Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way over the top.
/jeblad
Countless editors, myself included, have complained about this over the years.
Regarding the WMF's response, actions speak louder than words.
On May 4, 2020, at 7:55 AM, John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way over the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered logging in?
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:56 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way over the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
We should create a rule that state that each discussion on wikimedia-l will end with "it's the fault of WMF!" ;)
The problem of viewing several banners at the same time happens because some community members still use Sitenotice. I think that it's a bad idea and that they should only use Centralnotice.
Pyb
Le 2020-05-04 17:26, Robert Fernandez a écrit :
I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered
logging in?
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:56 AM John Erling Blad
jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being
logged in, and so I did right now. I
got the usual banners, but this
time they popped up repeatedly in several
locations. This quickly
gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise.
Create one banner, and
stick with that. Several banners are simply way over
the top.
/jeblad
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Why do you ask? Unregistered readers are some kind of inferior creatures not worth of any attention? Registering an account and logging in is optional in Wikimedia.
Paulo
Robert Fernandez wikigamaliel@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 4/05/2020 à(s) 16:27:
I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered logging in?
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:56 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way
over
the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Do we already have a script or checkbox somewhere to disable banners?
Best,
Am Di., 5. Mai 2020 um 10:25 Uhr schrieb Paulo Santos Perneta < paulosperneta@gmail.com>:
Why do you ask? Unregistered readers are some kind of inferior creatures not worth of any attention? Registering an account and logging in is optional in Wikimedia.
Paulo
Robert Fernandez wikigamaliel@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 4/05/2020 à(s) 16:27:
I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered logging in?
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:56 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com
wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right
now. I
got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in
several
locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way
over
the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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I am nearly always logged in, but I also quite frequently open browser windows where I am not logged in. It might have something to do with who I am and what I do.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 5:27 PM Robert Fernandez wikigamaliel@gmail.com wrote:
I know this might sound crazy, but have you considered logging in?
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 10:56 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way
over
the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Hi John, thank you for the feedback.
The banners you see are continually changing, as we refine our designs based on feedback and efficacy. Donation banners are inherently disruptive, on any site. We try to minimize the annoyance whilst also maximizing the effectiveness in order to show as few banners as possible. It's a difficult balance, and feedback like yours, and the emails and comments we get from readers, help us out over time.
If you don’t want to see fundraising banners, there are a few options: You can login to Wikipedia, or click the "close" button in a banner, or visit our donor thank you page.[1]
If you're browsing in a private-window, this means the browser cannot remember (save in a cookie) that you clicked "close" or saw the banner already, hence you might be seeing more banners than most readers would.
Thanks again, Nick
[1] https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Thank_You
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:56 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way over the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
If you're browsing in a private-window, this means the browser cannot remember (save in a cookie) that you clicked "close" or saw the banner already, hence you might be seeing more banners than most readers would.
Worth mentioning each time it comes up: This seems like an instance of where tracking interactions w/ a given {IP, day} or {hash of browser fingerprint+IP+daily salt} would vastly outweigh the challenges. We can support private browsing, or any kind of browsing, without creating a painful experience [which is also... not likely to result in a donation].
One of the browsers are set up with forced session cookies and web storage, and also to block third parties. It breaks several features, also central login. I have reported it as an issue, but none has bothered to create a fix.
I believe it would be better to put the add on the lower part of the viewport, for all users, and for a limited time. Posting ads at random locations and disrupting (terrorizing) the readers is not a good idea.
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:04 AM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
If you're browsing in a private-window, this means the browser cannot remember (save in a cookie) that you clicked "close" or saw the banner already, hence you might be seeing more banners than most readers would.
Worth mentioning each time it comes up: This seems like an instance of where tracking interactions w/ a given {IP, day} or {hash of browser fingerprint+IP+daily salt} would vastly outweigh the challenges. We can support private browsing, or any kind of browsing, without creating a painful experience [which is also... not likely to result in a donation]. _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
This is a complaint about multiple banners on the same page.
I believe it would be better to put the add on the lower part of the viewport, for all users, and for a limited time. Posting ads at random locations
I couldn't figure out how to experience this feature -- can you share a screenshot?
It happen after a reboot where the browsers was reset. No, I did not take a screenshot.
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 7:43 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
This is a complaint about multiple banners on the same page.
I believe it would be better to put the add on the lower part of the viewport, for all users, and for a limited time. Posting ads at random locations
I couldn't figure out how to experience this feature -- can you share a screenshot? _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
My apologies John for my overly basic initial response. I wanted to note that regarding the banner design [1] we’ve definitely heard and taken the feedback on board as a team. Our design team discussed it on Monday and are exploring ways in which we might iterate on this in future tests.
We are always sympathetic about any potential impact that fundraising campaigns have on reader experience. This is why we use tools to limit impressions seen by readers, limit traffic or campaign length, and only send a limited number of emails to past donors. Most non-profits and pretty much every other online fundraising model involves running campaigns all year around, all the time.
Regarding this related issue both Sam and you brought up about the use of cookies in Central Notice and exploring the usage of hash id’s. It’s an interesting idea but certainly one fraught with potential public misconceptions along with ethical and technical challenges. Even with navigating those I’m not sure Fundraising is really the team to take a lead on this kind of device fingerprinting within MediaWiki and falls well outside our team’s area of responsibility and expertise. There are also big changes expected in the way browsers provide the necessary information so we are going to need to see how this comes out in the wash. Either way, we’ve created a phabricator ticket to facilitate future discussion about this topic.[2]
Thanks again for your recommendation. Please do continue to leave any feedback, ideas, or questions on the fundraising talk page.[3]
Best wishes, Nick
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=NASA&banner=B1920_0331_enWW_d... [2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T252123 [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fundraising
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 2:32 PM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
It happen after a reboot where the browsers was reset. No, I did not take a screenshot.
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 7:43 PM Samuel Klein meta.sj@gmail.com wrote:
This is a complaint about multiple banners on the same page.
I believe it would be better to put the add on the lower part of the viewport, for all users, and for a limited time. Posting ads at random locations
I couldn't figure out how to experience this feature -- can you share a screenshot? _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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Thanks, but I do know how to log in at Wikipedia, its about 15 years since I started editing.
This is a complaint about multiple banners on the same page.
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 11:02 PM Nick Wilson (Quiddity) < nwilson@wikimedia.org> wrote:
Hi John, thank you for the feedback.
The banners you see are continually changing, as we refine our designs based on feedback and efficacy. Donation banners are inherently disruptive, on any site. We try to minimize the annoyance whilst also maximizing the effectiveness in order to show as few banners as possible. It's a difficult balance, and feedback like yours, and the emails and comments we get from readers, help us out over time.
If you don’t want to see fundraising banners, there are a few options: You can login to Wikipedia, or click the "close" button in a banner, or visit our donor thank you page.[1]
If you're browsing in a private-window, this means the browser cannot remember (save in a cookie) that you clicked "close" or saw the banner already, hence you might be seeing more banners than most readers would.
Thanks again, Nick
[1] https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Thank_You
On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 7:56 AM John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com wrote:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way
over
the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
-- Nick "Quiddity" Wilson (he/him) Community Relations Specialist Wikimedia Foundation _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
In the first days of the pandemic, while trying to read info on my cellphone, where I'm usually logged out, I was bombed first with that ugly black thing signed by Katherine Maher, then in the next page I navigated to, with a red message directed at "my friend from Portugal", both of them asking money using the context of the pandemic. Which I found not only annoying but on a bad taste.
It seems to only affect wiki.en, but it is still quite annoying, as I read it often using the cellphone.
On the other hand, if WMF insists in that strategy, maybe it means it's working somehow? But there must be less aggressive ways of reaching to the people...
Best, Paulo
John Erling Blad jeblad@gmail.com escreveu no dia segunda, 4/05/2020 à(s) 15:56:
Often I surf Wikipedia without being logged in, and so I did right now. I got the usual banners, but this time they popped up repeatedly in several locations. This quickly gets extremely annoying, and I find it unwise. Create one banner, and stick with that. Several banners are simply way over the top.
/jeblad _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe
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