PVC members do not mean, that these nominees are representatives or ambassadors of the project. In my case, I have listed de.wikipedia as my primary project, as it was the project I started in and indeed for quite some time the only project I was involved with. However, I am today not really that active anymore in German Wikipedia, even my OTRS work focuses at the moment more on en.wp matters, so the German Wikipedians might quite rightly object to me being labelled a representative of their project. In my view, these project indications should be viewed in terms of geographical, cultural and linguistic origin, although as Effeietsanders pointed out, diversity could (and probably should) have been larger. However, it is very difficult to reach out to communities who are not normally active in "international discussions" (which at the moment is equal to "readers and writers of foundation-l") and if there are no nominations, it is difficult to proceed.
Michael
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 6:22 AM, Ray Saintonge saintonge@telus.net wrote:
I have one important amendment to propose: That the name of Lodewijk Gelauf, Effe iets anders (Main project: nl.wikipedia) be added to the list.
Lodewijk has been the one to carry the ball to get this proposal to where it is. Many of us have talked about this for years, but he has done the work. I understand that the only reason why his name was omitted from the list was because of his ethical concerns about self-nomination. It is an honour to nominate him.
Ec
effe iets anders wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the
candidates
that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in
the
proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet
accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers,
- Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects,
- Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of
the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia.
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as
it
deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council
in
the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and
commons.wikimedia )
Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource,
en.wikipedia)
Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal ( http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html). It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a
shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
-Dan On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal ( http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html) . It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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Hi Dan, all,
thanks for the feedback. First of all, let me make clear that this is for me not the *final* list or something, the Board still has to decide over the resolution at all, including the list of candidates. After that, the PVC has the opportunity to fill some gaps, such as South America, Africa, Asia and developers, to improve the spectrum of volunteers.
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size. This because this is a matter of opinion, and people disagree on sizes etc. Please note that it is much easier to increase the size afterwards (especially if you believe all those emails you get all the time) then to decrease. I think the current list ensures a workable provisional council, that can come up with a broad carried advice. Not because every language or continent is represented, but because many opinions on this respect are represented. The mentioned main projects are, as michael mentioned correctly, intended to show from which corner people are coming. How they were "raised" in the community, so to speak.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
2008/4/1, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
-Dan
On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal ( http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html) . It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
-Dan On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:07 AM, effe iets anders wrote:
Hi Dan, all,
thanks for the feedback. First of all, let me make clear that this is for me not the *final* list or something, the Board still has to decide over the resolution at all, including the list of candidates. After that, the PVC has the opportunity to fill some gaps, such as South America, Africa, Asia and developers, to improve the spectrum of volunteers.
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size. This because this is a matter of opinion, and people disagree on sizes etc. Please note that it is much easier to increase the size afterwards (especially if you believe all those emails you get all the time) then to decrease. I think the current list ensures a workable provisional council, that can come up with a broad carried advice. Not because every language or continent is represented, but because many opinions on this respect are represented. The mentioned main projects are, as michael mentioned correctly, intended to show from which corner people are coming. How they were "raised" in the community, so to speak.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
2008/4/1, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
-Dan
On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal ( http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html) . It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders <effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong
say in changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to
serve as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3
vote of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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Hoi, Why Wikiversity ? Why not Wiktionary ? Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
-Dan On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:07 AM, effe iets anders wrote:
Hi Dan, all,
thanks for the feedback. First of all, let me make clear that this is for me not the *final* list or something, the Board still has to decide over the resolution at all, including the list of candidates. After that, the PVC has the opportunity to fill some gaps, such as South America, Africa, Asia and developers, to improve the spectrum of volunteers.
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size. This because this is a matter of opinion, and people disagree on sizes etc. Please note that it is much easier to increase the size afterwards (especially if you believe all those emails you get all the time) then to decrease. I think the current list ensures a workable provisional council, that can come up with a broad carried advice. Not because every language or continent is represented, but because many opinions on this respect are represented. The mentioned main projects are, as michael mentioned correctly, intended to show from which corner people are coming. How they were "raised" in the community, so to speak.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
2008/4/1, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
-Dan
On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal (
http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html )
. It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders <
effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong
say in changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to
serve as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3
vote of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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Wiktionary too. But Wikiversity doesn't ever get enough love anywhere.
-Dan On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:17 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Why Wikiversity ? Why not Wiktionary ? Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 3:11 PM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
-Dan On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:07 AM, effe iets anders wrote:
Hi Dan, all,
thanks for the feedback. First of all, let me make clear that this is for me not the *final* list or something, the Board still has to decide over the resolution at all, including the list of candidates. After that, the PVC has the opportunity to fill some gaps, such as South America, Africa, Asia and developers, to improve the spectrum of volunteers.
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size. This because this is a matter of opinion, and people disagree on sizes etc. Please note that it is much easier to increase the size afterwards (especially if you believe all those emails you get all the time) then to decrease. I think the current list ensures a workable provisional council, that can come up with a broad carried advice. Not because every language or continent is represented, but because many opinions on this respect are represented. The mentioned main projects are, as michael mentioned correctly, intended to show from which corner people are coming. How they were "raised" in the community, so to speak.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
2008/4/1, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
-Dan
On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal (
http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html )
. It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders <
effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and
that their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong
say in changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to
serve as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the
Wikimedia Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers
within Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3
vote of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
Well, I'm from Wikibooks and I'm very much in tune with Wikiversity as well. I've got a lot of friends at WV, and am in regular contact. This may not be "perfect" representation, but at least WV won't be forgotten. Wikinews and Wiktionary are also conspicuously missing from this list, and I'll do what I can to ensure that they aren't forgotten either.
--Andrew Whitworth
I am moarning for Wikiquote which is so completely forgotten that anyone forget it has not been mentioned in that list.
I don't complaint however that it is forgotten. I presume simply none from Wikiquote community is unwilling to improve. When Eia came with the idea to form a provisional committee, I poked some friends on the project. They seem to decide not to spare their time. It is their/our matter, not the organizer.
But of course I'll more than happy to see someone who knows Wikiquote on that committee ...
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Andrew Whitworth wknight8111@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
Well, I'm from Wikibooks and I'm very much in tune with Wikiversity as well. I've got a lot of friends at WV, and am in regular contact. This may not be "perfect" representation, but at least WV won't be forgotten. Wikinews and Wiktionary are also conspicuously missing from this list, and I'll do what I can to ensure that they aren't forgotten either.
--Andrew Whitworth
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On 01/04/2008, Aphaia aphaia@gmail.com wrote:
But of course I'll more than happy to see someone who knows Wikiquote on that committee ...
Well Aphaia, might you be interested? :-)
Sorry no, I'm pretty occupied with real life concerns in a coming few months.
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 12:21 AM, Majorly axel9891@googlemail.com wrote:
On 01/04/2008, Aphaia aphaia@gmail.com wrote:
But of course I'll more than happy to see someone who knows Wikiquote on that committee ...
Well Aphaia, might you be interested? :-)
-- Alex (Majorly)
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Majorly
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Aphaia wrote:
I am moarning for Wikiquote which is so completely forgotten that anyone forget it has not been mentioned in that list.
I don't complaint however that it is forgotten. I presume simply none from Wikiquote community is unwilling to improve. When Eia came with the idea to form a provisional committee, I poked some friends on the project. They seem to decide not to spare their time. It is their/our matter, not the organizer.
But of course I'll more than happy to see someone who knows Wikiquote on that committee ...
I do well to confess from the beginning that on a personal level I have never been a big supporter of Wikiquote, but I acknowledge that others call it home, and that needs to be respected.
The fundamental conflict here is on the one hand we would love to have every perspective represented, but on the other providing that representation detracts from what someone really loves to do on his home project. We cannot demand that Wikiquote provide a representative, but we do need to find ways for the _views_ there to be represented. The same holds true for any other small project. Just look at the total list of all those who participated in the entire Wikicouncil discussion on any side, and it is still very small.
When we ask, "'Whom' do the Council members represent?" we may very well be asking the wrong question. Asking about _what_ someone represents would be a more important question. The ability to consider a different point of view fairly is more important than a blind dedication to making one's own point of view prevail. When a vote results in a successful victory with the support of between 50 and 51%, is democracy really served by giving the victors an exclusive power over subsequent events?
Ideas, especially new ones, deserve greater attention. Anthere dares to introduce new ideas, or ideas that show a deep grasp of the philosophical underpinnings of our movement, yet the most remarkable result of her recent "Barnraising" thread starter has been complete silence. Maybe others, like me, are just launched into dreamscapes by such essays, but in that I have difficulty in believing my own theory.
Ec
Andrew Whitworth wrote:
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:11 AM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
Well, I'm from Wikibooks and I'm very much in tune with Wikiversity as well. I've got a lot of friends at WV, and am in regular contact. This may not be "perfect" representation, but at least WV won't be forgotten. Wikinews and Wiktionary are also conspicuously missing from this list, and I'll do what I can to ensure that they aren't forgotten either.
I think that most of the people on the candidates list have been around for a significant time. I have not been busy in Wiktionary in the last while, preferring instead to devote my limited time to Wikisource, Nevertheless, I was one of the first persons to participate in Wiktionary, and I have not completely abandoned my hopes for its success. I'm sure that all the candidates have had more involvement than what is suggested by the listing of a "Main project."
There were time constraints in relation to the resolution. If the general idea was going to have any hope of succeeding, a reasonably functional resolution had to be presented to the Board for its upcoming meeting, and that had to include a list of first members. If there are apparent omissions, it's not because we wish to shut out any opinions, but may simply be that the appropriate representative was not immediately apparent or did not wish to serve. With the passage of the resolution in the present form, there will still be the opportunity to add more members, particularly where someone is found to fill one of the glaring holes in the group's membership.
The most important task for the PVC will be building trust across a wide range of projects and opinions. The eventual Volunteer Council needs to be both small enough to be functional and big enough to ensure that the widest possible range of views is considered. It needs to develop the confidence of the communities that it is not a cabal intent on overrunning hard-won rights, and the respect of the Board that it is not an assemblage of loose cannons about to bring down the entire WMF through reckless actions.
Ec
Cormac Lawler?
-----Original Message----- From: foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:foundation-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Dan Rosenthal Sent: 01 April 2008 15:12 To: effeietsanders@gmail.com; Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Provisional Volunteer Council - proposal sent tothe Board
Could I make one more suggestion then? Please try to get someone from Wikiversity on that council?
-Dan On Apr 1, 2008, at 9:07 AM, effe iets anders wrote:
Hi Dan, all,
thanks for the feedback. First of all, let me make clear that this is for me not the *final* list or something, the Board still has to decide over the resolution at all, including the list of candidates. After that, the PVC has the opportunity to fill some gaps, such as South America, Africa, Asia and developers, to improve the spectrum of volunteers.
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size. This because this is a matter of opinion, and people disagree on sizes etc. Please note that it is much easier to increase the size afterwards (especially if you believe all those emails you get all the time) then to decrease. I think the current list ensures a workable provisional council, that can come up with a broad carried advice. Not because every language or continent is represented, but because many opinions on this respect are represented. The mentioned main projects are, as michael mentioned correctly, intended to show from which corner people are coming. How they were "raised" in the community, so to speak.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
2008/4/1, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
-Dan
On Apr 1, 2008, at 3:57 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
Hoi, Our dear friend Danny Wool pontificated that I would oppose this proposal (
http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-seems-that-effeietsanders-has.html)
. It is for this reason only that I do not want to disappoint him and give a reaction.
What is on the table is that a group of self appointed bosses are going to investigate if and how a wiki coucil can be started. This group is likely to come to the conclusion that it would be a good thing. As long as there is nothing to see, there is not much for me to comment on. The fact that they take the initiative is the best reason why they may succeed.
I have not been invited in this group of self appointed bosses, this is a good thing as I am busy enough as it is. I have written in the past extensively on the subject, I spoke with some of the bosses so my view is known. With Milos and Pathoschild part of this effort, I am sure that the relevance of linguistic and cultural diversity will get some attention (one of my hot buttons)
From my perspective, this group is large enough to still be effective, a shame that they are likely to come with the suggestion to have a council that is many times this size and destroying its effectiveness in the process. Thanks, GerardM
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 1:46 AM, effe iets anders
<effeietsanders@gmail.com
wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong
say in changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to
serve as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia. 4. The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3
vote of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:07 AM, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Dan, all,
thanks for the feedback. First of all, let me make clear that this is for me not the *final* list or something, the Board still has to decide over the resolution at all, including the list of candidates. After that, the PVC has the opportunity to fill some gaps, such as South America, Africa, Asia and developers, to improve the spectrum of volunteers.
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size. This because this is a matter of opinion, and people disagree on sizes etc. Please note that it is much easier to increase the size afterwards (especially if you believe all those emails you get all the time) then to decrease. I think the current list ensures a workable provisional council, that can come up with a broad carried advice. Not because every language or continent is represented, but because many opinions on this respect are represented. The mentioned main projects are, as michael mentioned correctly, intended to show from which corner people are coming. How they were "raised" in the community, so to speak.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk
If the Board decides to go ahead with the Council then more members can be added.
In my discussions with Lodewijk and others, I stated that I feel that one of the jobs of the Council will be seeking out the opinions of users on Projects that have less frequent communication with the Foundation, staff, and other volunteers due to language issues. I think that this is key to us making sure that the Foundation is giving these Projects the support that they need so these Project thrive.
Sydney
effe iets anders wrote:
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size.
Regardless of the words "perfect" and "ideal", you still use the word "representation", but so far you have failed to explain in what way these names "represent" anything more than themselves.
The proposed resolution starts out with the high value of input from the community of volunteers, then a list of names is proposed for a (provisional) council, but it is not obvious how this council creates input from any comminity of volunteers. What's obvious is that it creates input from these individuals. The rest really needs to be explained.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
effe iets anders wrote:
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size.
Regardless of the words "perfect" and "ideal", you still use the word "representation", but so far you have failed to explain in what way these names "represent" anything more than themselves.
Maybe that's all it is, and all it can be. The provisional council is just a group of volunteers with relatively diverse language and project backgrounds, who are going to try to work out the logistics of the final council. As far as I'm aware, this provisional council doesn't have any "power" or "authority" or even "lasting importance". All it is supposed to do is set the logistic background for a real representative council. If all goes extremely well, the provisional council could disappear forever within weeks. I'm not entirely sure I see the point in arguing about the specifics of things like "representation" when the body so so temporary and ephemeral.
The proposed resolution starts out with the high value of input from the community of volunteers, then a list of names is proposed for a (provisional) council, but it is not obvious how this council creates input from any comminity of volunteers.
Well, maybe that is an issue that needs to be addressed by these provisional council members individually. I personally put a high premium on communication and openness, so I expect to be in regular contact with community members to get a broad input on these issues. I can't speak for anybody else, of course, but I like to think that other members of this council will do the same. I think that people are overestimating the amount work that this provisional council needs to do.
--Andrew Whitworth
My opinion is that the discussion list of PVC should be this list, foundation-l. PVC should take care about preparing documents for talking here and for summarizing them. Everything between should be discussed here. (Maybe PVC should define a couple of its own meta-rules without public and to present it; but I am not sure about that. I see non-public talks of PVC only as a possibility for talking without noise because of productivity. All *important* things should be solved publicly.)
At this phase, we need people who are able to spend some time and organize talk here. So, yes, we need Lodewijk, but I am not sure how many people are needed now for representation. While we will talk (here) about a (more or less) real representative body, we (PVC) are not a representative body. But, it is true that we represent different ideas of organization.
Because of that, I would call all people who are interested in this issue to watch this list and to participate whenever they think that they have to say something. I am sure that we will consider every constructive input.
So, while the real representation should be left for the Volunteer Council, this list is representing the community/ies at some level.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Andrew Whitworth wknight8111@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Lars Aronsson lars@aronsson.se wrote:
effe iets anders wrote:
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size.
Regardless of the words "perfect" and "ideal", you still use the word "representation", but so far you have failed to explain in what way these names "represent" anything more than themselves.
Maybe that's all it is, and all it can be. The provisional council is just a group of volunteers with relatively diverse language and project backgrounds, who are going to try to work out the logistics of the final council. As far as I'm aware, this provisional council doesn't have any "power" or "authority" or even "lasting importance". All it is supposed to do is set the logistic background for a real representative council. If all goes extremely well, the provisional council could disappear forever within weeks. I'm not entirely sure I see the point in arguing about the specifics of things like "representation" when the body so so temporary and ephemeral.
The proposed resolution starts out with the high value of input from the community of volunteers, then a list of names is proposed for a (provisional) council, but it is not obvious how this council creates input from any comminity of volunteers.
Well, maybe that is an issue that needs to be addressed by these provisional council members individually. I personally put a high premium on communication and openness, so I expect to be in regular contact with community members to get a broad input on these issues. I can't speak for anybody else, of course, but I like to think that other members of this council will do the same. I think that people are overestimating the amount work that this provisional council needs to do.
--Andrew Whitworth
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On 01/04/2008, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
My opinion is that the discussion list of PVC should be this list, foundation-l.
The whole point of a council is to have a small group that can discuss things more constructively that a large one, such as the members of this list. If the discussion is happening on this list, then it will just be a discussion among members of this list. The council list could be readable by the public, but posting to it needs to be restricted to council members otherwise there isn't actually a council.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 7:34 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dalton@gmail.com wrote:
On 01/04/2008, Milos Rancic millosh@gmail.com wrote:
My opinion is that the discussion list of PVC should be this list, foundation-l.
The whole point of a council is to have a small group that can discuss things more constructively that a large one, such as the members of this list. If the discussion is happening on this list, then it will just be a discussion among members of this list. The council list could be readable by the public, but posting to it needs to be restricted to council members otherwise there isn't actually a council.
Maybe I didn't express my thought well. I think that the process of making some PVC's conclusion should be:
1. PVC prepares a document for talk (at the closed list or at the read-only list by the public), maybe even with possible conclusions. 2. Public discussion on foundation-l with time limit (let's say, 7 days per topic; however, I don't think that it would be necessary to talk on foundation-l only about one topic at the same time). 3. PVC gathers opinions and makes final proposal per topic (again, at the closed list or at the read-only list by the public).
BTW, I like the idea of read-only list by the public for internal PVC's list.
Milos Rancic wrote:
My opinion is that the discussion list of PVC should be this list, foundation-l. PVC should take care about preparing documents for talking here and for summarizing them. Everything between should be discussed here. (Maybe PVC should define a couple of its own meta-rules without public and to present it; but I am not sure about that. I see non-public talks of PVC only as a possibility for talking without noise because of productivity. All *important* things should be solved publicly.)
A closed mailing list, and closed wiki will still be essential to the functionality of both the provisional and operational Councils. If the discussions of the VC become too open there is a strong risk that every attempt by individual members at consensus building will be publicly interpreted as a hard position of the entire Council. In reality all that the member may be suggesting is a word that could better express an idea.
There is also the likelihood that Council members will be exposed to personal information. This could happen when a new person is nominated for membership, and a member may have specific and serious doubts about that candidate. I don't think that it is at all helpful to discuss that kind of thing in public when so much of the comments are speculative, or others are making a show of their personal dislike of some individual.
The margins of the public and the private will need to be developed. Clearly we need to take direction from the communities about the general issues, and when proposals have been drafted the communities need to have a time to react before the proposals are enacted. If the outcry is serious the Council will often need to reconsider its decisions. When proposals have been presented at a generally accessible and well advertised site, and no responses are received at all, Council should be safe to conclude that there is consent.
At this phase, we need people who are able to spend some time and organize talk here. So, yes, we need Lodewijk, but I am not sure how many people are needed now for representation. While we will talk (here) about a (more or less) real representative body, we (PVC) are not a representative body. But, it is true that we represent different ideas of organization.
Because of that, I would call all people who are interested in this issue to watch this list and to participate whenever they think that they have to say something. I am sure that we will consider every constructive input.
Yes, but the Council members will still need to build techniques for improved communication with the general editorship.
Ec
effe iets anders wrote:
I never claimed, and will not claim that this is a perfect representation, nor that it is ideal with respect to size.
Regardless of the words "perfect" and "ideal", you still use the word "representation", but so far you have failed to explain in what way these names "represent" anything more than themselves.
The proposed resolution starts out with the high value of input from the community of volunteers, then a list of names is proposed for a (provisional) council, but it is not obvious how this council creates input from any comminity of volunteers. What's obvious is that it creates input from these individuals. The rest really needs to be explained.
-- Lars Aronsson (lars@aronsson.se) Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
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My understanding is that one of the purposes of the Provisional Council would be to understand what words "council" and "representation" mean in this context.
Cheers, Yaroslav
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
I'm under the impression, mistaken as it may be, that the role of this council is small. we're going to be looking to set things like the size and composition of the final council. We are going to determine the specifics of how a council should operate, set up the first "elections" or whatever for members, and then we are done.
Having this preliminary council be much larger is just going to add complexity to the whole process. The faster we answer the relevant problems, the faster we can install a true representative council. I'm highly interested in project diversity, and I'm also highly sympathetic to Gerard M's goals of language diversity as well. If these things can be satisified in a reasonable way, we all win. If not, maybe it will not be worthwhile for us to create a wikicouncil in the first place.
--Andrew Whitworth
Andrew said:
Having this preliminary council be much larger is just going to add complexity to the whole process.
And I couldn't agree more. Until "what this council does" is defined, it's hard to decide anything as a large group. This is precisely why this proposal has never moved this far forward before, is because there are too many people discussing it. This touches on a minor scalability flaw with doing things by "consensus," but I digress.
Hopefully, a small group tasked with this can produce results where the wider community cannot. In a sense, I see a comparison with the elections committee. If the entire community were tasked with things such as suffrage, entry requirements, etc., the elections wouldn't happen on a timely scale. Same with this Wikicouncil.
-Chad
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 9:12 AM, Andrew Whitworth wknight8111@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 8:47 AM, Dan Rosenthal swatjester@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree, I think that this council (the provisional one) should be larger, regardless of whether the final council's size is adjusted or not.
I'm under the impression, mistaken as it may be, that the role of this council is small. we're going to be looking to set things like the size and composition of the final council. We are going to determine the specifics of how a council should operate, set up the first "elections" or whatever for members, and then we are done.
Having this preliminary council be much larger is just going to add complexity to the whole process. The faster we answer the relevant problems, the faster we can install a true representative council. I'm highly interested in project diversity, and I'm also highly sympathetic to Gerard M's goals of language diversity as well. If these things can be satisified in a reasonable way, we all win. If not, maybe it will not be worthwhile for us to create a wikicouncil in the first place.
--Andrew Whitworth
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Lodewijk,
Thank you for your work on establishing the provisional volunteer council.
I share your hope that we can attract some more volunteers from other regions so that we can better understand the needs of all the Projects.
Take care,
Sydney
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 7:46 PM, effe iets anders effeietsanders@gmail.com wrote:
Dear all,
I am very glad that the proposal for establishing a provisional volunteer council received such a lot support both on this list as in private conversations.
Since the request for candidates for the Provisional Volunteer Council, I received quite some nominations. However, unfortunately I have to admit that there were no (willing) candidates from some important regions amongst these. As I have to work with the candidates that were nominated, I was therefore unable to candidate someone from these regions.
I did try however, to get at least a few projects represented, and also a more technical person (from the developers side of the volunteer spectrum). Please find my final suggestion list below in the proposal (attached again for reference - only one minor spelling and layout changes).
Please note that this is a *proposed* resolution, and not yet accepted.
I know this list is not very long. And some area's are still missing in representation. However, I trust this group wholehearely, and suppose that they will make sure as a first thing to get at least one or more projects better represented (such as Wikinews or Wikiversity which have a very different character).
If you have major concerns with respect to this list of candidates, please send them to this list or communicate them to the Board (I am not sure which route is the best for that though). I will make no changes any more myself, but the Board is of course able to determine the list as it likes.
With kind regards,
Lodewijk Gelauff
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees. 2. Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia Volunteers,
- Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects,
- Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of
the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within Wikimedia.
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this. 5. Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person. 6. On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council. 7. Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
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All,
I decided to go back to the "source", as it were and re-read the resolution. Below are my concerns (inline). My conclusion is that the members below (as well as any others the Board wishes to appoint) should become a working group - not a provisional council - and determine what the heck a VC would do, clear it legally, and begin to define the process of appointing people to it. That does not, I believe, require a resolution this wordy or with this level of detail.
Philippe
--------------------------------------------------
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
No problem, agree totally.
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees.
Really? Thought we were creating a provisional council, which would recommend to the Board how to create a volunteer council. I'm uneasy about the board creating a volunteer council without knowing what it is to do. This resolution addresses what the VC will do, not separately what the PVC will do. I believe the resolution should be re-written with that in mind.
- Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes
of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
I have concerns with sub-heading 2, 3, and 4. For subheading two: (other than that the fact "recommending" is spelled wrong), I wonder what's wrong with the process we have now. For subheading three: I think this is treacherous legal territory. For subheading four: Again, I think this is treacherous legal territory. The words "Internet Service Provider" are carefully defined in law. Our current by-laws support that definition, and I simply don't know what impact the proposed council will have on that.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia.
Defined how? 1 edit? 1000? What about sysadmins who basically don't edit? If not defined here, who will define it? The latter part of the resolution specifies that the PVC will advise as to the composition of the VC, so why is this resolution doing it?
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this.
Except that we never created by resolution a PVC to report this. I'm uncomfortable with the PVC (selected, unapproved by the community beyond Foundation-l) approving charter and by-law changes. I'd be far more comfortable with such changes coming from the VC, once created. Yes, that means creating an essentially neutered body and then assigning them responsibility, but at least they're a community selected group and not a foundation-l and effe selected group.
- Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the
Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person.
Of course it will. Any rule-making binds people, even in selecting how to select people.
- On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it
deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council.
What if the PVC returns a Bad Thing? Isn't the Board empowered to say "no thanks, let's send this back for future study?" If the PVC returns something that's even illegal (obviously not on purpose, but I didn't see a Florida lawyer on the PVC), or would take us out of compliance with funding requirements, etc, I don't want this resolution to bind the Board to create and empower the VC - even "as it deems necessary", which doesn't give the Board a lot of wiggle room.
- Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially
compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
This one strikes me as a bit cabalish. I would think they could ask people to serve as advisors, but if the Board appoints a PVC, that ought to remain the PVC, just as when the Board appointed the election committee, we stayed the election committee, though we have the freedom to ask advice of experts (Tim Starling, for example, on technical issues).
Viable options for now.
*Have a board resolution to form a Wording Group to do a Feasibility Study for a Volunteer Council. The Working Group is tasked with presenting the alternatives to the Board. At a later date the Board will pass a resolution if a Volunteer Council is selected.
or
*Have the the board discuss this internally with the staff and make a decision about whether a Volunteer Council is a good idea. Might or might not include a firm decision on the structure of the Volunteer Council. If the decision is made to form a VC, some forms of the Council might be excluded (for legal or other reasons) prior to forming a Provincial Council that is tasked with getting the Volunteer Council started. This may or may not be completed at this Board Meeting.
or
*Delay the decision as too premature. If the transition from a volunteer run Foundation (with the Board running the operations) to one run by professional staff is not complete yet, are the professional staff able to advise the Board in a way that a good decision can be made?
or
Forget the proposed resolution and make a discussion of this topic a reoccurring topic without closure. (not a good choice)
Sydney Poore
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Philippe Beaudette philippebeaudette@gmail.com wrote:
All,
I decided to go back to the "source", as it were and re-read the resolution. Below are my concerns (inline). My conclusion is that the members below (as well as any others the Board wishes to appoint) should become a working group - not a provisional council - and determine what the heck a VC would do, clear it legally, and begin to define the process of appointing people to it. That does not, I believe, require a resolution this wordy or with this level of detail.
Philippe
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
No problem, agree totally.
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees.
Really? Thought we were creating a provisional council, which would recommend to the Board how to create a volunteer council. I'm uneasy about the board creating a volunteer council without knowing what it is to do. This resolution addresses what the VC will do, not separately what the PVC will do. I believe the resolution should be re-written with that in mind.
- Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes
of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
I have concerns with sub-heading 2, 3, and 4. For subheading two: (other than that the fact "recommending" is spelled wrong), I wonder what's wrong with the process we have now. For subheading three: I think this is treacherous legal territory. For subheading four: Again, I think this is treacherous legal territory. The words "Internet Service Provider" are carefully defined in law. Our current by-laws support that definition, and I simply don't know what impact the proposed council will have on that.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia.
Defined how? 1 edit? 1000? What about sysadmins who basically don't edit? If not defined here, who will define it? The latter part of the resolution specifies that the PVC will advise as to the composition of the VC, so why is this resolution doing it?
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this.
Except that we never created by resolution a PVC to report this. I'm uncomfortable with the PVC (selected, unapproved by the community beyond Foundation-l) approving charter and by-law changes. I'd be far more comfortable with such changes coming from the VC, once created. Yes, that means creating an essentially neutered body and then assigning them responsibility, but at least they're a community selected group and not a foundation-l and effe selected group.
- Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the
Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person.
Of course it will. Any rule-making binds people, even in selecting how to select people.
- On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it
deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council.
What if the PVC returns a Bad Thing? Isn't the Board empowered to say "no thanks, let's send this back for future study?" If the PVC returns something that's even illegal (obviously not on purpose, but I didn't see a Florida lawyer on the PVC), or would take us out of compliance with funding requirements, etc, I don't want this resolution to bind the Board to create and empower the VC - even "as it deems necessary", which doesn't give the Board a lot of wiggle room.
- Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially
compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
This one strikes me as a bit cabalish. I would think they could ask people to serve as advisors, but if the Board appoints a PVC, that ought to remain the PVC, just as when the Board appointed the election committee, we stayed the election committee, though we have the freedom to ask advice of experts (Tim Starling, for example, on technical issues).
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Working Group (not Wording Group)
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 6:34 PM, FloNight sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
Viable options for now.
*Have a board resolution to form a Wording Group to do a Feasibility Study for a Volunteer Council. The Working Group is tasked with presenting the alternatives to the Board. At a later date the Board will pass a resolution if a Volunteer Council is selected.
or
*Have the the board discuss this internally with the staff and make a decision about whether a Volunteer Council is a good idea. Might or might not include a firm decision on the structure of the Volunteer Council. If the decision is made to form a VC, some forms of the Council might be excluded (for legal or other reasons) prior to forming a Provincial Council that is tasked with getting the Volunteer Council started. This may or may not be completed at this Board Meeting.
or
*Delay the decision as too premature. If the transition from a volunteer run Foundation (with the Board running the operations) to one run by professional staff is not complete yet, are the professional staff able to advise the Board in a way that a good decision can be made?
or
Forget the proposed resolution and make a discussion of this topic a reoccurring topic without closure. (not a good choice)
Sydney Poore
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Philippe Beaudette philippebeaudette@gmail.com wrote:
All,
I decided to go back to the "source", as it were and re-read the resolution. Below are my concerns (inline). My conclusion is that the members below (as well as any others the Board wishes to appoint) should become a working group - not a provisional council - and determine what the heck a VC would do, clear it legally, and begin to define the process of appointing people to it. That does not, I believe, require a resolution this wordy or with this level of detail.
Philippe
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
No problem, agree totally.
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees.
Really? Thought we were creating a provisional council, which would recommend to the Board how to create a volunteer council. I'm uneasy about the board creating a volunteer council without knowing what it is to do. This resolution addresses what the VC will do, not separately what the PVC will do. I believe the resolution should be re-written with that in mind.
- Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes
of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
I have concerns with sub-heading 2, 3, and 4. For subheading two: (other than that the fact "recommending" is spelled wrong), I wonder what's wrong with the process we have now. For subheading three: I think this is treacherous legal territory. For subheading four: Again, I think this is treacherous legal territory. The words "Internet Service Provider" are carefully defined in law. Our current by-laws support that definition, and I simply don't know what impact the proposed council will have on that.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia.
Defined how? 1 edit? 1000? What about sysadmins who basically don't edit? If not defined here, who will define it? The latter part of the resolution specifies that the PVC will advise as to the composition of the VC, so why is this resolution doing it?
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this.
Except that we never created by resolution a PVC to report this. I'm uncomfortable with the PVC (selected, unapproved by the community beyond Foundation-l) approving charter and by-law changes. I'd be far more comfortable with such changes coming from the VC, once created. Yes, that means creating an essentially neutered body and then assigning them responsibility, but at least they're a community selected group and not a foundation-l and effe selected group.
- Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the
Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person.
Of course it will. Any rule-making binds people, even in selecting how to select people.
- On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it
deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council.
What if the PVC returns a Bad Thing? Isn't the Board empowered to say "no thanks, let's send this back for future study?" If the PVC returns something that's even illegal (obviously not on purpose, but I didn't see a Florida lawyer on the PVC), or would take us out of compliance with funding requirements, etc, I don't want this resolution to bind the Board to create and empower the VC - even "as it deems necessary", which doesn't give the Board a lot of wiggle room.
- Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially
compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
This one strikes me as a bit cabalish. I would think they could ask people to serve as advisors, but if the Board appoints a PVC, that ought to remain the PVC, just as when the Board appointed the election committee, we stayed the election committee, though we have the freedom to ask advice of experts (Tim Starling, for example, on technical issues).
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FloNight wrote:
Hello Sydney
Viable options for now.
*Have a board resolution to form a Wording Group to do a Feasibility Study for a Volunteer Council. The Working Group is tasked with presenting the alternatives to the Board. At a later date the Board will pass a resolution if a Volunteer Council is selected.
or
*Have the the board discuss this internally with the staff and make a decision about whether a Volunteer Council is a good idea. Might or might not include a firm decision on the structure of the Volunteer Council. If the decision is made to form a VC, some forms of the Council might be excluded (for legal or other reasons) prior to forming a Provincial Council that is tasked with getting the Volunteer Council started. This may or may not be completed at this Board Meeting.
As I already indicated in the email about the board meeting program, there is indeed a day dedicated to discuss such issues. I am not quite sure what will really come out of this day, in particular in the light of the potential legal consequences (which will need to be addressed before taking any final decision), but what I hope will come out of it is a clear and agreed upon (by board) list of "what needs to be fixed".
In short, first step is to find out the problems (IF there are problems) and second to figure out how to fix them. It may be entirely that the creation of a VC (as unique action point) is sufficient to fix what needs to be fixed. But more likely, several problems will need several different actions.
Ant
or
*Delay the decision as too premature. If the transition from a volunteer run Foundation (with the Board running the operations) to one run by professional staff is not complete yet, are the professional staff able to advise the Board in a way that a good decision can be made?
or
Forget the proposed resolution and make a discussion of this topic a reoccurring topic without closure. (not a good choice)
Sydney Poore
On Wed, Apr 2, 2008 at 5:50 PM, Philippe Beaudette philippebeaudette@gmail.com wrote:
All,
I decided to go back to the "source", as it were and re-read the resolution. Below are my concerns (inline). My conclusion is that the members below (as well as any others the Board wishes to appoint) should become a working group - not a provisional council - and determine what the heck a VC would do, clear it legally, and begin to define the process of appointing people to it. That does not, I believe, require a resolution this wordy or with this level of detail.
Philippe
Whereas the Board,
- recognizes the value of volunteers in Wikimedia projects and that
their work is the very reason of their success,
- values the volunteers' opinions and takes them into serious
consideration when discussing issues involving the volunteers,
- is of the opinion that these volunteers should have a strong say in
changes in the articles of incorporation and the bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation,
No problem, agree totally.
- considers a Volunteer Council a valuable intermediary between
volunteers and the Foundation, and as a good instrument to hear the voice of the volunteers:
it is hereby resolved that:
- The Board of Trustees hereby creates a Volunteer Council, to serve
as a valuable complement to the Staff, Advisory Board and Board of Trustees.
Really? Thought we were creating a provisional council, which would recommend to the Board how to create a volunteer council. I'm uneasy about the board creating a volunteer council without knowing what it is to do. This resolution addresses what the VC will do, not separately what the PVC will do. I believe the resolution should be re-written with that in mind.
- Without restricting the generality of this provision the purposes
of the Volunteer Council shall include:
- Offering advice and support on issues relevant to the Wikimedia
Volunteers, 2) Recommanding the opening or closure of Wikimedia projects, 3) Approving changes to the articles of incorporation or bylaws of the Wikimedia Foundation and 4) Assist in establishing a clear separation between the legal responsibilities of the Wikimedia Foundation as an Internet Service Provider and the community decisions for the Wikimedia Projects.
I have concerns with sub-heading 2, 3, and 4. For subheading two: (other than that the fact "recommending" is spelled wrong), I wonder what's wrong with the process we have now. For subheading three: I think this is treacherous legal territory. For subheading four: Again, I think this is treacherous legal territory. The words "Internet Service Provider" are carefully defined in law. Our current by-laws support that definition, and I simply don't know what impact the proposed council will have on that.
- The members from the Volunteer Council must be volunteers within
Wikimedia.
Defined how? 1 edit? 1000? What about sysadmins who basically don't edit? If not defined here, who will define it? The latter part of the resolution specifies that the PVC will advise as to the composition of the VC, so why is this resolution doing it?
- The Provisional Volunteer Council shall report to the Board no
later than September 1, 2008, which report shall include recommendations regarding the number and composition of the Volunteer Council, and how the members of the Council shall be chosen. Said report shall also include recommendations regarding the distribution of rights and responsibilities between the Board and Council, and any changes in the by-laws that may be necessary to implement this.
Except that we never created by resolution a PVC to report this. I'm uncomfortable with the PVC (selected, unapproved by the community beyond Foundation-l) approving charter and by-law changes. I'd be far more comfortable with such changes coming from the VC, once created. Yes, that means creating an essentially neutered body and then assigning them responsibility, but at least they're a community selected group and not a foundation-l and effe selected group.
- Except where it pertains to its own procedures, no decision of the
Provisional Volunteer Council shall bind any person.
Of course it will. Any rule-making binds people, even in selecting how to select people.
- On receipt of the said report the Board shall take such steps as it
deems necessary to confirm and empower the Volunteer Council, and provide for a transition of operations from the Provisional Volunteer Council.
What if the PVC returns a Bad Thing? Isn't the Board empowered to say "no thanks, let's send this back for future study?" If the PVC returns something that's even illegal (obviously not on purpose, but I didn't see a Florida lawyer on the PVC), or would take us out of compliance with funding requirements, etc, I don't want this resolution to bind the Board to create and empower the VC - even "as it deems necessary", which doesn't give the Board a lot of wiggle room.
- Members of the Volunteer Council will not be financially
compensated for their activity. On approval by the Board of Trustees expenses of the Provisional Volunteer Council and Volunteer Council in the fulfillment of their duties may be reimbursed. 8. The following people are hereby appointed as member of the Provisional Volunteer Council:
Michael Bimmler, Mbimmler (Main project: de.wikipedia) Yaroslav Blanter, Yaroslav Blanter (Main project: ru.wikipedia) Lise Broer, Durova (Main projects: en.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia ) Jesse Plamondon-Willard, Pathoschild (Main projects: en.wikisource and meta.wikimedia ) Sydney Poore, FloNight (Main project: en.wikipedia) Milos Rancic, Millosh (Main project: sr.wikipedia) Ray Saintonge, Eclecticology (Main project: en.wikisource, en.wikipedia) Andrew Whitworth, Whiteknight (Main project: en.wikibooks) Michal Zlatkovsky, Timichal (Main project: cs.wikipedia)
- The members of the Provisional Volunteer Council may on a 2/3 vote
of all its members add such additional members as they may deem necessary and useful to their deliberations.
This one strikes me as a bit cabalish. I would think they could ask people to serve as advisors, but if the Board appoints a PVC, that ought to remain the PVC, just as when the Board appointed the election committee, we stayed the election committee, though we have the freedom to ask advice of experts (Tim Starling, for example, on technical issues).
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It would be very valuable for all the board members, and not just Florence Devouard, to speak up now, and express where they stand at the moment, in relation to the creation of a Council (if any), and how and what it should be assigned as its tasks.
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonavaro@gmail.com wrote:
It would be very valuable for all the board members, and not just Florence Devouard, to speak up now, and express where they stand at the moment, in relation to the creation of a Council (if any), and how and what it should be assigned as its tasks.
It is my understanding that discussion about a Volunteer Council will happen at the meeting. I'm not sure that the Board members are able to comment in detail now if they have not yet discussed the issue with other Board members and the professional staff yet.
Sydney
On 4/3/08, FloNight sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 8:23 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonavaro@gmail.com wrote:
It would be very valuable for all the board members, and not just Florence Devouard, to speak up now, and express where they stand at the moment, in relation to the creation of a Council (if any), and how and what it should be assigned as its tasks.
It is my understanding that discussion about a Volunteer Council will happen at the meeting. I'm not sure that the Board members are able to comment in detail now if they have not yet discussed the issue with other Board members and the professional staff yet.
Sydney
Eh? Come again? I don't see anything has prevented Florence Devouard from commenting... so why would the othe members be bound more stringently? It just doesn't make sense...
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
On 4/3/08, FloNight sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
It is my understanding that discussion about a Volunteer Council will happen at the meeting. I'm not sure that the Board members are able to comment in detail now if they have not yet discussed the issue with other Board members and the professional staff yet.
And just as a matter of interest, who appointed you the spokesperson for all the board members apart from Florence Devouard?
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
On Thu, Apr 3, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Jussi-Ville Heiskanen cimonavaro@gmail.com wrote:
On 4/3/08, FloNight sydney.poore@gmail.com wrote:
It is my understanding that discussion about a Volunteer Council will happen at the meeting. I'm not sure that the Board members are able to comment in detail now if they have not yet discussed the issue with other Board members and the professional staff yet.
And just as a matter of interest, who appointed you the spokesperson for all the board members apart from Florence Devouard?
Jussi-Ville Heiskanen, ~ [[User:Cimon Avaro]]
The board members that are reading this mailing list can weigh in as they desire, of course. I was offering a reason for why their comments might not be as valuable now as they would be after some discussion of the topic with other board members and the professional staff.
My personal preference was for this topic to be widely advertised in as many languages are possible so the Global Community was aware that there was a possibility that these changes might occur. My impression, after an email exchange with a new member of the professional staff, is that they were not aware of the issue enough to get involved yet and make this happen. Mike's comments here also indicate that he was not yet tasked with researching the legal implications of a VC on the Foundation. I think off the cuff remarks by Board members and staff will not be as valuable as well though out statements after the issue has been researched and discussed.
Sydney
Hi!
It would be very valuable for all the board members, and not just Florence Devouard, to speak up now, and express where they stand at the moment, in relation to the creation of a Council (if any), and how and what it should be assigned as its tasks.
First of all, I feel that it is a bit early yet to speak up - thats why we will be spending quite some time discussing how it may or may not work, how to make community involvement valuable, productive and efficient.
My 'previous' background in WMF organization was being part of the 'tech committee' - there we could come up with decisions, that were easy to approve by foundation at any level, let it be board, ED, etc. There were other successful committees that have volunteers working on various issues. Some committees probably didn't function, some were lacking.
Now the reason committees could work was that they were glued together by work done together, so coming up with constructive decisions was easy. Let it be technologies, language, chapters or communications - it is possible to build groups of people interested in certain policy making, and providing valuable feedback, suggestions and solutions eventually.
Board itself has wide umbrella of topics, but has ability to allocate quite a lot of face-to-face communication hours ( multiple meetings a year, multiple days for each event, long hours too). Besides, there're online activities where fast-track topics can be resolved.
So, the question arises, where in between does VC fit, and if it can take over work from committees or board, will it have enough of bandwidth for that. Sure, there will be lots of people, who are committed, but still, for decent decision making one has to make it regular, managed, structured, and even better - attended.
Is that possible? Will that provide value for community, foundation staff, board, and our users? Allow to come back at these questions in few weeks. As for legal oversight above the board, - it ends up being yet another layer of Trustees over other Trustees. I'd better keep it clear and simple :)
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